The original Tesla Roadster took an enormous amount of creativity to create. A light, relatively powerful and fun electric car that probably should get more credit than the GM EV-1 as the first truly successful electric car. It was exactly the wrong car to launch with and that’s why it worked. Tesla doesn’t build that car anymore, instead focusing on more popular sedans and crossovers. That’s not a knock against Tesla. It’s good that not all EVs are just little sports cars for rich folks. Still, we deserve a small and fun electric sports car and Toyota should be the one to build it.
We’ll get to other news, but I want to start with a modest proposal: Toyota should build the small EV sports car and call it the MR-2 and sell it in America. The company’s current electric cars are extremely meh and problem-plagued. The new 2023 Prius is dope, though, so Toyota definitely still has some juice.
It’s not a secret why we don’t see a ton of electric sports cars running around: it’s a small market, limited resources mean automakers are focused on vehicles with larger mass appeal (crossovers) and higher profit margins (trucks), and, other than Mazda, few modern automakers are defined by their sports cars. Plus, weight and range concerns are often at odds with traditional sports car values.
Toyota, though, has a long history of building small, lightweight sports cars and has, in the Toyota MR-2, the perfect historical antecedent. I bring all this up, because there’s apparently a story in the lest issue of Japan’s Best Car that details Toyota’s next sports car and it sounds like it’s basically the Toyota sports car thing the company showed already, but with a little 1.0-liter engine. I’m getting this from Motor1 and they, unfortunately, don’t provide any link to any of this. I think the lack of a link is because the story came from a physical copy of the magazine and finding anything online from Best Car is, uh, hard. Here’s what Motor1 says that Best Car says:
The Japanese magazine claims the three domestic automakers are working on an affordable mid-engined Toyota sports car with a turbocharged 1.0-liter engine. The three-pot is said to produce nearly 120 horsepower and 200 Newton-meters (147 pound-feet) of torque. It is believed the ICE will have a mild-hybrid setup to provide a small boost and improve fuel economy.
[…]
Suzuki is reportedly developing the engine while the front suspension will be adapted from the current-generation Yaris. The styling is said to take cues from the Daihatsu Copen although the rendering published by Best Car shows a sleeker sports car that takes itself more seriously. It would be strictly a two-seat affair and carry the Toyota badge.
This is already a game of telephone. A game of telephone begins with Best Car, which has the accuracy of Russian artillery. Still, this is a real market that exists in Japan and it makes sense someone would build a car like this. It’s basically a Toyota version of the Honda S660.
Would they sell it here? Hell no. It’s not worth crash-testing a sports car here, let alone with one toting along a 1.0-liter motor.
Here’s where I should probably get to the point: The Tesla Roadster will probably be built at some point and it’ll be expensive and too fast to feel like a spiritual successor to the original. Tesla is too big and successful to waste its time building a small, cheap sports car. It would be awesome, but it’s not something to get worked up over.
Toyota should. Toyota is restructuring as it tacitly admits it’s behind on EVs. The company should take this design, basically, and make it a modern electric MR-2. It’s not something that would likely sell in huge volumes. It’s not a car that makes a huge amount of sense, which is why it makes a huge amount of sense. No one else I can think of, really, can do this. Maybe Mazda. Maybe. I don’t see Ford or Polestar or GM trying it.
It’s going to probably take years for Toyota to have a real EV strategy in the United States and that’s going to be lead by Lexus, which means the cars are likely to start out pricey. Why not capture hearts with something like this?
We’ll Probably See The New Model 3 In March
Tesla’s lowering of prices worked. It worked extremely well. They’re sold out of Model Ys for the quarter, already. I know people who jumped on the price drop. It was smart. Elon Musk seems to have celebrated by engaging in some good old fashioned union busting, because Elon Musk is the new Henry Ford in all the best and all the worst ways, simultaneously.
What’s been missing from Tesla’s portfolio is a truly new vehicle you can actually buy and drive (which excludes the Roadster and Cybertruck). The Model 3 is the volume player for Tesla so it makes sense that the next big upgrade will be the Model 3. Bloomberg broke the news that its Shanghai plant was scheduled for some changes in advance of the new model, but I’m partial to this Reuters explainer of what’s going on:
The new version is expected to go into production in Shanghai in September, said the person with knowledge of the matter, who declined to be named as the matter was private.
