For our final installment of Same Platform Week, we’re looking at two luxury sedans built on Volkswagen’s D platform. The D, of course, stands for “Damn, this thing is complicated.” Only one wears a Volkswagen badge, however. The other, improbable as it may seem, is a Bentley.
We had another really close vote yesterday, as often happens with two similar cars. The two Honda SUVs we looked at shared engines and drivelines, but had different transmissions, and that seems to be what tipped the scales ever so slightly in the CR-V’s favor. Many of you said you would have chosen the Element if it had a manual gearbox.
I think I might pick the CR-V regardless. The manual is just the icing on the cake. I don’t have anything against the Element, but the CR-V just seems more my style. It’s just a decent little car. The Element is more of a lifestyle choice, and it’s not one I’m sure I want to make.
Every automaker has made at least one truly boneheaded move in its history. Ford had the whole Pinto fiasco, Chrysler partnered up with Daimler, Daewoo came to America. In my opinion, Volkswagen’s boneheaded move was hiring Ferdinand Piëch to run the place. Piëch insisted on moving the brand upmarket, attempting to turn the People’s Car into the Rich People’s Car. He also bought up luxury brands and folded them into the Volkswagen Group. The result of all this putting on airs was this unlikely pair of automotive siblings: a Passat with delusions of grandeur, and a Bentley that would have given old Walter Owen a migraine with its complexity. Oh, for the carefree days of nice simple Beetles and Rabbits. Let’s check them out.
2004 Volkswagen Phaeton – $9,000
Engine/drivetrain: 6.0-liter OHC W12, five-speed automatic, AWD
Location: Ravenna, MI
Odometer reading: 74,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
Volkswagen’s fanciest car to date was Piëch’s pet project, intended to compete with Mercedes and Lexus. It cost a fortune to develop, and absolutely flopped in the marketplace. It turns out that if you want a Mercedes or a Lexus, you go buy a Mercedes or a Lexus, not a Volkswagen. The few buyers who did pony up for an ultra-premium Volkswagen lost their shirts on depreciation: This car is being sold for less than one-tenth of its original price.
The base model Phaeton came with a 4.2-liter V8 from Audi, but this one has the optional engine: VW’s bonkers W12. Imagine two of the VR6 engines in your cousin’s GTI joined together on a common crankshaft, and you get the idea. This six-liter monster puts out 414 horsepower through a five-speed automatic to all four wheels. It’s ferociously complicated, and not what you’d call trouble-free. This one runs and drives well, according to the seller, but there’s no telling when the next sensor will find something it isn’t happy with and trigger a check-engine light. Right now the only warning light is the tire-pressure monitor; the car has new tires, but obviously someone didn’t reinstall or reset the sensors.
It’s as fancy inside as you’d expect from a car in its price class, with power features galore, and every surface adorned with leather or wood. I want you to pay particular attention to the control panel on the side of the driver’s seat; it will become important in a minute. It’s in good shape overall inside, but it could use a good cleaning.
I think one of the big problems with the Phaeton is that it really does just look like a slightly bigger Passat. There’s nothing special or memorable about its appearance at all. This one is in good shape, but it appears to be missing the VW badge on the back. How are people supposed to know it’s a Volkswagen?
2012 Bentley Continental Flying Spur – $27,999
Engine/drivetrain: Twin turbocharged 6.0-liter W12, six-speed automatic, AWD
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Odometer reading: 63,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
Unlike Volkswagen, Bentley has a long and rich history of building big fast cars, going back more than a hundred years now. The marque has been owned by Volkswagen since 1998, and this big sedan has been around since 2005. Depreciation hasn’t been kind to this one either. This Continental Flying Spur was a nearly $200,000 car when it was new, but now you can buy it for about as much as a Hyundai Elantra.
The Flying Spur is also powered by a W12, but Bentley worked its own magic on it: this one puts out 552 horsepower thanks to twin turbochargers. Combined with a six-speed ZF automatic and all-wheel-drive, it made the Flying Spur the fastest production sedan in its day. It’s no slouch even today. Of course, it sucks down fuel like nobody’s business, and trying to do any service or repairs on it is likely to drive you insane, but that’s the price you pay. The seller says this one runs and drives well, though it has a check engine light. They think it’s a fuel cap issue, but it’s worth checking for yourself. Do those cheap Autozone OBDII scanners work on Bentleys? They must, right?
Remember those seat controls on the Phaeton? Look at this photo. Deja vu, right? It’s one of my problems with “premium” cars; you can always spot the parts that came out of someone else’s bins. The rest of the interior is awfully nice, though, I have to admit. And apart from a few little things, it’s in really good condition.
