In today’s morning news roundup I want to focus on car supply, specifically on the Jeep brand, which recent data shows has a number of models that are sitting on dealer lots for long periods of time. The headline number is that America has a theoretical two-year strategic supply of Renegades. They’ll never take our Renegades! The Renegade, though, isn’t the only Jeep model with a lot of inventory.
Let’s jump into this, and then we’ll look at the relationship between inventory, sales, and availability.
The Cars And Trucks With The Most Inventory Right Now
Not to keep harping on this, but there is no new normal in the car market, there are only multiple abnormals. Supply chain issues still persist, the global and national economies are still in this strange liminal space between fine/not-fine, and automakers are frantically accelerating their electrification plans at the expense of some current gas models.
Take this bit of weirdness below:
This all comes from data from online service CarEdge, which scrapes publicly available dealer data and uses it to help consumers try to make informed car-buying choices. I first saw the data in a tweet from CarDealershipGuy (who is not named Michael, but has a newsletter worth reading). The big, big number is that Jeep stands at 753 days of supply.
I talked to CarEdge CEO Zach Shefska this morning to confirm the methodology and try and understand how they got to this number. Basically, CarEdge scrapes the vast majority of car dealership websites for listings every night. “We consider a vehicle listed for sale when we scrape it, and sold when it is taken offline,” he told me in a text. So if you take the days it takes to sell a car and apply that to the total number of lists you get the total inventory (this data comes from a scrape on May 24th).
While this is not a perfect number (for instance, Cars.com shows about 5,500 Renegades for sale and AutoTrader shows about 6,100) it does give a good relative sense of how the consumer retail market is performing. A lot of the data we get as journalists is filtered or skewed, so it’s fun to play with something a little more raw.
This Renegade news is not particularly surprising. A quick glance at vehicles for sale nationwide, show many Renegades listed sub-MSRP. It’s an older model, launched in 2015, that’s had only minor upgrades. Monthly sales have been dropping dramatically year-over-year, though some of that was likely supply-chain related. Jeep reports that they’re selling about 2,000 Renegades over a 45-day period, as opposed to the 456 shown here, but Jeep’s numbers include fleet sales and other factors that tend to inflate reported sales numbers. U.S.-spec Renegades are built in Italy and, given that Italian industrial/labor policy tends to encourage plants to stay running, I wouldn’t be surprised if that factors in here as well.
Is this actually a two-year supply? If the current prices and sales rate held, perhaps. The reality will probably be quite different. This data captures a moment in time and we’re about to enter the summer selling season, so the sales rate should naturally increase. Plus, as CarDealershipGuy points out, incentives are likely coming (if they aren’t already here). Still, I think that the data and concept here are solid enough to get a good sense of the market.
What else do we see? Silverado 4500s are not a surprise, because those vehicles were put under recall and a stop-sale order. I’d take guesses on Corsair as I’d imagine the PHEVs would be doing better thanks to the tax credit. All the rest of the vehicles are Stellantis vehicles and some make a lot of sense (the Jeep Cherokee is not market competitive, and neither is the Compass).
This is pure conjecture, but given the huge sales increases for 4xe vehicles due to tax credits (in particular the Wrangler 4xe) I do think Jeep likely cannibalized some of its own sales of vehicles like the Gladiator and higher-trim models of the Renegade. I’d have guessed that Pacifica Hybrids sales would have also been helped by tax credits, but it doesn’t seem so.
The other side of the market, where there’s barely any supply of vehicles, doesn’t surprise me at all:
This is as much a reflection of supply chain issues (especially with regard to vehicles like the Carnival) as it is in popularity. I called around to Subaru dealers locally at the end of last year to see what they had and the salespeople I spoke with were basically encouraging people to order cars since their inventory was extremely tight. It doesn’t seem like that’s completely changed (more on that later), especially with a new 2024 Subaru Impreza coming.
If you really wanted a Jeep Renegade for some reason, I suspect you’ll be able to snag one for a good price this summer.
Subaru COO Says Inventory Improving To ’35 Cars Per Store’
Well this is good timing, just this morning Automotive News posted an interview with Subaru COO Jeff Walters and addressed this very issue.
At this point last year, we’d wrap up a month and have 5,000 or 6,000 cars on the ground across our 639 retailers — less than 10 cars each, on average. Right now, we’re wrapping up the month with 20,000 to 23,000 cars. It’s still only an average of 35 cars per store, but it sure feels like a lot more. It’s still incredibly lean, though. The retailers are doing a great job, being very efficient with the inventory and the car lines, which are all still moving along very well for us.
According to Walters, their parent company is also allocating more cars going forward.
Tesla May Also Have A Lot Of Inventory
UPDATE: @Tesla is now offering up to a $3,020 discount off of new Model 3 inventory in the US.
