Today’s Morning Dump is going to focus on the differences between countries. What is acceptable, predictable, or reasonable in one culture may not be acceptable, predictable, or reasonable somewhere else. While a debate over surveillance rages in the USA, Toyota is testing a kind of Dark Knight-esque system in its home market that allows authorities to view your car’s cameras.
You’d think the United States and Canada would have a lot in common, sharing both a large border and a predilection for the comedy of Eugene Levy. A trade war has highlighted the differences, although the worst crisis has been temporarily averted.
Large German public companies tend to have a lot of stakeholders to deal with, sometimes including state governments, and this can create both a necessary tension in order to reach helpful compromise and a slowness to react to emergencies. ZF’s new CEO is going to have to overcome those if he wants to save the company.
And, finally, when American car companies want to set speed records they tend to use sports cars or purpose-built streamliners. Czech automakers? Famously, they use sedans.
I Don’t Think This Would Work In The USA
“I know this is a difficult project in terms of privacy, but we can’t use all this valuable data to serve society unless we take a step forward. This project has allowed us to take a step forward,” explains Toyota’s project leader Masato Koike.
The project he leads is one that uses the many cameras built-in to Toyota’s cars to help emergency operators (in Japan this is 119 instead of 911) identify what’s happening at a scene. As Toyota’s in-house magazine reports:
The system has already been used at actual accident scenes. In some cases, it has led to faster deployment of fire trucks, and the results are starting to show.
“Could we use the dashcams in cars driving around town as the eyes of the fire department?”
That idea, from one Toyota employee, is what gave rise to Drive Recorder 119.
Now, through the cooperation of many people, that challenge to shape the future is ready to make a major leap forward.
Practically, this isn’t a complicated issue. Almost all communication between the people involved in an emergency and dispatchers is via voice. While that’s reasonable in many situations, you can imagine how having the ability to see the extent of an accident might help a dispatcher better assign resources in response.
In many cities, particularly in places like London, there are surveillance cameras everywhere and anything that happens in a public space is likely to be accessible to local authorities.
For now, most of the use has been limited to Toyota’s futuristic city, which itself feels a little like a surveillance state already. Car owners also have to consent to allow their cameras to be taken over by authorities in emergency situations.
Could this work in the United States? That’s a harder pill to swallow here, and some of that probably has to do with the reaction to the expansion of Ring cameras and, in particular, to Automatic License Plate Reading (ALPR) technology like Flock, which the ACLU rightly calls “mass surveillance technology.” After the police tracked and confronted journalist Joel Feder from The Drive, awareness of the risks of ALPR tracking seems to have widened.
As a side note, Joel is an old friend, and I’m not 100% sure he shouldn’t have been arrested for something. He has too much energy. It’s suspicious!
The United States And Canada Pause Trade War, Briefly
President Trump has backed off his threat to hike tariffs on Canadian goods to nearly 50%, stating that “I have paused the 50% Tariffs against Canada, that were scheduled to kick in tomorrow morning for a three day period, based on the fact that Canada and the U.S.A., subject to the finalization of documents, have a DEAL! ”
Is there a deal, though? The Canadians aren’t quite so convinced according to this Bloomberg report:
Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney wasn’t as definitive, stopping short of saying they had a deal. Neither side said whether earlier sticking points such as auto tariffs and lumber will be resolved.
“Substantial progress has been made, although there is important work still to be done,” Carney said in a statement. “While we continue this work, Canada remains focused on building a stronger, more independent, and more competitive economy at home.”
While there are many issues, the primary one seems to be about automobiles. The United States wants a 15% tariff on Canadian-built cars, although with some reduction for American content. Even if the effective tariff is therefore only 9-10%, that makes it a little harder for companies to justify building cars in Canada and exporting them to the United States.
At that point, it’s maybe net cheaper to build cars in South Korea or even Japan.
ZF Friedrichshafen Blew Its Cash On Electrification. Can It Survive A Rebuilding?
ZF is one of those companies that makes just about everything, but is known, at least in the United States, for gearboxes. Above is the inimitable 8HP transmission used by engineers who wanted to throw insane amounts of power at a vehicle that could still be considered a daily driver or a luxury car.