With the new model, Tesla is aiming to cut production costs and boost the appeal of the five-year-old electric sedan, Reuters reported in November.
One focus will be reducing the number of components and complexity in its interior. There will also be changes to the exterior and powertrain performance with a focus on production efficiency.
This is good news. A cheaper, simpler, Model 3 with a (hopefully) revised exterior would be killer. The current Model 3 remains, arguably, the best electric car there is. Tesla has a big keynote-y thing in March and I wouldn’t be surprised to see the company at least tease the car then.
What’s Up With This Watt Thing?
If you were going to make a low volume commercial vehicle platform that could be used in a variety of situations based on fleet requirements I think it would look a lot like what the UK’s Watt Electric Vehicle Company–I assume named for Minutemen bassist Mike Watt–has put together on its Passenger And Commercial EV Skateboard (PACES). In commercial flavor, the company is calling it WATT eCV1.
Here are the details from Watt’s most recent press release:
Designed for production of up to 5000 vehicles per annum, the innovative and highly flexible 3.5-tonne cab and chassis unit, codenamed WATT eCV1, enables a wide range of electric commercial vehicle designs, facilitating mission-specific models which meet customers’ particular fleet requirements.
The first of multiple commercial vehicle offerings to come from WEVC, the eCV1 uses the company’s breakthrough, proprietary PACES architecture, a sophisticated yet cost-effective modular electric vehicle platform. Developed to support commercial vehicle manufacturers, specialist vehicle converters and fleet operators in the transition to an electric future, PACES complies with ISO regulations and exceeds stringent European Small Series Type Approval safety standards.
It’s ’cell-to-chassis’ system means batteries are integrated to the primary structure (rather than having a separate battery pack), thus optimising stiffness, minimising weight and maximising payload. As a result, the clean sheet design means the eCV1 has none of the structural, weight and packaging compromises inherent in the majority of electric LCV designs, many of which having been converted from ICE drivetrains and which are further constrained by traditional high volume manufacturing processes.
Neat! My only issue here is that Watt, the company (not the bassist), has been promoting the idea of this platform for a while, including with a Porsche 356 coupe-looking thing, and I’m not sure I’ve seen a lot of those out in the world. Building cars is hard and it’s possible there’s more there there and I’ve just missed it. Still, the idea seems sound.
Renault Gives Out A Dividend
Russia’s brutal and stupid war in Ukraine has had its share of collateral damage, including Renault, which had to walk away from its partnerships in the country and took a loss for 2022 in large part because of that move. Still, the news is cheerier at the French automaker, at least according to this report from Reuters:
French carmaker Renault (RENA.PA) announced a dividend for the first time in four years, flagging improving margins and earnings as well as a full order book as its ongoing revamp starts to bear fruit.
[…]
“We are out of the emergency room and back in the game, ready to fly and to race,” Chief Executive Luca de Meo said on an analyst conference call after the carmaker reported full-year results.
I think it’s this same call where Bloomberg heard de Meo talk about bringing sports cars to the United States. Here’s what I’m talking about:
Renault SA may team up with AutoNation Inc., the largest U.S. auto dealer group, to start sales of Alpine sports cars in the country, part of a plan to build out the brand that currently sells just a few thousand vehicles.
The French carmaker is also pursuing some other options for Alpine to move into North America, CEO Luca de Meo said Thursday. Renault has made Alpine, which was restarted in 2017 and makes only the A110 sports coupe, one of the pillars of its new strategy.
“It’s not easy because we are not present in the U.S. and we have to start from scratch,” de Meo said on the sidelines of Renault’s earnings presentation. Working with AutoNation, helmed by former Fiat Chrysler CEO Mike Manley, could take the form of a partnership that goes beyond placing cars in dealerships, he said.
Emphasis mine. This is something I care a lot about, obviously, and the news of them partnering with AutoNation to sell the cars (as opposed to just Nissan dealers) is promising. I’m not convinced the reporter didn’t just make a big leap here in assuming Alpine would sell sports cars. As far as we know, Alpine is launching with two crossovers. I’m happy to be wrong here and reached out to the reporter for clarification.
