Home » Why Toyota Is Killing The ‘Prime’ Name On Its Plug-In Hybrids

Why Toyota Is Killing The ‘Prime’ Name On Its Plug-In Hybrids

Toyota Prime No More Ts
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Sometimes, creativity has its pitfalls. I mean, I can’t imagine biting into a candle that looks like a deceptively realistic apple, but I can imagine that somewhere in the world, someone has. Every so often, a little bit of clarity is nice, and some car buyers are about to get a dose of it. For the 2025 model year, Toyota is ditching the Prime model designation and instead calling the plug-in versions of the Prius and RAV4 the Prius Plug-In Hybrid and RAV4 Plug-In Hybrid. Not particularly imaginative, but I reckon that’s for the better.

With the Prius, Toyota states that “The change to the Prius Plug-in name is intended to help consumers more easily identify the powertrain choices among Prius models.” As for the reason for the RAV4, replace “Prius” in the previous sentence with “RAV4” and that’s the statement. It’s a move that should’ve happened long ago because well, it just makes sense.

Vidframe Min Top
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It’s unusual that Toyota chose the designation Prime for its plug-in hybrid models, especially considering the Prime nameplate was only used in America, Canada, New Zealand, and South Korea. They aren’t made of USDA beef or related to Optimus or numbers only divisible by one or itselves. Each Prime model isn’t a coating applied before paint, or affiliated with Logan Paul, or a GPU offloading solution for the Linux kernel, either.

2025 Prius PHEV Xse Supersonicred 003

Okay, Toyota claims that Prime signified “the best,” and it’s easy to see some argument for that, given we’re talking about quicker, more powerful cars than their traditional series-parallel hybrid equivalents that can also be more efficient so long as you plug them in. However, lots of people don’t really give a toss about cars, and if it doesn’t say exactly what it does on the tin, they can get a little bit confused. After all, someone buying a plug-in hybrid without realizing they have to plug it in to get the best power and efficiency isn’t a great experience for everyone involved, so think of this as Toyota’s way of saying ‘are you sure?’

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2025 Toyota Rav4 Plug-in hybrid Xse Supersonicred 0008

To complete the change in naming convention, the revised grid-rechargeable Prius gets a PHEV badge on the back, and that’s it. As for the revised grid-rechargeable RAV4, it gets a new PHEV badge on the back, new Toyota emblems without blue halos, and that’s it. Simple, easy stuff to make two vehicles more comprehensible.

2025 Toyota Rav4 Phev Xse Supersonicred 0006

So, same Priuses and RAV4s, better names, more sensical badges. The committee for emblem honesty is chuffed. Exiting the minefield of murky electrified vehicle naming designations is a war of inches, but it seems parts of Toyota have come out the other side. Now if only we could come up with something snappier than bZ4X and get Mercedes to stop calling a car with a two-liter four-cylinder engine a C63, that would be great.

(Photo credits: Toyota)

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Stealthwang
Stealthwang
14 days ago

This was done so that the salesmen would have an easier time moving the non-PHEV models. Everyone asked for a “Prime” and wouldn’t put up with less, and accordingly, the wait times on them were insane compared to the older series-parallel tech. Now the salesmen will have an easier time selling the unsuspecting public that “it’s really the same. Buy this car we have on the lot instead of the Prime”.

Double Wide Harvey Park
Double Wide Harvey Park
14 days ago

Cut that out already

Shooting Brake
Shooting Brake
14 days ago

I actually kinda liked the Prime name. Was nice Toyota had something with some pop. The beesforks has got to go through.

Last edited 14 days ago by Shooting Brake
Bassracerx
Bassracerx
14 days ago

I think Prime as a “brand” for PHEV was a really neat idea. But i respect that Toyota doesn’t want to spend money in marketing Prime as a brand and would rather drop it. It probably has to do with the introduction of the Crown brand. with the Crown supposed to be “the best” having the “prime” cars as a lesser of the “crown” cars is dumb if you stop to think about it for 3 seconds.