That’s the old world. The new one looks very different and, having over-invested in electromobility, the company has to decide what it wants to be. Per this Manager Magazin report, ZF ‘s new CEO Mathias Miedreich would like to not be so reliant on cars:
To stop the downward spiral, Miedreich has conducted a radical assessment in recent months and is now discussing an equally radical restructuring strategy with the management board and supervisory board – albeit with a rather unoriginal title: “ZF North Star”.
Manager Magazin was able to review a draft of the plan, which has not yet been communicated in detail internally. According to the 13-page document, Miedreich intends to downsize ZF by 2028. He plans to shrink the company and set a future revenue target of 35 billion euros. He intends to discontinue unprofitable products and units and close further plants. Miedreich will adhere to the plans of his predecessor, Holger Klein (56), to eliminate or relocate up to 14,000 jobs in Germany. And – in a revolutionary move – he even mentions a partial IPO as a strategic option.
If the plan succeeds, Miedreich can reach stage two by 2028. He wants to transform ZF into a new company that is only dependent on passenger cars by a maximum of 50 percent. A bit more of a technology company than an automotive supplier – something that rival Bosch already is today.
I have a Bosch dishwasher and it rules. Maybe ZF can make a nice fridge.
My Favorite Landspeed Racer Is Obviously This Škoda
My favorite Bonneville is Hugh, and my favorite speed racer has to be this 2001 Octavia vRS, which managed to hit 227.080 mph on the salt flats. From the company:
The project was masterminded by Škoda UK, with the record-breaking car ‘borrowed’ from the press fleet before being extensively modified for the task of breaking the existing record of 216 mph. Following its requisition, the production-spec Corrida Red Octavia vRS 2.0 TSI was subject to a complete strip-down and rebuild. Under the regulations set out by the Southern California Timing Association, only a certain number of modifications were permitted. Adding to the challenge was the fact that the Octavia’s 2.0 TSI engine was so new at the time that very few motorsport or high-performance upgrades were available from external suppliers.
The fastest press car ever? Maybe. In addition to setting the record for a Škoda (the first of its kind) it also held the class record for ten years. In celebration of the 15th anniversary of this achievement, Škoda sent out more photos of the car. I love them.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
Frank Beard, the beardless drummer for ZZ Top, passed away yesterday. While “Sharp Dressed Man” wouldn’t make my top 15 songs from the group, this video features The Eliminator, aka a heavily modified 1933 Ford Coupe. If your curious, my favorite ZZ Top song is probably “Jesus Just Left Chicago,” though “La Grange” has a special place in my heart. The band came to prominence in Houston around the time my mom was starting to go to shows, and she fondly remembers seeing them play garages and other small venues. RIP to a legend.
The Big Question
Would you allow the cameras in your car to be used by an emergency dispatcher?
Top photo: Toyota Times/YouTube
I’m partial to “Waitin’ For The Bus” myself, but Tres Hombres is a legitimately great album and I can’t question other choices. In Frank’s honor I was listening to ZZ Top as my go-to-sleep music last night. I woke a little later to “Cheap Sunglasses”.
TBQ: Our authority figures have repeatedly and conclusively proven that they cannot be trusted with mass surveillance toys, so no. If the infrastructure is there it WILL be abused, and not occasionally but heavily.
No, because if they can use it, other people will figure out how to as well.
Master of Sparks on Tres Hombres .Singing about being “out in the sticks down highway 6”. Probably Sugarland, lol. Which was the sticks.
Yeah I’m going to have to say no way in hell to using my privately owned vehicle as a roaming spy device. I get the premise, but there’s about zero fucking chance that doesn’t get abused, constantly.
Yep, for every 1 time it’s used for good, it’ll be 100 times used for bad.
Weren’t the drums on Sharp Dressed Man done electronically?
Here’s something Frank actually played on with that signature groove.
https://youtu.be/xqagtKXK4g0?si=X3LdhntVTOG8MGal
I remember a handful of songs thinking “man those drums sound like a machine.”
They always sounded best using the “Tres hombres in a room” philosophy.
Think I’ll have TACOs for dinner tonight.
He’s helping your meal planning; you’ll probably have TACOs next week too.
It’s clearly being set up like there’s a deal already – so that when it doesn’t happen and the check cashes, he can claim it wasn’t his fault.
The guy is almost certainly a brain damaged idiot.
I hope Canada pisses all over him.
YMMV.
Urine can be turned into potassium nitrate if anyone is interested.
I think “Legs” is a better video. Cuz, the legs!