Let’s Talk MR-2
What do you think? Should Toyota sell the MR-2 thing here as an EV? Am I crazy? I might be crazy.
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Photos: Toyota,
AZ1 is interesting in this arena, I do wonder how Kei Cars fit into the current Japan electrification plans.
the only electric kei car I know of is the iMiev, and I don’t think anyone has ever made another one since.
I would definitely not hate on a Prius MR2 Hybrid. package that charging motor out back with a rear or AWD upgraded electric motor setup so it had Plaid speed, if only for a 1/4 mile at a time, and then reshape the front and fill with batteries as low as possible until the weight is a perfect 50/50 balance. Sell it for 30K RWD only and 45 with AWD and bob’s your uncle.
I suppose if they decided to make an EV only variant they could just swap the ICE motor for more batteries easy enough, or better yet, make a suitcase battery that can be taken out and plugged in like an electric power tool and stored on a charger for longer distance runs.
I dig this rendering https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/toyota-mr2-spyder-comes-back-to-life-as-mid-engine-gr-s-using-forgotten-vw-cues_20.jpg
Didn’t Honda already try this with the CR-Z? They had the CRX as a small “sporty” car and made it a hybrid where it didn’t sell worth anything and people complained.
I’ve owned the first two generations of the MR2 and would love to have a new one but I just don’t see this panning out in the sales.
You’re not wrong, but you forget how terrible the execution was for the CRZ. It looked weird, didn’t handle well, and got similar MPG to the standard, non hybrid civic. If Toyota did it and it had decent range, and handled well, it would be very different. Plus the FWD sports coupe market is effectively dead, RWD still tends to do ok in small quantities
I’ve had at least one of each model of MR2, so I guess I’ll be buying the new one if it ends up being like any of the previous three versions. Please let us have a coupe option this time, and space for luggage. And some kind of anti-corrosion treatment. Rust killed all my MR2s that my brother didn’t crash.
I’d also be happy with an EV86. I don’t need much range, but I do need driver involvement and the ability to do skids.
There is no good reason the MR2 Spyder couldn’t have had a decent sized frunk. It was an excellent car ruined by a deliberately-designed total lack of practicality. Even the Ariel Atom has a small frunk!
The Japanese magazine claims the three domestic automakers are working on an affordable mid-engined Toyota sports car with a turbocharged 1.0-liter engine. The three-pot is said to produce nearly 120 horsepower and 200 Newton-meters (147 pound-feet) of torque.
This car will always be Japanese market only, and probably sell very well. Everyone is obsessed with Keis but the fact is that since ’14, the tax benefit of a Kei versus a 1.0 is basically zero. Remember, Japan taxes vehicles based on displacement. From 660cc Kei to 1.0L (regardless of power) is a negligible cost these days.
The engine, by the way, already exists, and is Japan-exclusive for emissions reasons. (Yes, they have different emissions rules.) It’s either a 1.0L (destroked) WA-VEX or a higher boost version of the 1KR-VET, which is a Daihatsu used in a number of Japan-only models. The variant that can smog elsewhere in the world is the 1KR-B52 (Citroen C1) which makes a whole 72HP. The -VET makes 97HP, meaning it’s the only candidate from that family, and it can’t pass emissions in the US or EU.
But it’s almost certainly going to be the WA-VEX, because that’s already a DI hybrid integrated driveline with 82PS and 105Nm (77ft/lbs) base in non-turbo. A reduced compression, turbocharged, destroked WA-VEX would put it closer to a ‘fun’ 7000-7500RPM redline, and easily into the 110HP+, 200Nm envelope.
Either way, this one won’t be coming to our shores, or Europe’s either. It’s too low volume and too expensive to certify any of those engines, if they even could be. (And they almost certainly couldn’t.)
“One focus will be reducing the number of components and complexity in its interior. “
Call a spade a spade, for fuck’s sake. It’s called de-contenting. (Hyphen optional. Check your AP Style Guide.)
It’s making a car cheaper to manufacture by removing features while not reducing the price in order to improve gross margins. No more and no less.