— Sawyer Merritt (@SawyerMerritt) June 1, 2023
Tesla also resumed discounts on some Model Ys of nearly $600 off each. https://t.co/buQwKcQ7xC pic.twitter.com/qDW7uSFTMW
Tesla changing prices all the time isn’t headline news anymore as it’s just part of their strategy. While Jeep can play an incentives game with dealers, Tesla obviously cannot. These discounts appear to be primarily on the vehicles with the lithium iron phosphate batteries, which only qualify for the $3,750 tax credit because of their Chinese-made battery packs. According to Tesla inventory data from Matt Jung, Model 3 US inventory is at a three-year high.
(Editor’s Note: I just spent a week in the Bay Area in a base Model 3. If you can get one on a dirt-cheap lease deal, it’s pretty superb; I’m considering doing the same in the next few months. -PG)
Kias Still Selling At Record Numbers
Surprising absolutely no one who is paying attention, Kia’s excellent model line is paying off with their tenth straight month of year-over-year sales and their second highest monthly sales total ever. From their latest press release:
Fast-growing Kia America continues its hot streak as the brand posted total May sales of 71,497 units, marking the second-highest monthly sales total in company history and the tenth consecutive month of year-over-year sales increases. May sales were up 23-percent over the same period last year, with several models posting double- and even triple-digit sales increases, including: Seltos (+171-percent); Stinger (+102-percent); Carnival (+80-percent); Soul (+45-percent); Telluride (+35-percent); Sportage (+24-percent) and Sorento (+13-percent).
RIP Stinger, you were too good for this world.
The Big Question
Does anything on this list of cars with high inventory surprise you? Any theories, beyond the supply chain, for certain models? Let’s get nerdy.
Here’s an idea for Stellantis to goose their sales: Acquire or launch more brands! /s
Regarding vehicles with huge supply…
“This data captures a moment in time and we’re about to enter the summer selling season, so the sales rate should naturally increase.”
In the case of the Jeeps, I just checked the Jeep website and their pricing is the reason why the product isn’t moving.
Basically they still have pandemic-shortage-level pricing… but the pandemic and the associated shortages are gone now. So in the case of the Renegade, they’ll have to chop the price from a starting point currently at CAD$40,000 to more like CAD$25,000 to $30,000 for the base model.
Looks like they’ll have to go back to accepting *regular* profit margins instead of the OBSCENELY HIGH profit margins they’ve gotten drunk on.
Fuck ’em. The supply problem they have is entirely self-inflicted.
Regarding Kia… they’re one of the few brands left where you can still get a normal small car from… the Rio. And interestingly, it’s one of the vehicles that has a low amount of supply.
Could this be the beginning of the shift back to people buying cars… at least partially?
The Big Question:
“Does anything on this list of cars with high inventory surprise you?”
Not at all given that inventories have increased while at the same time, they refuse to cut the excessively high selling price that was set during the Covid-product-shortage period.
These vehicle sellers want consumers to believe that the product shortages still exist and make suckers keep paying through the nose.
And there are more and more people that are telling them to go get fucked and are hanging onto their current vehicles for longer.
“Any theories, beyond the supply chain, for certain models? Let’s get nerdy.”
Well the list of vehicles with a ton of supply are all technically ‘trucks’. And the market is flooded with trucks.
Meanwhile half of the vehicles on the short-supply list are actual CARS.
And my theory on this is that too many car makers have now gone too heavily into trucks and some rebalancing toward more cars and fewer truck/CUV models needs to happen.
This is bad news for brands like Jeep.
I’ve said it before, I could not be happier with the service I’ve gotten from my ’15 Renegade Latitude. I bought it new and it’s been practically flawless for nearly 8 years and 155,000 miles.
BUT – they won’t sell you one like mine anymore. From 2015-18 Jeep would sell you a Renegade Sport or Latitude, in 2 or 4 wheel drive, with the venerable 1.4L Turbo MultiAir engine (think 500 Abarth), and the equally venerable C635 six-speed manual transmission. This combination resulted in this practical little box also becoming engaging and fun to drive. Add the variable-dampening Koni struts it came with from the factory, and this short-wheelbase vehicle feels downright tossable.
Also…..I paid $22k out the door in August 2015, which I found totally reasonable.
When the Renegade first came out, about 75% of my driving was done in rental cars, and the Renegade was one of my favorite rental cars to get. Plucky, quirky, and, as you say, tossable and especially fun with the 6-speed. I considered picking one up and the local dealer had a 6-speed Latitude for $19k. The prices now are nuts.
It’s a real gem with the 6 speed. I saw someone locally who added mudflaps, rally lights, and did a wrap job which ended up being quite the looker. Mix that with the Abarth exhaust note and I’m sure it was a hoot to drive!
I just took a quick spin through online listings for new Renegades in my area. There’s a bunch of white ones for sale for about $30K. I could, and would, get in a new Forester for that if I were shopping in that segment.
The price creep on the Renegade is crazy. We got one years ago for my mother as her old lady car after cross-shopping an Equinox and some other small CUV I can’t even remember at this point, and it has been a perfectly cromulent vehicle for her. She puts old lady mileage on it, but other than a couple recalls and a set of tires, it’s been scheduled maintenance.