It was filmed at Nordhoff St and Van Nuys Blvd in The Valley, down the street from where I once lived.
It seems like ZF could build washing machines, as they have motors and at least 2 speeds, and the fancy ones that I don’t have may have more…
At this point in time it seems like the Chinese will have the appliance industry under wraps within a decade. They are actually innovating in that space. Even wild stuff like plasma cook tops. It’s more likely a Chinese appliance manufacture have a semi successful car company, or relatively successful automotive supply operation. Then it is for a western company to pivot to appliances.
Gensets? Other alternative energy generation? maybe? Focusing on energy they might be able to leverage their reputation, many countries / will or have to buy from a Western company.
TBQ: Not blanket permission, but perhaps at the time of, and for the duration of, an actual emergency.
As for ZZ Top, I think “TV Dinners” and “Cheap Sunglasses” might be my favorites.
Ragebait.
Borg-Warner made fridges.
GM owned Fridigaire
Ford owned Philco
AMC had Kevlinator
Tommy from TFL approves this message.
TBQ: HELL to the NO. The
likelihoodnear certainty that police would abuse camera access outweighs any possible benefit.What are you talking about? The US government and law enforcement would never abuse any of their power or violate any of our rights. They care way to much for us to do anything bad to us. I don’t think there is one case of when a cop ever abused their power in this great country nope not at all…. (Looks at all the recent flock news and inserts a “are you sure about that gif”)
TACO Tuesdays are back!
Maybe ZF should make airships. Oh, the humanity!
Sadly they weren’t the bit of Count von Zeppelin’s empire that did airships. They did make the gearboxes for Panzers though, so I guess we have to say tanks for that.
The zeppelin museum just outside of their HQ has pieces of it that went au flambé… including some scraps of clothing on display, which is just weird…
Actually ZF did make driveline parts for the motor to propeller setups on the Hindenburg…
TBQ:
Sure, I guess? I don’t have a problem with my car’s cameras being used for emergency or law enforcement purposes, as long as there are safeguards that ensure these systems are used appropriately. Yeah, these systems can be abused, but a lot of people in the Soviet Union got thrown into gulags long before 5G, wifi, and the internet were things. The problem isn’t technology and surveillance. The problem is, as always, people using whatever they have at their disposable for nefarious purposes.
In general, I’m less concerned about surveillance/privacy than other people. I have accepted that reduced privacy is part of modern life. To me, the trade-offs are worth it. The vast majority of tech products wouldn’t exist without reduced privacy. Some computer program is probably tracking me right now as a type this, but the upside is that I get a bunch of free information and entertainment because that program will sell my data to someone who will bombard me with ads for shit they want to sell me. I will see these ads. I might even buy some of said shit, if I decide it makes my life better. Free will still exists.
To me, we have all accepted reduced privacy in the name of convenience. If you want your privacy back, that can be achieved. Don’t use the internet. Don’t own and certainly don’t carry a cellphone. Pay for stuff in cash. Ride a bicycle. Read books and other stuff made out of paper. Watch the four channels you can get with a $10 TV antenna. Life in 1973 couldn’t have been that bad, right? I wouldn’t know, I’m a Millennial.
I’d rather live in 2026, even if that means someone with too much time on his hands might be watching me live. If you are the unfortunate person tasked with personally surveilling me, I pity your boring life and/or job. You’ve got bigger problems that I do.
Yeah, I know this is an unpopular opinion. Feel free to tell me how naive I am if you must.
There’s a big difference between your phone spying on you to create targeted ads or tweak a search algorithm vs having a mass surveilance network tracking AND recording your every move, accessible by god knows who, which could literally affect your freedom and legal status. The story about The Drive journalist proves that pretty clearly.
I’ve seen this story before in the latter seasons of Person of Interest. Not good.
Plus the recent story of the lady that got arrested for 2 weeks for hitting/killing someone with her car. Except it wasn’t her, her car had zero front damage and oh yeah it was the wrong color too.
Yep, there are plenty of examples already, this isn’t theoretical.
This is the key difference. Yes, your online activity is being tracked. But–and here’s the key differentiator–it is anonoymized. You are a number value in a spreadsheet. Any targeted ads you receive were delivered automatically based on your activity. Most international companies abide by the GDPR, which has all kinds of restrictions to ensure no PII (personally identifible information) is collected without explicit permission from the user. It’s a big deal in the marketing world and, at least where I work, it’s taken very seriously.