“Renault SA may team up with AutoNation Inc., the largest U.S. auto dealer group, to start sales of Alpine sports cars in the country, part of a plan to build out the brand that currently sells just a few thousand vehicles.”
And I’m out. I’m completely out. Will not buy an Alpine ever now.
Not only is AutoNation one of the absolute worst offenders when it comes to ADM and used car profiteering during the peak, they’re heavily into predatory lending, and their service departments are legendary.
And not the good kind.
Understaffed, unqualified, unethical, and uncapable of even basic repairs. How bad? If you want an oil change at any of our local ones, you’ll have to leave the car for a full day and no, they do not have loaners. Split coolant tank? They’ll ignore that because it’s inconvenient and quote you over $500 for a single radiator hose.
And make no mistake, it’s entirely on AutoNation there. Said shithole used to be the Ford dealer I went to for everything. From crated shortblocks to rally alignments to “I don’t wanna change my own coolant.” Then they sold to the cancerous behemoth, and corporate destroyed everything within a month.
You want to know just how unethical they are. They’re asking over $8k for a base model ’12 Ford Fusion with 130k, no brakes, and rot through on all four corners they tried to cover up. KBB says it’s worth at most $3500.
“What do you think? Should Toyota sell the MR-2 thing here as an EV? Am I crazy? I might be crazy.”
Honestly, why the hell would they spend time and money to compete with something that doesn’t exist? There is no Tesla Roadster. There never will be.
Actually, Japan’s emissions standards are equal to Euro 6
I hope small, lightweight, tossable cars stick around forever. Driving a Miata or something similar on a twisty backroad really is a universally loved experience, and for good reason. Pretty much every single enthusiast agrees and even normies get it too.
You’re correct in saying EVs in their current form are pretty much in direct conflict with that ethos. They’re heavier, they don’t have transmissions (manual is an absolute requirement in this situation), etc. I think we will see a successful hybrid interpretation of this concept before we see a full EV. However, I think a good full electric one will come eventually in the form of a single motor that drives the rear wheels.
I just don’t know if it’s doable right now unless it’s a short range EV. Which, to be fair, might work for a lot of Miata/Toyobaru/etc. drivers who use their cars solely for their intended purpose. But I think a good hybrid version will be here first and I imagine it’ll be the next Miata. I’d also love to see Toyota hybridize the GR 3 cylinder because it’s a bomb powertrain. Throw it in a Toyobaru and add an electric motor to drive the front wheels.
Small, lightweight, and tossable should be made to apply to wind loading. Brand identity, fad styling, and planned obsolescence have for too long been more important than low drag in car design.
Some of the most cherished and beloved sports cars were also very slippery to the wind relative to what else existed in their era. The Porsche 356, Porsche 550, Jaguar D-Type, Lotus Elite, Lotus Europa, various 60s-era LM race cars, and such are all much more slippery than virtually every modern car on the market. And they still look beautiful. Their designs are timeless, and will never go out of style. Do you see any useless wings, oversized scoops, large grilles, truck-sized wheels, and fake vents on them? Nope! Everything is on them for function. Their beauty came into its own as a result.
Consider what these vehicles are fetching at auctions these days. A modern equivalent doesn’t exist, thus the market has nothing to fulfill their roles. Executives, marketers, and accountants refuse to let us have such a thing at an affordable price. There’s this attitude among the decision makers in the industry that such things should be exclusive to rich people, in spite of our modern technology allowing it to be cheaper and more accessible than ever. It’s a crap attitude, but these people often can’t ever see beyond the next quarterly report, and they’d rather us buy something with truck/SUV weight, bloated with features, designed to fail and cost more to fix than the car is worth, and with styling that will be obsolete in 5 years to keep us buying.
“The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.”
– The Internal Combustion Engine, probably
I appreciate the shit out of you folks at The Autopian, and I fully understand the rapidly changing automotive landscape. There’s legislation, there’s a groundswell of sentiment, there’s intent from the manufacturers, but holy smokes, there’s an awful lot of EV news these days. It’s a good thing to be forward-thinking, but we still need cars that will help us do what we have to until there’s a viable forward transition point. I’m not criticizing you folks; you’re just the messengers.