Honestly, this one doesn’t look all that special on the outside either. It’s a fairly generic large four-door sedan. Take the Bentley badges off, and no one would know what it was. It’s in nice condition, as it should be for the price. I think the black wheels are aftermarket, and frankly, I’m not a fan. A dark gunmetal gray would look better, I think.
I try to be as impartial as I can about the cars I feature here, just in the interest of fairness, but I guess I can’t hide the fact that I don’t actually like either one of these. The Phaeton is just silly, and the Bentley brings out my inner class-warrior. But I’m curious to hear what you all have to say about them. You’ve got all weekend to vote and discuss. See you back here on Monday!
Gimme the Vdub. Almost nobody will know what it is. Those who know, know. And those are the people you want to talk to when owning this rolling monument to German engineering hubris.
VW, but I’d like to negotiate the price so it’s UNDER 9000!
OK Vegeta.
Bentley. Full send. I don’t want something as mundane as a Volkswagen driving me crazy.
Ok so I acknowledge the “famous last words” aspect of this but…what specifically is so bad about these cars? Yes, the engine is complicated and requires regular maintenance. The ZF6 is fine, most of the drivetrain is shared with other big audis. General audi stuff like plastic PCV crap and turbo seals going are still jsut audi things. Switchgear and plastics are usually shit across the entire audi lineup. The air suspension is air suspension, and VCDS/vag-com diagnostics with ability to read CANBUS is availble and covers most of the electronics (I assume a fiber optic CAN loop bypass is probably needed here like the A8s?).
So yes, expensive but catastrophic? Bentleys are going to be better maintained across the board. FWIW I’d probably get an S600 for the v12, even if it eats coils for breakfast.
Absolutely the Phaeton. It’s the only “going out to dinner” luxobarge sedan I have any interest in owning. It’s all the mechanical and luxury goodness of the Bentley in a FAR less showy wrapper. The fact that it just looks like a stretched Passat is a HUGE bonus for me, and the same parts in VW boxes cost a heck of a lot less than in Bentley boxes.
Price aside, an easy pick for me, a driver on his 3rd straight VW. I remember sitting in a new Phaeton at the dealer 20 years ago, and while it was a lot like a bigger version of my B5.5, it was also just ridiculously nice. I’m a bit allergic to fancy brands (I once showed up to meet a potential client in my dad’s Panamera, and I honestly think I didn’t get the job in part because of the car), so “all the luxury, none of the aura” is the perfect pitch for me.
And it’s a money trap, of course, but it’s up against a car that would be worse on that front by any measure.
Neither, but absolutely the VW because it’s less money down the drain.
The check engine light? I’m pretty sure it’s just a fuel cap.
On a separate and unrelated note, I have this lovely bridge in Brooklyn for sale as well . . .
In fairness a new fuel cap runs $700.
Phaeton. No CEL so it’ll pass smog at least once, it won’t be mistaken for a Pep Boys Crown Vic, and when the engine blows I can mount it on a stand with the timing chain covers off and say it’s an HR Giger sculpture.
If M. C. Escher had been into sculpture, the results would have looked a lot like the W12 engine.
Right now the only warning light is the tire-pressure monitor
Oh, great… even the check-engine light is broken.
That said, none of the above is the correct answer. And that’s coming from someone who even took a tour of the Phaeton factory in Dresden in 2015.
Well, yes, but “none of the above” is against the rules. You MUST spend your imaginary internet money!
I see. So it’s the Phaeton for the price difference, the novelty value of a Passat on steroids, the memories of our trip to Dresden and the tasteless wheels on the Bentley.
Still, the thought of purchasing either vehicle gives me an urge to visit the German Hygiene Museum right next to the former Phaeton factory all over again: https://www.dhmd.de/en/.
These are both certainly going to end in tears. You may as well invest as little as possible for the experience. Phaeton it is. The Bentley just isn’t that much nicer (or going to last any longer).
I’ll go full Mercedes (Streeter) and take the Phaeton! Hell yeah, huge V-, err…W12. It cost $100K new so it’s a good deal, and I’m too cheap to choose the not-my-style Bentley, even in shitbox fantasy land. That Vdub looks like a blast to drive…too bad it’s an auto! I’d look into a manual swap, if possible? It would be awesome!
They did sell the Phaeton with a 6MT, but it was with the 3.2-liter V6, FWD and in the SWB body style. I doubt the manual could handle the torque of the W12, and you’d have to do something about the rear bell housing output to make it work with the W12’s mandatory AWD. But, in theory…
Interesting, Thanks!