I’m a marketing data analyst at an international company, so I deal with this stuff on the daily. The most granular level of detail I could pull for any of our website visitors is the city/metro area their web traffic originated from.
Any organization that has access to your car’s cameras can collect a lot more information than that, and tie it right back to you. Because then you aren’t just a number on a chart. Whoever can access those cameras can see exactly where you are and what you’re doing. Google isn’t just going to hand over all their users’ GPS data, complete with personal account details. But granting access to view cameras on cars seems to be a grey area right now.
Clearly this needs to be regulated. If you want your car to be part of the surveillance state I suppose that’s your right. But opting out of such a system should also be a right, just as you can opt out of marketing cookies when you visit a website.
Great summary, I’ll have to save this for future reference.
Whoever can access those cameras can see exactly where you are and what you’re doing.
Again, what motivation would they possibly have to do that? I’m not that interesting. And I doubt you are that interesting either (no offense – I’m sure you’re cool). If you, like me, are a random jamoke, you have very little to worry about.
Also again, police surveillance isn’t new. The police can and did surveil people in the past – they just used different methods. Further, in many instances police are using data we voluntarily post (pictures, comments, and other shit) on social media. If you are worried about police surveillance, I hope you don’t use spacebook, tictok, instawhatever, tweeter, or any other social media site. Frankly, if you are that worried about surveillance, you shouldn’t even be posting comments on The Autopian. I find a huge irony that a lot of people are simultaneously seeking privacy and online attention. The best way to remain private is to stay in the metaphorical shadows.
Plus, everyone is ignoring the positive aspects of these surveillance technologies. Sure, police can theoretically use this technology to follow your every move. But they can, and often do, use this technology to catch murders, kidnappers, and various other perpetrators of serious crimes. Is that really worth nothing to you? I can understand if you don’t think the tradeoff is worth it, but at least acknowledge us law abiding citizens are benefiting from these tools on some level.
All of that being said, I would agree that this does need to be regulated. Every law enforcement tool and technique needs oversight and regulation.
I personally draw a huge line between my online and offline activity being monitored by government entities. Very different things IMO.
I am absolutely not ignoring the positive aspects. Every police department in America recently parroted Flock’s messaging of effectivity on social media, trying to ram that message down our throat. I just strongly believe that those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither. If the price of finding my stolen car is me being under constant recorded surveilance, just take my car now.
We ALL sacrifice freedom for safety. You have NEVER lived in a world with absolute freedom.
I don’t want to live in a world with absolute freedom. If I have absolute freedom, assholes do as well. I don’t think it is possible for humans to live in a society that 100% favors freedom over safety. That society wouldn’t be very pleasant.
The only goal is to ensure that the trade offs between freedom and safety remain reasonable. Obviously, our society can and should have discussions about what freedoms are reasonable to give up in order to have safety.
So far, I think we have struck a good balance between the two. Obviously, that could change.
So far I, and a lot of other people, disagree that we’ve struck a good balance. Again, that’s where you and I part ways.
It’s obviously fine to disagree with us, but hopefully you at least acknowledge the reasoning for why we’re opposed to everything that’s going on.
I think you are factually mistaken on a few counts. I think you have overinterpreted a few dramatic instances of government misconduct and falsely concluded this is the norm.
However, I believe civil rights are important. I believe that the government should preserve civil rights and freedoms. I think you agree with those statements as well.
Further, I think you are well intentioned with your arguments and beliefs.
Also, I want to make it clear that I respect your opinion, even if I disagree.
Perhaps, but I’m far from alone. Those few dramatic instances are more than enough for me and millions of other people to say hell no to all of this, benefits be damned. The guardrails to protect against misuse have already failed multiple times and this is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to use of this technology. At this point I only trust most government officials and law enforcement agents as far as I can throw them. If that makes me a tinfoil hat wearer, so be it.
If there are public instances of abuse that means there are plenty of non public abuses that we do not know about. Until the police get rid of immunity they do not deserve this level of control. There is no accountability and that is a huge issue.
Sure.
Again, bad actors in the government have always been able to make your life hell if they wanted to. This is nothing new. I’m not sure why people think we were all immune to the possibility of government surveillance, oppression, and/or incompetence in the past.