I’m not a curmudgeon who hates the idea of EVs. On the contrary, I wouldn’t mind owning something for which the primary required maintenance would be suspension and steering components, keeping electrical connections and grounds clean, and anything pertaining to the battery cooling system. But what I don’t like is the fact that they’re virtually Unobtainium for regular-ass people, even with the help of tax credits which are a moving target, and yet there’s a continuous promulgation of this as “The Solution, Now.” I also hope that in time this technology develops to the point where it can offer a viable daily driver for us folks in “flyover country” where it’s regularly colder than 40° for 6 months out of the year. I wish there wasn’t such a myopic inclusion and lumping together of the US populace as a whole, while overlooking the indisputable differences between us because it’s inconvenient. I don’t really have a more powerful closing planned because this was just a stream of consciousness monologue.
So much this.
https://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/standing-ovation.gif
Google EV4U. They have a very complete A-Z class that you can take in person or online on how to convert an IC vehicle to electric. The cost to do it yourself is much less than the cheapest new EV, and you can customize your installation to your own preferences. They also sell all of the components, although they are also available from other sources.
There are also sources for complete conversion kits – EV West, for example, has exactly what you need to convert your VW/Porsche and a few other vehicles. It looks very, very good, but seems to be a bit overpriced at around $20,000 US including batteries, or $8,000 plus batteries.
https://youtu.be/VSv8FVJtbAk
I get why the resources go to the most profitable and adaptable models first, but I cannot believe we don’t have a fun little EV sports car.
I’m baffled that nostalgia-driven Porsche isn’t planning a 914e, slotting in under the 718 Boxster. It almost writes itself.
I love the MR-2, idea. Great, great platforms…
Call it the ME-2
*mic drop*
As @V10omous previously mentioned, Toyota already has the answer for powertrain on a new MR2. As an enthusiast vehicle, it’s best chance at success is if it is actually built with enthusiast preferences in mind. GR Yaris/Corolla engine, manual transmission, give us what we want!
Take some of those RAV4 profits and roll them into an engineering budget sufficient for a platform which can also support current hybrid/EV architecture and make everyone happy. Partner with Subaru again if the bean counters start getting all huffy. The current GR models are fantastic, but if they can make a new MR2 that looks even half as good as that concept there will be no issue selling as many as they can make.
Given all the above, we’ll get either 1) nothing at all or 2) another ugly Highlander-type thing with a boring EV powertrain and 270 miles of range.
You can be crazy, and not be wrong. I think both are the case here
The MR2-thing shown above has too much non-functional stylistic bullshit that does nothing but add cost and drag to the vehicle.
They need to go with a cleaner Prius-like approach. Keep the frontal area low, and go for a low drag coefficient design. The car will be less expensive to build and operate, require less battery for a given amount of range, and go faster as a result. A no-BS design is really not a lot to ask for, but executives, marketers, and such will try to convince you otherwise.
See those large intakes in the front with all that busy hexagonal-shaped hole nonsense? Scrap that shit. It’s a mid-engined car and doesn’t need a large volume of air going into the front. Remove the massive side intakes in the rear as well. For front brake cooling, rear brake cooling, and engine cooling, use NACA ducts, and make them as small as can be gotten away with for the amount of cooling needed. Also, get rid of all the edgy angular bullshit in the front. We need smooth curves that don’t create massive pressure differentials. Done. No massive lips, no massive grill, no oversized wheels, just enough downforce for stability at top speed and no more. Done. Keep the design clean.
If they insist on some BS corporate design language being first and foremost over the function of making the car go fast, then the Prius front end, minus the grille, is a great starting point. Keep it functional.
The targa top is a great idea. This allows a tapered rear roofline, for less drag, as long as the top is up, and the top can go down when the operator wants it to.
The drive system could come from the RAV4 Prime. Implement it as the default option with AWD, and keep the car under 2,500 lbs, offer the Supra’s manual transmission as a “standard” option(pun-intended), and they could very well have themselves a winner. A car with Miata price tag that can run circles around the Miata. And it’s liable to get Prius-like fuel economy, and compete with cars 5x its cost on a race track.