We just bought a pacifica hybrid. The inventory was a bit strange. There are plenty out there in a general sense, but allocations at specific dealers was really spotty. There were basically no ’23s on the ground and a surprising number of leftover ’22s, but none of the I think four dealers we talked to was interested in negotiating. Variations on “this is a hot model” and “no haggling: we work hard to go to market with a competitive price” and “who cares what the cash price is what lease payment can we talk you into”.
Of course the sticker price has gone up considerably each year over at least the last three model years, while being steadily decontented since the ’21 refresh. Most 22s have a few [feature] unavailable line-items on the sticker with attendant discounts. I think the 23s just have less stuff from the jump (like one fewer lit taillight element).
We ended up getting a ’22 from carmax with next to no miles for a bit less than the tax credit and $1,000 available Chrysler cash would have taken off the best price I saw on a new-new one. 24 hour test drive is a really good gimmick, plus the sales process was remarkably bullshit free.
I’m not surprised with any of the Jeeps sitting in inventory. The prices have gotten absurd for what you get compared to the competition. The Renegade has a starting MSRP of $28,300. Uh… what? For a compact crossover that hasn’t changed in almost a decade and isn’t particularly offroad capable? The Compass is newer but starts at the same price point, and the Cherokee starts at a whopping $37,695.
These are generic CUVs that are Jeep in name only. They don’t have the off road capability and classic aesthetic (Wrangler, Gladiator) or the luxury and space (Grand Cherokee) that merit a damn starting price of $28-39K. Why would anyone in their right mind buy a smaller Cherokee that’s barely been improved in a decade over a brand new, larger, more luxurious Grand Cherokee that starts at a mere $2,500 more?
Why would anyone in their right mind pay $30K+ for an ancient, unimpressive and not particularly capable Renegade or Compass when far superior compact and midsized crossovers from other manufacturers can be had for the same price or less? I’m not saying that they’re irredeemable cars, but they’re absolutely not worth the prices being asked of them and it’s unsurprising that consumers are voting with their feet. Slapping a Jeep badge on a generic crossover does not command nearly the price premium that Stellantis thinks it does. It’s honestly embarrassing that they don’t have any reasonably priced cars competitive with similar offerings. If rates continue to stay elevated, they’re in for a bad time in North America.
Stellantis Dealer here, the price creep is KILLING US. Renegades sold fine when they were well equipped and could be had for 25-26K. Now theyre in the low 30s with any kind of equipment. It’s still a cheerful little 4×4 with good personality, but now There is a MOUNTAIN of cars that are way better for way cheaper. It’s no suprise. They need to dig out the button that says “3k rebate and 0 percent for 72 months” and smack that button quick.
Saw this article. Saw Pacifica Hybrid. Got excited. Clicked on cars.com. Saw units on sale for $43k, $9k off of MSRP. Excitement died.
The price is all wrong!
That’s a good price. Take into account that they can still qualify for the full $7500 tax rebate if I’m not mistaken. The Hybrid models are all very well equipped. I have a 2018 that I bought new in 2019 and I paid about $41k and it took a lot of work to get to that number.
I still think over 40k is an expensive car. That minivan is excellent especially with stow and go but in my mind should be starting 30k and maybe 33k for the hybrid. Price perception wise
so does this mean my Gladiator will come down into semi-afforable territory in the fall once the ’24’s start to roll in?
Sort of off topic but kinda related since disposable income is necessary for car sales: a whole lot of federal student loans under the PSLF program were forgiven earlier this week. So money that was previously marked for paying loans can now go to other things. Like buying a new car. If car sales keep steady it possibly could be due to a lot of people suddenly finding a major financial millstone has been lifted.
Most of us haven’t been paying our loans for years as repayment was paused during the pandemic, seems like that money would have be reallocated already if it was ever going to be. Those that have not been forgiven will have to start paying again in a few months too.
I think the renegade styling is on point, and it’s a great scrappy looking small car that can be used for adventures outside the city, but the price was always absurd. 30k?! Or more with more options? That was when I quit caring, ever. Idk what they are now, but that seems insane.
A lack of fresh product and years of consistently mediocre to bad reviews for most of their models may be catching up to Stellantis.
In the case of Kia, I wonder how much of their recent sales increase can be attributed to current H/K owners trading in their older, theft prone and Theta II grenading models and remaining loyal to the brand? H/K has the good fortune of not having as heavy of competition in the $20-$35K space as they used to since GM and especially The Ford Truck Company have gone upmarket (those former Focus and Ecosport owners have to go somewhere)
Well, besides Lincoln’s general lack of brand recognition and Ford’s current build quality and reputation?
“It’s the price, stupid.”
The only PHEV version is the “Grand Touring” which stickers at a minimum $55k. Tack on the “Collection3” package, necessary to get “Co-Pilot360 2.1 Drive”, and you’re at $65,000 before taxes, title, registration, and dealer bullshit.
$65k for a tarted up Ford is literally Mercedes money – the GLC with a much nicer interior costs over $10,000 less! Nevermind the Cadillac XT4 or Lexus NX. (Don’t buy the Lexus though.)