You know why the story of The Drive journalist is well known? Because it is rare. That could happen to me. I could also be struck by lightning. I could also win $1 billion in the lottery. I could also find a 10/10 supermodel girlfriend who likes air cooled Beetles and 40 something men who are fans of the Harry Potter franchise.
None of those things very likely to happen.
I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that this is a rare thing. There are already plenty of articles about officers being caught using ALPR technology to stalk people. LAPD cancelled their contract with Flock because an internal audit showed 33% of the stolen vehicles they spotted were false positives. 1/3! One woman spent 2 weeks in jail because Flock identified her car as the cause of an accident despite the fact that police had evidence exhonerating her. That should scare everyone.
The point most people against this technology are making is that this is opening the floodgates for those bad actors and making it much easier for our rights to be violated. IMO anyone still comparing their phones or TVs spying on their habits to train algorithms vs the government literally tracking and documenting your every move either doesn’t understand the huge chasm between those two things or is willfully obtuse.
Cool.
So to prove this isn’t rare you provide the link of ONE person who was mistreated? Two out of 330 million is still good odds. Frankly, I’m more likely to be murdered. I hope the police use surveillance to catch my murderer.
As for the Flock cameras, it sounds like this is not a very good technology and its use needs to be reconsidered. I’m not defending this particular technology.
IMO anyone still comparing their phones or TVs spying on their habits to train algorithms vs the government literally tracking and documenting your every move either doesn’t understand the huge chasm between those two things or is willfully obtuse
I might be willfully obtuse, but so far, I haven’t seen anything that makes me think I am likely to be a victim of government overreach using these technologies. Yes, I acknowledge it could happen.
IMO any generally law-abiding American who thinks the government is literally tracking and documenting their every move is either paranoid or has an inflated ego.
The ultimate privacy tool is to be really, really ordinary.
I admittedly picked a handful of high profile examples to make my point. There are many, many more.
If the crux of your stance is that some violations of civil rights or some false arrests are okay if there is a greater societal safety benefit, you’ve lost me right there.
“IMO any generally law-abiding American who thinks the government is literally tracking and documenting their every move is either paranoid or has an inflated ego.” IMO anyone saying ths is incredibly naive. It’s not that they CAN track your every move, it’s that they DO and they DOCUMENT IT and access to this does not seem to be well contained.. This is VERY close to cell phone tracking which the Supreme Court recently reinforced is NOT legal. That is the crux of my argument, but I’m not going to attempt to convince you any further.
If the crux of your stance is that some violations of civil rights or some false arrests are okay if there is a greater societal safety benefit, you’ve lost me right there.
That is a deliberate misreading of my argument.
To clarify:
Civil rights violations are bad.
The existence of civil rights violations does NOT mean that all law enforcement actions are civil rights violations.
False arrests are bad.
The existence of false arrests does NOT mean that all arrests are unjust or false.
We need to enforce laws to ensure we live in a society that preserves as many rights and freedoms as possible.
The best option to preserve our rights and freedoms is to use human law enforcement personnel.
Well-intentioned humans make mistakes.
The goal should be to minimize mistakes and civil rights violations.
I think it is reasonable for law enforcement to have tools that CAN be misused, as long as they are used judiciously and with oversight.
It’s not that they CAN track your every move, it’s that they DO and they DOCUMENT IT and access to this does not seem to be well contained..
I have seen no evidence to support this assertion. I have seen individual cases of this happening, but nothing to suggest the government is tracking my every move in a meaningful way. Further, I have seen a few databases of law enforcement searches (including license plate searches using Flock cameras) that did not include my personal information.
I’m not going to attempt to convince you any further.
I’m okay with that. Agree to disagree, I guess?
Yep, this did nothing to sway my opinion.
Likewise.
Bro, go Google police abuse. You will get endless examples. It doesn’t have to just be Flock cameras. That is a dumb argument.
Here’s one documenting 34 (if I remember right) cases of cops who were caught abusing Flock (and similar) systems.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2026/08/02/how-police-officers-used-vast-network-cameras-spy-their-exes
You’re incredibly naive.
There are safeguards in place to prevent a lot of the civil rights violations happening right now. The problem is that if the people in power choose not to enforce those safeguards, you have no recourse.
In a perfect world, or even a world where the checks and balances were functioning properly, this might be an acceptable thing. In the current authoritarian hellscape we actually live in? Absolutely not.