The pure EV version could also be offered. It might be a few hundred pounds heavier, but if they get the aerodynamics right(Prius drag coefficient or less, but smaller than Prius frontal area), this could be a sub-150 Wh/mile car and get excellent range on a small battery pack, helping to keep weight AND build cost low.
Come on Toyota, you can do this.
I’d buy an electric MR-2 in a heartbeat. I’m sure there are dozens of people out there just like me.
An MR-2 EV could be fun, but the price would be the sticking point. I don’t think Toyota is going to spend too much money on something that is going to be low margin and low volume, and you increase the margins too much and it’s going to be too expensive to accomplish what you are hoping. Especially with Toyota saying Lexus will lead the way on their EVs, I just can’t see it happening any time soon.
Toyota needs to make another Mr2. Maybe the electric version can be called MrE 😀
Renault should just sell their cars as Mitsubishis in the US
Mitsubishi Twizy
Mitsubishi Zoe
Mitsubishi Kwid
Mitsubishi Sandero
Mitsubishi Lancer (rebadged Megane)
The RS can the the Evo XI
The GT can be the new Ralliart
The Estate would be sold here too
Mitsubishi Duster
Mitsubishi Mighty Max (Oroch)
Mitsubishi Triton/L200
Mitsubishi Montero (Sport, since the regular Montero was killed off worldwide, but we don’t need to use the Sport name here, just call it Montero)
Mitsubishi Kangoo
Mitsubishi Trafic
Mitsubishi Master
At this point, the completely unknown since the Encore and Fuego brand name may be better to use in the US. Putting the cars in Mitsubishi showrooms just guarantees they’ll be the next most repossessed cars when Mitsu runs their next nationwide 0/0/0 sales promotion.
Stop c/cing this. It gets boring
Sure, they should bring back the MR2 as an EV. It’s not like they’re going to bring it back as it was. Toyota hasn’t sold an MR-anything here for almost 20 years.
This also means Toyota hasn’t developed a mass-market sports car by themselves since the 90’s.
They partnered with Subaru for the 86, with BMW for the Supra and they should probably try to tag along with Mazda for this as long as it’s not going to be playing in the Miata’s sandbox. Mazda could definitely use the lessons in electrification.
I love the idea of a Mazda partnership, using the small and lightweight rotary as the range extender in a small 2-seater would potentially work.
In theory, I agree. In reality, let’s see if Mazda can get the rotary to work as a range extender before putting too much faith in it.
Did not read article yet, but headline reaction is:
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YEAH!!!!!!!!!
Twist the knife Toyota, twist the knife.
The company that produces vehicles under the MG badge is about to launch their electric roadster. Looks a bit large to me – almost Jaguar F-Type large. https://tinyurl.com/2p83bzb3
That’s completely against the ethos of MG. I predict it will flop.
That MG has a problem or two – they can’t find two matching seats, the steering wheel is half not there, and the rear end looks as sad as the Xinjiang laborers who were forced to make most of the components.
It’s truly sad that a beloved brand such as MG is now where it is.
Did it take that much creativity to make? I mean, credit where it’s due, it was cool. But they also pretty much just shoved a pile of batteries in a Lotus, which was the thing to do at the time. They did it best, but I don’t know if I’d call it that creative.
They totally reworked the Lotus, though. There’s not as much Lotus in those cars as you’d think. It’s not just a battery pack in an Elise.
For me, while I’m not an EV Naysayer, I just find the idea of the MR2 being revived as a BEV mid ship 2 seater a bit melancholy. Like, undoubtedly, I believe the instant torque of EV motors will have it’s own level of fun, but the MR2 was about dynamics and purely light fun driving with a dose of involvement. Essentially, the Miata, but Mid-Rear, RWD, and a stick. It is one of the best drivers this side of a Boxster (although I’ve heard that that’s going to be a BEV in the next gen too). It’s just widely apparent that battery packs aren’t quite light, as of current.
So, all in all, I don’t want to sound bitter and grumpy and I even hope that I’m proven wrong that they make this upcoming model actually live up to the name through fine, brilliant engineering, but I just have my doubts in the mean time.
Are RWD EV’s considered mid-engined? In most cases, it seems like the motor is pretty much at the traditional location of the rear differential.