Tell me your sales are tanking and you’re absolutely desperate to move a glut of inventory without telling me your sales are tanking and you’re badly oversupplied.
All those cars they’re shipping over from China? That’s because Chinese sales have been tanking. And over here? Turns out buying a megaphone so everyone knows you’re a racist, bigoted, and all around disgusting person with no redeeming qualities isn’t great for selling ‘socially conscious’ products. Whoda thunk?
Part of this is unquestionably that Hyundai has figured out their supplier situation faster and gotten a better handle on it than the competition. Simple as that. If you need a car and you go to the Kia dealer? They’re the only one that actually has the cars on the website. Want an EV6? I’ve got over 30 available in a 100 mile radius. I’ve got TWO high volume Porsche dealers nearby, and they don’t have 10 lease-friendly Macans between them. (My usual was normally doing north of 30 Macan leases a month.)
The other big part? Welcome to the impacts of greedflation and profiteering. Every other manufacturer has basically priced consumers out of anything they’d actually want. Nobody wants a Mitsubishi, nobody wants a base model Ford, Toyota’s cheap stuff only moved with lease deals that no longer exist ($323 a month to lease a base model Corolla, lol,) and so on. But Hyundai and Kia?
You sit in a new base model Elantra Hybrid, and you go “how’d they get it this nice for $26k?” It’s so far apart from a $26k Corolla, it’s not even a competition. Nicer materials, better construction, much better driving, and far more useful features. At $31k, the Limited Hybrid’s punching out the Camry Hybrid XSE – which needs to be pushed to $38k to get usable infotainment.
Hyundai offers “cheap” cars and figured out that it only works if they’re cars you don’t hate to be in. And with everyone eating an effective 8%+ pay cut? Guess what sells and what doesn’t.
I think it’s just a little unfair to compare a mild hybrid Merc with a PHEV Lincoln. The Lexus comparison is pretty apt, though, and now I have to ask why you say not to buy the Lexus. Admittedly, I don’t know that much about the NX, so this may be something really obvious to others.
The NX is a gussied up RAV-4. For normie buyers it doesn’t matter…but I know that for me and a lot of other enthusiasts if we’re dropping 60k on a luxury car we want it to be on a dedicated luxury platform…not an upsold economy car one. I can’t speak for everyone but it’s why I have no interest in the lower end Lexuses, the Mini platform BMWs, all the zombified MQB stuff Audi and Porsche use (keep that EA888 FAR AWAY FROM ME damn it), etc.
You’re getting ripped off by those cars and can get 90% of the experience by just buying top trim versions of the regular cars they’re based on….which don’t require you to pay a badge tax. But something like an Acura TLX Type S that’s on a platform that’s unique to Acura? Sign me right up!
Okay, that makes sense. I thought this was something I missed where they somehow screwed up a perfectly good RAV when they adapted it to Lexus.
If the Rav4 Hybrid drives anything like the NX350, then there is absolutely no hope for Toyota. How the people who brought us the Prius fucked up everything in the driveline this bad before completely compromising any reliability whatsoever is just… they should be where Mitsubishi is now.
And that’s a fate still far too generous for modern Toyota.
It would only be unfair if Ford wasn’t the ones trying to do that. Their whole deal with Lincoln is that it competes with Mercedes-Benz, BMW, etcetera. I never compare except along typical cross-shop (e.g. mid-price luxury sedans) or where the manufacturer themselves says they’re comparing and competing.
The Corsair is trying to compete with the NX, GLC, Q5, and Macan primarily. And, well. It just doesn’t.
As to the NX350 Hybrid? Absolutely unforgivably bad in every possible way. The transmission is jerkier than a litigation-covered Rav4, the suspension was tuned by Slinky(TM), the engine and road noise is about 500% higher than acceptable for a ‘luxury’ car, and it’s desperately underpowered.
I’m not saying that they aren’t pushing Lincoln as a Merc competitor. It’s the mild hybrid vs PHEV that makes it a little unfair. I’d cross-shop it against the Volvo XC60 and the BMW X5 PHEVs. Still not a great deal, but a more direct powertrain comparison.
The NA 4 cylinder that’s shared with the RAV-4 and in the NX350h and base 250 is downright agricultural as well. My father in law has a current RAV-4 non hybrid and the thing is horrendous to drive. The engine is wheezy, rough, peaky, loud, and ineffective. You need to rev it out to get the car to move at all and are treated to a symphony that might as well be farm equipment the entire time.
I was downright shocked at how much I disliked the engine in that car. The rest of it is inoffensive…it’s an appliance after all. But Toyota needed to ditch the NA 2.5 liter years ago. I don’t want to deal with a loud, raspy, rough engine in a damn midsized crossover.
When a 10 year old Rav4 still on the original, OE tires is superior in every way from build quality to NVH to drivability? While also being covered by a multi-billion dollar settlement over a known defectively designed transmission?
Yeah. The only thing Toyota reliably does is reliably insist that the actively burning car isn’t a problem because Toyotas are the most reliable things ever.
They also reliably convince people, so used Toyotas stay stupid expensive.