There are safeguards in place to prevent a lot of the civil rights violations happening right now. The problem is that if the people in power choose not to enforce those safeguards, you have no recourse.
Again, this is nothing new!!! Why do you think we had privacy and immunity from government overreach 40 years ago? Do you think 1980s cops never violated anyone’s civil rights???
You’re incredibly naive.
Like I said, you can feel free to call me naive if you must.
So because civil rights violations are already rampant, we should give them more ways to be committed? I can’t comprehend that train of logic.
It’s like the “Cthulhu 2028, why vote for the lesser evil?” campaign stickers I occasionally see. Except I think those are usually a joke.
So because civil rights violations are already rampant, we should give them more ways to be committed? I can’t comprehend that train of logic.
I can’t comprehend that train of logic either.
As for my actual train of logic, here goes:
I do not think police should violate civil rights.
I do not think cameras are inherently a violation of civil rights.
I think cameras can be used to violate civil rights if misused.
I think we must take precautions to ensure they are not misused.
I think if, in time, we prove that cameras cannot be used without violating civil rights, we should eliminate their use.
(Incidentally, I have been voting for the lesser evil for years at this point.)
I don’t understand people that naive. They are the kind of folks that would welcome social scores which is the path we are going. For all the fear mongering, the politicians in power would LOVE having China’s level of control.
It’s not about how boring or interesting someone is. The notion of giving anyone authority to anonymously look over one’s shoulder is inherently demeaning and paternalistic. It’s no secret that I take a dump, yet I don’t think it’s anyone’s business watching me do it. I don’t want a society where walking about minding my own business has me viewed by a stalker cam, placed in a 24/7 virtual police lineup, as if on the “Truman Show” or in a zoo.
I’m sure Big Tech is delighted that you believe modern day conveniences require mass surveillance, but that is not so.
Mass surveillance is a choice, one that the authorities in the autocratic so-called German Democratic Republic, Communist East Germany, turned on their own citizens in the 70s using secret police. It’s truly sad how complacently so many here accept and even welcome this way of life.
And just how “boring” do you need to be in a supposedly free country? Should turning up to a protest or voicing opposition at a government hearing deem you so interesting as to have the state turn its ever seeing eye on you? Because that is what has been documented to be happening in Florida today.
The notion of giving anyone authority to anonymously look over one’s shoulder is inherently demeaning and paternalistic.
I don’t want a society where walking about minding my own business has me viewed by a stalker cam, placed in a 24/7 virtual police lineup, as if on the “Truman Show” or in a zoo.
I’ll be honest – I have absolutely no idea what world you are living in. I have a reasonably good understanding of the surveillance methods police use and what they are capable of doing. They simply are not viewing you with a “stalker cam” or anonymously looking over your shoulder. Yes, they have license plate trackers that can tell you were vehicles have been (and yes, these systems have been abused), but that is a world away from what you are describing.
Frankly, if police were doing the surveillance you and others think they are doing, why do they so rarely have good video of crimes that have occurred?
It is hard to even have a reasonable discussion on this subject since people seem to believe so many things that are objectively untrue (i.e. police are monitoring you via cameras 24/7). Trust me – no one is watching you take a dump.
Chances are no one is watching people taking their dumps. You either willfully miss my larger point or don’t comprehend it: just because a person is doing nothing “interesting” or illegal doesn’t mean it’s for anyone else to see.
It’s not merely if police are monitoring any given individual 24/7, it’s that they have accorded themselves that ability and have shown time and again that they can and do arbitrarily look up the whereabouts of those they have no business surveilling.
And, yes, there are also reports of using street cameras to track the comings/goings of individuals without a warrant. In fact, the pro-surveillance camera mayor of New Orleans got ensnared by the cameras watching her for which she was outraged (an uncomfortable justice for a typical hypocrite.)
All this watching by the police state is just a little bit more of dehumanization, degradation, a loss of autonomy, and a loss of dignity.
I comprehend your point just fine. I can disagree with you without misunderstanding you.
I agree that a person’s business is his own business. I agree that the police should not be surveilling random people without a warrant.
What I disagree with is your contention that police are actively paying attention to average people. No one has provided any evidence that is occurring on a large scale. The level of surveillance you are describing is simply not in line with reality.
So far, people have provided a few examples of obvious police misconduct that is almost universally recognized as inappropriate. Very few people are defending this conduct.