But the MT version was only offered in Europe, and only for the first two years of production (2003-2004). It never caught on.
Correct. Not everything needs a manual transmission. But it is an interesting thing.
I still have a shift lever knob from a MT Phaeton – the staff at the factory gave it to me as a paperweight in 2006. Seems that the purchasing department had over-estimated the demand for the MT and they had a lot of shift lever knobs left over…
If I really, really hated myself and had to choose, I’d roll the dice on the Bentley. It looks way more well-cared-for than the VW, and at least I’d get some baller status in exchange for turning my bank account upside down every month for repairs.
Wait, they aren’t paying ME to take these godawful things off their hands? No thank you! I’m sure not paying my fake internet money for either of these.
I’d rather walk
You would be walking if you bought one of these, so you’re good either way.
Never buy a car from someone who has been proven to be a liar and anyone who says their V12 Phaeton “runs and drives well” is a liar.
I was leaning toward the Bentley, because when you get rid of it, there’ll be some brand recognition. But between the two so-so luxury cars, that’s a lot of dough. And I’m warming up to the idea of the Phaeton, misguided as it proved to be. 9k for a nice car (if less reliable) isn’t terrible, and the rarity actually gives it some reason to exist. Wouldn’t really want a V12 in it, though.
I won’t waste even imaginary money on either of those cars.
Bentley with a check engine light sounds expensive even ignoring the purchase price
I’ve watched too much Hoovie’s Garage to pick a cheap Bentley.
The Bentley seems like a very good bad idea. It gets my vote today.
I never understood the Phaeton. I don’t understand why someone would pay nearly $100,000 for a fancy Passat no matter how many cylinders it has. A $9k used one is kind of interesting, though. But if I am going to buy a bad idea luxury car, its going to need a cooler badge than the one that is on my Beetle.
Get the Phaeton. Then use the difference in price to buy an in-ground lift, hydraulic engine table, and an F-ton of tools and parts.
I would pick the one I already own, which is a 2005 Phaeton with the V8. The W12 is needlessly complex and doesn’t add much to the experience, especially without the turbos. Meanwhile, the V8 shares a lot of parts with the much-more-common D3 Audi A8 L 4.2 and isn’t difficult to work on mechanically. And, really, the Phaeton kind of just is an A8, rendered in steel instead of aluminum.
That said, you will probably have an easier time finding cosmetic parts for the Bentley. No, seriously. The Phaeton was so exceedingly rare that some of the parts are just difficult or impossible to find. I actually had a 2004 Phaeton V8 previously that got totaled in a light parking lot collision because no one could locate an intact bumper cover. A lot of the parts I end up ordering for my 2005 that have to do with the interior or body end up coming from Europe, mainly Lithuania or Romania.
But…even as a fan of Bentley, I never liked the Continental Flying Spur, specifically. It always looked kind of dorky, especially at the rear half of the car, where it looks like an alt-Town-Car (which isn’t a compliment). The Series 2 body, introduced in or around 2014, coincided with a rename of the sedan to just Flying Spur (it dropped the Continental prefix) and that one was better-looking, although it kind of just resembled an apologetic Mulsanne.
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Oh, one other bit of history. Yes, Piech managed to bring a volume Bentley to life with the Continental GT and Flying Spur. But the idea of a smaller, Germanic Bentley actually originated a decade earlier. Back when Bentley and Rolls-Royce were the same company, under Rolls-Royce Motors. Bentley realized it needed a smaller car, but the existing SZ platform and heritage 6.75-liter/4AT package wasn’t going to do.
So, Bentley set about making a concept called the Java, shown at the 1994 Geneva Motor Show. It was a soft-top cabriolet with a removable hard-top. It looked much sleeker and smaller and sportier than anything Bentley or Rolls-Royce was selling at the time. And it was a hit. But underneath the skin, the concept was a heavily modified BMW E34 5 Series.
Well, the folks in Munich got wind of the fact that Bentley had used the E34 as a basis for their concept, and struck up talks with the British automaker to bring such a car to life…only it would be based on the then-upcoming E39 5 Series, specifically the M5. That project got aborted, but Bentley did build 18 actual Javas under its “Blackpool” coach-building service for the Sultan of Brunei: 6 coupes, 6 cabriolets and 6 estates.
Still, BMW ended up involved with Rolls-Royce Motors on production cars. The company needed new products for its larger line and was unable to get the 6.75-liter engine to pass emissions. But BMW was all too happy to help, supplying powertrain packages and electronics for the new-for-1998 Bentley Arnage (4.4-liter twin-turbo V8) and Rolls-Royce Silver Seraph (5.4-liter V12), both with ZF 5AT transmissions.