Also, thank you for the response re: the NX350h. I haven’t driven it or the 450h+, nor done a lot of research into them, so I didn’t know much about the driving experience.
rootwyrm said: “It’s the price, stupid.”
Yep, at least in regard to the Renegades. The cheapest one in my area is $29,395 and goes up to $34,055. They have 7 in stock. I wonder why…
Yup. I posted above echoing the same thing; I like the styling, and it’s honestly a cool little bull dog of a car, but the price is NUTS. Thing should start at 20ish, and stop at 25ish. 35 on a renegade is insane.
Yup… if they want to clear that inventory, they have to go back to pre-pandemic pricing… which means chopping the price by $10,000.
Right, but how many 20+ year old Corollas do you see, vs. 20+ year old Kias? There’s a reason that Kia is cheaper, and I don’t want to be on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere discovering why I valued that money more than quality.
(I understand not a lot of people buy new then drive a car for 20 years, so maybe that’s not a factor. Kias are probably better now than they were 20+ years ago as well. That said, my wife and I bought a Camry Hybrid when our first born was on the way 15 years ago, and I still daily drive it, and it’ll likely be that kid’s first car.)
I see a ton of old Hyundais and Kias on the road in my area. It’s been a long time since Korean cars justified the negative reputation for longevity that they somehow still have today.
Ah, and the “KOREAN CARS BAD” peanut gallery arrives right on time.
Guess what kiddo? I see a lot more Elantras than Camrys on the road by far and away. Because the Toyotas grenade the transmission irreparably or rot out the subframe or just fall apart first. And you will NEVER see a first gen Camry Hybrid on the road.
And nobody who knows anything about Hyundai is going to compare most 2003 Kias to anything but a pile of scrap metal. Hyundai wouldn’t do that. Because they knew they were building disposable appliances. They weren’t intending to build anything more than that. It was a cheap car meant to go 100,000 miles tops.
But you look at the third gen Elantras, and a disturbing number of them are still on the road. Often beat to shit with copious amounts of rot and duct tape inside and out. And refusing to quit running. Turns out building a ridiculously durable engine reduces warranty costs. (Hyundai’s official life expectancy for the Beta II engines is 300,000-400,000km or 186k-250k miles.)
Those XD Elantras were solid cars. The Beta had decent output and decent fuel efficiency for the time. People threw turbos onto them fairly reliably. Everything else broke around the engine!
No kidding, my brother still drives a 2005. Looks like shit, but takes all the abuse. I called my dad to chew him out for not getting an oil change on it for 20k miles . . . 7 years ago.
Solid and offensively fucking reliable. Literally the worst problem with XDs is Hyundai had not learned their lessons about road salt and the rear calipers were extremely prone to seizing up in a way that made them nearly impossible to remove. My mechanic won’t touch them any more because you’re never getting the rear axle back together on a 20 year old rustbelt car worth $2500 at it’s peak.
That and clocksprings wearing out are literally the ONLY problems I’m aware of on them. That, and making Big Altima Energy a fucking joke.
Yeah, that $26k Corolla might have a simple but durable interior, that will still look the same after 20 years and 200k miles.
I see so many nice Hyundais and Kias for sale, with seized 2.4 GDIs.
I’ve looked into buying one as a fun and easy engine swap project. Used 2.4 GDI engines go for $3-$4k, that tells me there is high demand for them.
And that wasn’t their only engine under a recall.
Meanwhile, Corollas, Camrys and Land Cruisers that don’t see road salt will go on forever in the roughest parts of the world with less than minimal maintenance. Yes, they also have a few engines with oil consumption issues, I’m not saying they are perfect.
But there is a reason they are very popular in most developing countries, you’ll see very few Hyundais in these places except for H100 trucks.
The issue with Hyundai and KIA are not the cars, but having to put up with their horrific dealers. I should be interested in a Genesis, but based on the reviews of the dealer, I am going away. Although at least the Hyundai/Genesis dealer doesn’t get the police blotter entries (from customer disputes) that the KIA dealer down the road gets – although who knows how the local newspaper/dispatcher edits the blotter. (Gotta love the local police blotter, but it is often very sad due to the domestic disputes, mental health, and substance abuse problems noted.)
Kia has THE BEST warranty program of any OEMs.
Now, anecdotal evidence is never reliable, however:
Hyundai and Kia post-2005 are generally surviving on par with Toyota. I see a ton of second-gen Santa Fes and Sorentos, possibly more than I see Highlanders of the same era. XD Elantras are actually pretty common but they all look like the survived a war. You would almost be convinced YF Sonatas didn’t go out of production they’re still so common and typically in very good condition.
As someone who pilots a Renegade in a real colour no less (dealer owned, heavy incentives including a ridiculous warranty right before things got dumb). It is a terrible value at sticker.
It’s bad on gas, fully Italian, doesn’t share consumables with the filter, you have to lean on the gas pump to get the capless filler to work, the interior door handles are too small, etc etc.