I know that Flock can be problematic and has been misused. As I have previously said, I am not defending Flock as a product. It clearly either doesn’t have safeguards against abuse or at least has very inadequate safeguards.
I’m not only talking about the scale of what has already happened or might happen. I believe the state simply should not be given the ability or “right” to surveil the citizenry en masse.
It’s not okay simply because a dragnet is so large some fish will slip through the net.
As for the abuses that even you acknowledge: that is, as the saying goes, a feature not a bug.
Allow my car cameras to be used? No. Encourage developing the ability for 911 to receive video calls (Facetime etc.) from people who took the time to stop and assist or who are involved? Yes. If video from a scene can be helpful, then I’d like to have the option to be helpful.
I would want to hear from an actual first responder so I can know if it would actually make any difference though. I’m not sure how helpful it would be if it’s not really positioned to see the scene. I’m skeptical that this would actually be useful in most situations since your average phone user is not a cinematographer.
That was my first thought as well. If the problem here is that most emergency communication is voice-only, maybe we fix that before we create a massive target for abuse by bad actors.
Nope. I don’t trust anyone involved with that. Not the dashcam company, not the cloud service provider, not the emergency dispatchers, not the government agencies. There are plenty of issues at the individual and organizational level. I don’t want my camera to help get someone deported, stalked, or harassed. I don’t have a doorbell camera for the same reason.
I actually chose my dashcam because it doesn’t connect to the cloud and send my footage to some server. It’s all on the SD card and I can pull the footage if I need it. No reliance on cloud servers, no risk of a company selling or giving any information from it, and no individual watching for their ex or whatever on my footage.
I don’t have cameras in any of my cars, so… sure, they can help themselves to them as much as they like, just as soon as they find one.
Oh no you just opened up the can of worms of them installing one onto your car haha
If it gets to that point I doubt they’ll be asking my permission anyway.
Absofuckinglutely not. Oh and my favorite ZZ Top song is I’m Bad, I’m Nationwide. Despite the fact that they’re obviously a huge band I’m still not sure that they get enough flowers. Billy Gibbons is as good of a blues player as there is and Frank was such a tight drummer that people legitimately couldn’t tell whether or not they were using drum machines for their 80s classics right away.
That era was as good of a rebrand as any, it’s rare to see rock bands adapt to the times and actually do it well and with artistic integrity. I still vividly remember the first time I heard Sharp Dressed Man as a teenager, and any guitarist worth their salt can hop on a La Grange cover in their sleep.
RIP Frank. It sucks that we’re down to just Billy at this point but he’ll keep the legacy of that little ole band from Texas alive and well.
I wouldn’t trust any company or government to access any camera I had control of. Too many downsides. They have cameras everywhere they don’t need more.
What?
The current government is totally trustworthy, they wouldn’t or couldn’t possibly disregard completely signed agreements that they made for their own self-enrichment.
So, do we get paid in social credit points or digital currency for blindly following along?
– Governments , none are trustworthy. All need a power check. Consent of the governed is hanging on by a thread globally.
They will send you a red Turd 2028 hat for cheap, right?
ZZ Top’s cover of Viva Las Vegas is a favorite.
TBQ: Absolutely not. It starts with “emergency dispatchers” , and immediately will turn into “police access for emergency situations”, which becomes “tracking people anyone with power doesn’t like”.
As someone already trying to protect my neighbors from disappearance by violent, racist paramilitary orgs who are using the networks of city and vehicle cameras to identify and stalk people before placing them in concentration camps, this shit is horrifying. Pair that with the ever expanding AI surveillance networks that depend on companies like Toyota voluntarily sharing data into dragnet systems (in the US, this includes parking lot cams hosted by companies like Kroger/Home Depot/etc., ring cameras, driverless cars like Waymo, etc.), and it’s not painting a pretty picture.
We should have the right to move freely in the world – city to city, state to state, and country to country (or just…anwhere, without borders). Even if you don’t think this will affect you, as car drivers, you should be concerned. The false positive rate of AI systems is increasingly high as more and more bad data is included, and more and more abuse of those systems by authorities is normalized. Your car being integrated into those systems will only make you more likely to become a victim of those “mistakes”.
Honestly, I really have a hard time maintaining an even slightly calm tone with all of this, it’s just so deeply…oppressive. Constant surveillance is gross and dehumanizing. I oppose all forms of it.