Maybe not mid-engined, but mid-batteried since that’s now the driver of the center of gravity and rotation.
I’ve been perplexed by the lack of electric sports cars since the Tesla Roadster. Sports cars like that, the Miata, and the MR2 are often second cars, so an electric sports car can get away with less range in exchange for a lighter, more engaging driving experience.
The problem is that even a ‘light’ EV is quite heavy compared to an ICE counterpart (Tesla roadster was about 50% heavier than the Lotus it’s based on).
That second or third ‘fun’ car in the garage may not get used often, but when it does it may see longer distances than the commuters it shares a home with. I know that when I take out the fun car, it’s often for a long drive up the coast or to the mountains.
For many people the fun car sees track day or autocross duties, and EVs fade fast in these conditions. In the best cases, the battery drains very quickly with the heavy throttle use. In the worst case, things start overheating and putting the vehicle into limp-home mode.
With drag reduction, you can lose hundreds of pounds off the battery for a given amount of range. Consider the Opel Eco Speedster. It could top out at 160 mph on only 112 horsepower, and get more than 90 mpg. How? Its drag coefficient was 0.20, it had a frontal area of 15.6 sq ft, and it only weighed around 1,600 lbs. That same engine in an Opel Astra got about half the fuel economy and lost 40 mph to it top speed.
The same laws of physics apply to EVs. There is no good reason a 2-seater EV needs to consume more than 150 Wh/mile at 70 mph. Streamline that fucker. Screw planned obsolescence. Screw styling/marketing BS. Give us a no-BS function-first design. It can still look good, as many enthusiasts of the earliest Porsche sportscars can attest.
I have a Triumph GT6 conversion that weighs less than it did with a stock inline-6 engine. It’s lugging around 500 lbs of CALB LiFePO4 batteries. Once I get the aero right, it’s liable to have a 200 mile real-world range, and maybe 50 miles at the race track. I might be able to reach 170 mph with only 120 horsepower. And it will weigh well under 2,000 lbs.
Drag reduction is not sexy and does not sell sports cars. A sports car that puts excitement over fuel economy *IS* function-first design.
Tell that to the Porsche 356, Ferrari 250GTO, Jaguar D-Type, Alfa Romeo TZ, Lotus Elite, Porsche 550, and all of those other highly desirable, timelessly beautiful cars that were very slippery for their era and of which hold up well aerodynamically to this day.
You’re right that it doesn’t sell cars, at least not on a recurring basis, because it allows for a timeless, planned-obsolescence-resistant design that never loses its beauty as time goes on.
Most of these modern boxy and angular designs from the 1970s onward that emphasize corporate-brand identity over function will be seen as ugly by the time the next body style comes out. And that’s probably the intent. Modern “sports cars” weigh as much as SUVs and are littered with plastic cladding, fake scoops and vents, spoilers in non-functional locations, ect. all of which adds mass and drag that slows the car down. And they come standard, fully loaded with bloated luxuries that add mass and cost and slow the car down. They are almost the antithesis of what sports cars used to be, and they are more than cumbersome to drive, even if objectively they might be much faster than the sports cars of the past.
With modern technology, sports cars could be lighter than they used to be, much lower drag than they used to be, and much faster. Enthusiasts are being robbed.
Astra also weigh 1100 lbs more. that a lot of weight to drag around. Remember every 100 lbs is worth a tenth of a second in a 1/4 mile, at least that is a standard rule
I’d love to hear more about your GT6 – I’ve always thought they were handsome, especially the Mk1, and if I can ever afford it an EV conversion of something like a GT6, TR4, or even an MGB could provide the best of both worlds.
I’m sure the purists will complain that the car lost it’s soul when the gas tank was pulled, and perhaps the range will limit the fun to a couple of hours of spirited driving, but to me the reliability, maintenance and performance upgrades feel like a fair trade.