A fully specced Trailhawk Renegade is the same price give or take as Golf R. It does gain substantial mechanical upgrades from the regular models, but it is a bad choice for anyone sane
Choosing between Fiat reliability and forced induction VW reliability is like choosing between herpes HIV….either way you’re in for a lifetime a complications
The Stellantis products ranking high surprises me very little…most of their offerings just aren’t competitive right now unless you’re looking for one of the last V8s. The Renegade objectively sucks in particular. It was very poorly reviewed when it came out, it’s barely changed since then, and it also carries the dreaded “fake Jeep” stigma with it…which is a surprisingly big deal. Normies are often attracted to Jeeps because of both the hardcore image and the community around them, and the possibility of being ostracized by said community off the bat is really unappealing.
It also doesn’t help that the Bronco Sport came out. It’s objectively better in pretty much every way and has a playfulness about it that’s more approachable. It’s not a car that takes itself too seriously…I personally wouldn’t say the same about the Renegade. I also agree with the general consensus here…the Pacifica Hybrid is quite possibly the best minivan on the market but all the ones I see on lots are kitted out to the brim. Minivans are a tough sell as is and to have them priced in luxury SUV territory is not a good way to attract normies. For better or worse minivans are essentially enthusiast cars at this point.
I’m not at all surprised that Kia is cleaning up. I get that there’s still a sizable chunk of enthusiasts in the KOREAN CARS BAD camp but at the end of the day Kia and Hyundai are selling cars that are more interesting and feature packed than the competition for less money. It’s a winning formula. Obviously they still have a lot of QC issues they need to work through but normies aren’t as in tune to them like we are. The Koreans have rolled the dice on pushing the envelope in ways that more established manufacturers haven’t and it’s paying off for them.
Like child labor! (In all seriousness, yeah, Kiundai are finding ways to offer a lot of features and style for the money, and it is really paying off.)
Unfortunately, children are exploited for labor in every industry, in every country, even the US: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/25/us/unaccompanied-migrant-child-workers-exploitation.html
“In Michigan, children make auto parts used by Ford and General Motors.”
Yeah, every corporation exploits people in any way they can get away with, sadly. And they can get away with a lot.
(Also, the child labor I referenced here was also in the US. Migrant workers here are massively exploited by every industry. To my knowledge, they have not been found using child labor in Korea.)
They can only get away with child labor in third-world countries, like the ‘murican south 🙂
That wouldn’t fly in Korea.
The Renegade was always going to be a failure, this is known. The Ram Classic inventory is a little surprising out of context, because those are huge fleet movers.
But then you put it into context and pretty much it’s like “well yeah, no shit.” Companies are doing their usual lemmings-off-a-cliff behavior where even if things are good? “GOOGLE LAID OFF PEOPLE WE HAVE TO LAY OFF PEOPLE!” So everyone’s completely cut their spending and just said “we can get 5 more years out of this 10 year old truck.” And most companies finance those trucks, so with the Fed using a Gatling gun on their foot repeatedly, well guess what? Ain’t no amount of depreciation that can cover the interest rates.
Same reason for the Ram 2500’s (those are entirely work vehicles; poseurs only buy 1500’s or 3500’s “WITH A CUMMINS!!”) and same reason GM’s got so many 4500’s.
I’m cribbing this from another one of my replies and paraphrasing because relevance.
The slow turnaround on the Renegades is no mystery. The cheapest one in my area is $29,395 and goes up to $34,055. They still have 7 in stock. I wonder why…
“For better or worse minivans are essentially enthusiast cars at this point.”
COTD LMAO!
LOL only two of them aren’t Chryslers, and one of the non-Chryslers is part of a stop-sale
If their flagship non-Jeep products can’t sell (the Ram trucks), that just makes them look BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Even with all the shortages still in place, people STILL don’t want a fucking Mopar
Honda and Toyota can sell at sticker all day long (sometimes even more than that), yet they’d rather be gouged by a dealer than buy a Chrysler!
Apparently, Chryslers at a discount are still more of a scam than paying over MSRP for a real car.
I work at a CDJR dealer. Our inventory is at about pre-pandemic levels. There are a few additional factors I see playing into this:
1) Stellantis production did not take nearly the hit that other automakers did over the course of the pandemic. Production did dip and there were temporary plant shutdowns, but overall Stellantis production stayed pretty level and has been steadily increasing over the last 18 months. Our store is relatively large and in 2019 averaged inventory of about 600 vehicles. The lowest we got in 2020/2021 was about 80 vehicles for sale and now we are over 500 again.
2) The market: Our vehicle sales have been pretty steady. Markups decreased as inventory rose, but volume has offset that. However, sales have really slowed down the past 6 weeks or so. I work in the body shop and we’ve also seen collision and service volume drop significantly. Volume usually drops across the board around this time of year as school ends and families go on vacation. However, I believe folks are tightening their belts and putting off discretionary spending even more.
Just my musings of the moment.
I’m confused about the methodology. Looking at the gladiator (because it surprised me), it’s been selling about 80k units a year for the last 3 years and sold 13k in Q1 this year. That would suggest that with 20k for sale now, it’s only about a 140 day supply (using Q1 figures) or a 91 day supply (using last years sales figures)
They are using the 45 day total sold to extrapolate. Which isn’t necessarily a great indicator, especially with seasonal trends.