The Bill of Rights is being systematically dismantled, except for the ‘Sacred’ Second Amendment.
I’ve seen significant backlash against ALPR from 2A people too. Seems like this is a unifying topic.
That’s under attack and being dismantled too and has been for some time. Most of the 2a people are trying to keep the bill of rights intact and enforced.
I am one of those peeps and I used to be somewhat anti-gun but now nope I am all for you owning what you want (obviously as long as you are not a violent criminal or something who has been diagnosed with severe mental problems). I am all for the constitution and against both sides of our political system as they are all just in the pockets of big companies and want to strip as many rights from us away as possible but still give corporations all the power they can.
I’ve always been around a ton of both anti gun and 2a people. I never fully understood the anti gun people. They would often just go full crazy loose control. The 2a people would have a logical conversation and make legitimate arguments. Ultimatly people will go find something to cause trouble with. I would rather they not think about ways to cause large issues like vehicle based attacks or exothermic. Or worse. The US isn’t homogeneous nor will it ever be so the magical thing some other countries did likey won’t work. I have a big problem with reactionary legislation. It’s emotional not logical.
I’ve always sort of looked at like your rights don’t end where others begin. That seems to be what more people are realizing and coming to. Just let people do what they want if they aren’t hurting other people.
The 2a people were definitely the canary in the coal mine for taking away rights. Many said they will start with this then steam roll the rest. It’s pretty clear they were right.
Counter argument, the 2nd Amendment was the first to go. For the vast majority of US history the 2nd Amendment was interpreted to reference the Militia, meaning the modern National Guard and other institutions at the state and national government levels. The interpretation that the 2nd Amendment protects individuals is fairly new, like 2008 new. The authors of the 2nd Amendment actually intended this to be vague and interpreted relative to the current (future?) needs of the nation.
100% agree, the culture shift began in the ’80s really. That’s why ‘sacred’ was in quotes. Heller was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
All I know is of I see a flock camera pop up on the road by my house I might actually lose control of my tractor some how and accidentally run into it. Or a stray 22 may miss those pesky racoons that are going for my ducks and accidentally hit the camera.
It was a key plot point in The Dark Knight to destroy the mass surveillance system after being used once because while a useful tool, it was inherently wrong to have that kind of power
Huh, I just finished 1400 miles in the Lemons Rally before I said hi to you at Concours d’Lemons on Saturday, and one of the checkpoints was La Grange, CA and it kept putting ZZ Top songs in my head.
Hard no on the cameras for the reasons you mentioned. But Japan is a very different society.
No, and not because I don’t think the idea of emergency services accessing the data isn’t admirable. Rather, because once the government gets a taste, they aren’t likely to stop at emergency dispatch.
There is, I think, a pretty significant difference between something like this and Flock or speed cameras, which, while annoying and against my personal preferences, are at least installed in public right of ways on public roads. Accessing the camera from a personally owned vehicle is a more significant violation IMO.
So much this – I understand the immediate impulse to do so, it may even be a net benefit. I also have less than zero desire to have even more of the Government in my personal business. I do not own an Alexa, nor a Ring camera. No dash cam either. Older, non-connected cars. Yes, I realize my cell phone already tracks everything.
Our local police forces are already taking advantage.
Flock camera data is only supposed to be used after asking permission from the client unless there’s an active and ongoing emergency – however recent reporting tells us that over 90% of access is gained without any requested permissions.
“President Trump has backed off his threat to hike tariffs on Canadian goods…”
…because he already had his trades in with his stock broker to take financial advantage of the economic situation which he caused us and Canada himself.
Canada needn’t have done anything at all to respond to this fraudulent extortionist – because it’s not about cars or trade or jobs. It’s about the Pedo-Felon fake-Billionaire creating as much havoc as possible and profiting from it – and selling access to this pre-planned chaos via “Truth API” for $100,000 a month so others who pay him enough can profit too.
https://www.npr.org/2026/08/12/nx-s1-5929391/trump-truth-social-api-lawsuit
Let’s call things what they are for a change.
“Would you allow the cameras in your car to be used by an emergency dispatcher?”
How much will they pay me for access to my data?
How about $1,000 a day?
Deal – Lets do this.
Now I need to place my Kalshi bet that there will be a crash on I-64 at I-95 today – after which I need to go crash my car into something or someone….
Hope you enjoy that great data I sent you!
JCP?