This was also probably how BMW became interested in buying Rolls-Royce Motors–they didn’t end up buying it, which is a whole other story–but that probably all spawned from the Concept Java.
isn’t BMW the current owner of Rolls Royce? Thanks for the history lesson though. Really neat information!
Yes, BMW is the owner of Rolls-Royce…Rolls-Royce Motor Cars. Which is not Rolls-Royce Motors.
Rolls-Royce Motors’ owner at this time was Vickers, but Vickers wanted to sell Rolls-Royce Motors. So BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen ended up in a bidding war for Rolls-Royce Motors, to allegedly include the Rolls-Royce and Bentley brands, the factory in Crewe, and all the existing IP. Mercedes-Benz dropped out early and decided to revive Maybach as a competitor in this space. So then it was between BMW and Volkswagen. And, already, BMW had a relationship with the company as a supplier and partner.
Volkswagen ended up winning with a £430MM bid. They won the Bentley brand, the IP, the factory in Crewe, the Rolls-Royce Spirit of Ecstasy and radiator-grille shape and…not the Rolls-Royce name or logo.
See, when the Rolls-Royce aerospace and automotive operations were split in the 70s, the name and logo remained with the aerospace company. They were merely licensed to the automotive company. Vickers, the soon-to-be-former owner of Rolls-Royce Motors, had access to them…but they were not part of this deal. Meanwhile, BMW also had a relationship with Rolls-Royce Aerospace, the rightful owner of those trademarks. Rolls-Royce Aerospace and BMW had actually done a joint-venture for small business-class jets not long before. So it was pretty easy for BMW to swoop in and license the Rolls-Royce name for automotive use…and they only paid £40MM, a fraction of what Volkswagen paid for everything else. Allegedly, Volkswagen did not realize that their winning bid didn’t include Rolls-Royce.
What followed was a bit of acrimony between BMW and Volkswagen. BMW:
a) Demanded that Volkswagen immediately stop using the Rolls-Royce name and producing any cars bearing the Rolls-Royce name or logo, and
b) Threatened to exercise its right to stop being a supplier for the existing cars, with just a year’s notice (remember, the new Arnage and Silver Seraph used BMW kit)
Rolls-Royce Motors had not been able to get its heritage 6.75-liter V8 to pass emissions with its meager budget, but now that Volkswagen owned it, that was a possibility. Volkswagen poured a ton of money into re-engineering the Arnage’s body to accept the older, larger and heavier engine, now rejuvenated and sold only in turbo form. This model was called the Arnage Red Label, introduced in 1999. Some of the same modifications went to the existing BMW-engined model, which was sold as the Arnage Green Label, for MY2000.
During that time, BMW and Volkswagen also arrived at an agreement. Volkswagen would continue to operate Rolls-Royce Motors and manufacture cars called Rolls-Royce, through 2002. After that time, only BMW would make cars called Rolls-Royce. Volkswagen would also turn over Rolls-Royce-related IP to BMW: the radiator-grille shape, the Sprit of Ecstasy, and a few crucial Rolls-Royce nameplates and trademarks. The last Rolls-Royces produced by Rolls-Royce Motors were the Silver Seraph and Corniche V.
In 2003, BMW launched Rolls-Royce Motor Cars, a brand-new company that had nothing to do with the former. Its first product was the striking Phantom VII, which was chock-full of BMW engineering, much of it shared with the then-new E65 7 Series.
Meanwhile, Volkswagen renamed the old Rolls-Royce Motors company to Bentley Motors Limited and continued to make only Bentley cars under that umbrella. Bentley Motors also operates the heritage operations, supplying components for most Bentleys and all pre-2003 Rolls-Royces.
Comments Of The Day for the tale of how Rolls-Royce isn’t Rolls-Royce, Bentley is both and neither, and much abundant perfidy anent.
I don’t think I would want to be seen in a Bentley, and as a bonus, the Phaeton leaves a lot more cash for the catastrophic failures that are inevitable
Take the Phaeton, have fun using it as a fancy rideshare vehicle for a bit and let my kiddo play with all the buttons, then sell it for 80% of the initial cost. That W12 looks like a nightmare to work on in the engine bay, and I don’t even know if there’s a technician at the local VW shop who knows how to work on that engine anymore.
I think the Phaeton is too old to be used for ride-share services.The newest ones in the US are 20 model years old.
Fine. I’ll start my own rideshare service. With blackjack! And hookers!
In fact, forget the rideshare service and the blackjack.
Eh, screw the whole thing.