Ok, that makes some sense, but it still seems odd, the gladiator sold at a rate of 148 per day in Q1, but only 69 a day in the last 45 days? Obviously it’s not shortages, what would cause a vehicles sales to cut in half, particularly one that is (presumably) most popular in the summer?
The renegade seems even worse, it sold 4129 in Q1 this year or 45 a day, but this suggests only 10 a day for the last 45 days.
Chances are it’s at least partially due to some sort of accounting/reporting quirk or something. Because that is a pretty weird drop.
Yeah, my best guess is they consider a “sale” to be when a vehicle listed on dealers website disappears, which wouldn’t likely include fleet sales or ordered vehicles. I guess it is relevant from a buyers point of view when it comes to looking at discounts from slow movers that are piling up.
I always tell my people that it is okay to be wrong, as long as you are consistently wrong.
Same thing with how they count the data. It might not be the best way, but keep it consistent so you can compare over time and get a sense of how the data is moving.
I’m mostly not surprised about the Renegade. I really wanted to like the Renegade when it came out, the style, the small size outside but reasonable room inside, the awd option, even a lower spec one would’ve been fine, but those humungous A pillars we could not get past(or see around). How does the company that makes the Wrangler where you can fold down the whole windshield if you want, make a car with A pillars so thicc Sir Mix-a-Lot could write a song about them? Also how can they be spec’d for over $30k? I’m wondering if Maverick sales took away from them for those prices, their fuel economy isn’t stellar either, another point in the Maverick’s favor, if you can find one that is.
Yup. It’s about 10k overpriced for what it is.
It’s not surprising CDJR round out the vehicles with the most inventory. The most surprising model on that list (imo) though is the Classic 1500: I would think that even if most dealers only keep $40,000 V6 models on the lot, that they’d sell better than the $50,000 DT V6’s dealers try and say is a better value than the V8 GM twins or the turbo F150’s.
The Renegade has been given way to long of a life since it’s just like the Cherokee now: the public’s view on it is often terrible. The Compass I think is mainly due to left-over 2022’s, since I only started noticing ’23s with the new 2L turbo coming to dealers in April.
My guess is with more incentives on the non classic Rams the dealers are able to bump people into the new body style for not much of a payment difference.
Also Stellantis is the UAW strike target later this year, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re building inventory in preparation for a labor stop.
That being said I just bought a leftover 22 Grand Cherokee 4xE with about $20k in cash on the hood including the tax credit. Killer lease deal if anyone is looking for a PHEV
It’s probably that they built a bunch of the gassers and not enough PHEV, so the gassers are just sitting. Also could be that people saw the Escape refresh and decided they could go with the cheaper option.
But if the PHEV might be going for a discount, I might be looking at one of these soon.
Quick look at AutoTrader has only about 6% of available Corsair’s PHEV (approx. 149 out of 2350).
Yeah, that makes sense. And I would guess that a portion of those 149 are likely spoken for or in transit. Makes sense that the PHEV would sell, even at the high price. $7500 off makes it look reasonable.
I would not mind a awd Renegade new for $15K as a 3rd car. But I would not pay Wrangler money for a loaded one.
Ram 2500 and Pacifica Hybrid surprise me.
Trucks are obviously hot, and there’s no obvious reason why the Ram would be less desirable than the F250 or Silverado 2500.
Pacifica Hybrid obviously appeals to a totally different set of buyers, but I would have thought enough people would get sick of waiting on a Rav4 plugin or whatever and settle for the Chrysler.
Also, it seems the 4 series nose/grille is much less popular among online enthusiasts than with actual buyers.
The Pacifica Hybrid around here is usually optioned up into extreme pricing territory, we’re talking 55k+.
One of the interesting things about everyone getting used to MSRP or higher, is that I’m not sure many car buyers are aware that you can get incentives on some cars. When a shopper does a search for vans and sees every single option over 50k for a Pacifica Hybrid, they’re going to look for something else.
Our CDJR dealers around here have been possibly the worst about taking advantage of price gouging the absolute hell out of anyone that has walked through the door. They all list absolutely bonkers prices for everything. Something tells me that strategy is going to hurt them when they have to start moving volume again.
If you want a family-oriented vehicle with a plug, isn’t $50K about what you’re looking at anywhere though?
I realize that might be sticker shock for a typical minivan shopper used to 30s-40s, but it’s not as if CUV options from other automakers are much better.
Besides, the Pacifica has the full $7500 credit available too. It makes me wonder if something else is going on.
Ah, something else to consider.
When buying my Voyager, I looked into a lot of data as far as reliability goes. The Pentastar with the 9-speed? Not great, but not totally abysmal. However, the plug in hybrid powertrain has been absolutely roasted for all sorts of issues. This includes a major recall for wiring issues.