Pics can be found here(they are all a few years old, and progress has been made since):
https://i.imgur.com/E4pduC3.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QSbZyhI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fhtXgK2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1g7dh1a.jpg?2
https://i.imgur.com/hmYMbwa.jpg?2
https://i.imgur.com/J7J5NSS.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oyA6lGH.jpg
Components list:
-Prestolite MTC4001 Series DC motor, taken from a forklift and re-wound for high voltage operation, used in Ed Ranberg’s drag motorcycle Kawashocki
-Soliton 1 controller
-x65 CALB CA100FI batteries in series for 208V, 20.8 kWh pack
-no BMS. Batteries are large format LiFePO4 set up as a single string and have been bottom balanced before use and first charge. They won’t need rebalancing again. After 8 years, all batteries are within 0.005V of each other.
-BRUSA NLG1 Charger
-DC-DC converter from EV Source with small auxiliary battery to run 12V system
-transmission retained, with custom adapter plate and coupler
-digital gauges from Intellitronix
This car is not complete. I still have a bit of work to do on it, especially body modifications for drag reduction, which you can see a drawing of in the above images. Trying to source a LeMans bonnet, but Jigsaw racing is no longer operational.
Very nice!
How did you get the adapter plate – did you make it, was it made for you or could you order it for your application?
In my opinion, the reason there is a lack of electric sports cars is because most sports car enthusiasts want to change gears, they want a noisy engine, they want most of the things that EVs aren’t.
They damn sure aren’t engaging to me.
And EVs damn sure aren’t light.
“One focus will be reducing the number of components and complexity in its interior.”
So the next 3 will have no interior at all?
Weight reduction to the max? Why not?
/s
“One focus will be reducing the number of components and complexity in its interior.”
So the next 3 will have no interior at all?
In the same way as a 1980’s Subaru Brat had rear seating.
My immediate takeaway from that statement as well.
Knowing ole musky, he’ll remove the seatbelts as “the new Model 3 is the safest vehicle out there with its always-on FSD software suite!”
Oh, shit, he’s going to try to make people steer on the infotainment screen, isn’t he?
The infotainment screen IS the steering wheel in the new Model 3. Every other part of the interior will be smooth, featureless and anodyne, like the Tesla robot. Oh, and that’s another upgrade: you can have a Tesla robot permanently installed in the driver’s seat – finally real Full Self Driving!
Well, permanently installed except for short
bathroommaintenance breaks at regular intervals. The Tesla Robot is totally complete and ready for use!The robot driver will be a person in a robot suit, like in the Optimus Robot video.
The next three will have no display at all.
Elon will tweet your speed to you every ten seconds to increase engagement with his posts.
I’d seriously consider buying the 1.0L MR2.
I’d definitely buy a version with the GR Corolla engine and a 6 speed.
I’d have no interest in an EV version. Engaging sound, low weight, and manual transmission are non-negotiables for me in that type of vehicle.
Yep. And the way the market is going, I’m 98% sure I’m going to have to build a Midlana or a Locost to get what I want, instead of being able to buy it.
A 1.0L non-hybrid MR2 could easily end up under 2,000 lbs. That engine could reliably be tuned for 200 horsepower. It would fly…
I’d love to see some tiny, electric kei-class sports cars like a new take on the Autozam AZ-1 but all electric, or an EV Suzuki Cappuccino. It’s the most niche of niche markets but hey a guy can dream right?
I daily drive a Cappuccino, and due to a previous urgent need for a replacement engine, happen to have a spare engine-less one in the garage, which I am slowly restoring with the intention to convert to an EV.
I would love to see pics or an article on both of these on here.
A modern Suzuki Cappucino as an EV would be sweet. Without the need for a transmission or a drive shaft, the design could be narrowed an extra 6-12 inches, reducing frontal area. With attention to streamlining, you could make this thing top out like a new Supra, on meagre Kei Car horsepower. Due to low frontal area, if coupled with a sub-0.20 Cd value, and if total vehicle weight is kept under 2,000 lbs, potential for 100 Wh/mile consumption exists, keeping the battery small and light, just the way it needs to be. A 25 kWh battery pack complete including BMS/cooling/ect using the same cells found in the Tesla Model 3 can be done for around 250 lbs total weight, and that’s all you need. At such a weight, even with Kei car horsepower limits, it would end up accelerating like a new Supra too.
Bonus: its material cost to build would be tiny. It could be a cheap car in the $15-20k cost range if produced in enough volume to overcome non-recurring engineering costs.