I have a 2018 that I bought new. The recalls have been simple and the most recent one is just to reprogram charging when it’s hot so that it doesn’t get too hot. Rarely affects charging time. I basically got a loaded luxury minivan (heated and vented seats, adaptive cruise control) that has excellent gas mileage when the battery runs down for about $33000 after incentives, negotiating and tax rebate. They are now in the same range again with the exception of the Pinnacle level.
We own a Pacifica PHEV that we bought in October 2022. I have a lemon case already since there is a clunking noise that they cannot figure out and its been at the dealer for more than 30 days total. Other than that, its been pretty good, sitting at 12K miles already. I wonder what will be the reliability on the long term but a lot of people having issues with the PHEV version of it, some recalls and they are more expensive than the competition. We bought the Touring L for 50K ish and its pretty decent equipped. Time to ask my attorney for an update lol
Oh BMW’s ridiculous styling choices haven’t harmed their sales at all. Bad press is still press, and enthusiasts aren’t their primary market anymore. They’re rolling in money off of leasing their cars to folks who can’t really afford them and want to flex. Much like it is for the manufacturer-any press is good press for a lot of their buyers. Their goal is to be noticed and perceived as wealthy and successful.
And what are you more likely to be noticed in…a bright blue 4 series with beaver teeth grilles or a grayscale Lexus ES? BMW knows exactly what they’re doing. In this era of social media and massive wealth disparity the goal is to be seen.
Laughing at the idea of any serious person being impressed by “flexing” or “being perceived as wealthy” in a 3-4 series that costs less than most of the anonymous F150s and Tellurides on the road.
It’s about the badge amigo, and the BMW badge is a big deal to a lot of people. At least in my area (DC) the brand has a reputation that resonates with non-enthusiasts. People who don’t know cars well don’t get that a Telluride is expensive because of the Kia badge…but any luxury badge on a new looking car screams “I have money” to people that aren’t in the know like we are.
Obviously different things resonate in different areas. On urban parts of the coasts it’s all about luxury badges, whereas in more rural areas it’s more so about who has the most well equipped truck. But if you’re on the younger side in the city and want to post about your “success” on social media? That picture of the BMW key is going to go a lot further.
I get it, but at the same time don’t get it.
I guess if someone is at peace with getting respect from ignorant people and getting mocked by people in the know, that can take them a long way in the social media game.
It’s like that with anything people can attach their image to. I sold guns for a lot of years and there were so many people who “needed” guns that were completely wrong for their intended use or super overpriced because they had to impress their buddies. And they’d buy a $5000 rifle and attach a $100 optic because all that mattered was having what seemed impressive, not what worked.
Their bad styling choices and haven’t hurt them for the last 20 years. Maybe that’s why they stopped making cars for enthusiasts who actually demand something for their money when they know they can keep leasing their ugly junk to car-poor sadsacks who think they’re impressing someone when it sits street parked behind their roommate’s car outside their apartment in a cheap part of town.
My local CDJR dealer has 13 Renegades available (supposedly). All at MSRP (supposedly). All of them optioned up above 35k. For a freaking Renegade. This dealer also happens to be one of, we might say, the most abusive in my area? So I can understand why people aren’t racing in to negotiate a Renegade down to a sane price.
Also, the Renegade is an 8 year old design with hardly any meaningful improvements over it’s lifespan. The few people I’ve known to own one have had tragic experiences with all sorts of powertrain issues. I always liked the design and the idea of a cheap baby-Jeep, but the reality is that they have become outdated, expensive, and overall, pretty shitty. Their placement on this list is no surprise.
Yea I remember when they first announced it I was genuinely excited for it. A small Jeep that wasn’t too expensive. Then I saw what the base model offered and my excitement waned. Then I took one for a test drive and I was out. I wasn’t paying almost 27k for one back in 2015 and I’m certainly not paying almost 40k for one now. I’m more surprised that it is still being produced than I am by it topping this list.
Yeah, they reserved all the fun stuff for high trims and buried into massively expensive option packages. Had they not forced those removable roof panels into only the most expensive option packages, they might have sold a whole hell of a lot more of them.
That’s the only thing I said was a must if I had bought one and then I drove one and said absolutely no way in hell am I going to own this under any circumstances. It felt like I was driving the original Scion xB. A car which was about half the price of the original Renegades price.
Yeah, a quick spin in a Renegade reminds you that it’s really just an ancient Fiat platform with a Jeepesque body.
If I had a choice between a brand new Renegade and at 10 year old Honda Element with 250K on the clock, I would take the Element every day of the week. Can get the Element in AWD, manual or auto, and parts are everywhere for them and dirt cheap, gas mileage is about the same as the Renegade, and you have more cargo room in the Element.
I’d certainly prefer an Element, but man is it tough to find decent examples out there. A lot of them have been run hard and are at the end of their (admittedly impressive) useful life. But there’s still a few out there.
I kinda like the Renegade. If I had a daughter going off to college, it seems like it would be a great choice (with incentives). Then again, if I had a daughter, I would hope she would be driving a Miata.
The Renegade transmission is the same one that was in my 200, and I wouldn’t put my enemy in a Renegade. That transmission was trash.
It’s mostly Chrysler products, which makes sense.