Lotsofchops
Lotsofchops
14 days ago

You mean it’s NOT a special edition you can order with your Amazon subscription??

Nlpnt
Nlpnt
14 days ago

I’m surprised to see the RAV4 isn’t getting redesigned for 2025 given its’ importance to the company and the fact that it’s been on a 6-year design cycle and this marks year 7 for the model that debuted in 2019.

At that it barely got a midcycle refresh – I thought for sure they’d have taken that opportunity to clean up its’ odd ziggurat of stacked grilles and mismatched hood shut which they could’ve done by making the Adventure model’s face standard across the line, and adding a bit of redundancy to the single LED tail-brake light at each rear corner.

Johnny Anxiety
Johnny Anxiety
14 days ago
Reply to  Nlpnt

They are having quite enough problems with their rollout of new models elsewhere with quality issues. They cannot allow their prized vehicle to suffer the same issues, I imagine.

TXJeepGuy
TXJeepGuy
14 days ago
Reply to  Nlpnt

Considering how hard it can be to find the current one in a hybrid, I think this is an if it aint broke dont fix it kind of deal.

FloridaNative
FloridaNative
14 days ago

I liked the “Prime” name. Much better than boring-ass “Plug in Hybrid”.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
14 days ago
Reply to  FloridaNative

Me too. I think they should have stuck with it. And what’s wrong with ‘RAV 4 Prime’?

Nothing wrong with enjoying a good steak…

Freelivin2713
Freelivin2713
14 days ago

Busy Forks…also Busy Spoons and Knives

Pat Rich
Pat Rich
15 days ago

Pointless since finding a prime for sale is like finding hens teeth anyway.

Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar
14 days ago
Reply to  Pat Rich

There are a bunch of RAV4s these days in my area. Even have modest discounts at some dealers. Prius, not happening.

Drew
Drew
14 days ago
Reply to  Pat Rich

I was able to get one in Boise, ID this month. I was able to test drive a different one at the same lot this summer. The dealer had previously been unable to get Primes, but it’s improved. I’m hoping the availability will continue to improve, since Toyota seems to have realized PHEVs are popular in most states.

(Had I gone to Oregon, I could have purchased one sooner and in my choice of color, but there were a number of factors that converged to get me to purchase locally.)

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
14 days ago
Reply to  Pat Rich

I had no problem finding used Prius Primes when I was shopping around for a newer car earlier this year. Of course you have to be willing to pay the premium for them.

Tim Cougar
Tim Cougar
15 days ago

They do things like this just to mess with us pedants over at IMCDb.

TheDrunkenWrench
TheDrunkenWrench
15 days ago
Reply to  Tim Cougar

You’re all doing the Lord’s work over there.

Knowonelse
Knowonelse
15 days ago

Even as an owner of a Prius since 2006, I was unclear on what “Prime” meant until last year when we were shopping for a plug-in Rav4. This change is for the better.

Knerd Rider
Knerd Rider
15 days ago

I thought it was because Optimus Prime issued a cease and desist order.

MikuhlBrian
MikuhlBrian
15 days ago
Reply to  Knerd Rider

If Kia had offered a PHEV Optima before renamed to the K5, it could have been called Optima Prime

PlugInPA
PlugInPA
15 days ago
Reply to  MikuhlBrian

Kia actually did offer an Optima PHEV! Not very many though; there are only 21 available on cars.com right now nationwide.

MikuhlBrian
MikuhlBrian
14 days ago
Reply to  PlugInPA

ooh, I had no idea!

Younork
Younork
15 days ago

I find this interesting; for one, a company making its naming scheme more understandable is almost always justifiable and appreciated. But I seriously doubt that Toyota lost any sales due to the old naming scheme. Last I checked (which was admittedly last year), there was still a waiting list for the Rav4 Prime, even though every other new normal car did not have a waiting list. If you immediately sell all the Primes you make, and have a waiting list for the ones you will make, why is there a need for the change? Lastly, I am sad to see the name go because I thought “Prime” was a cool-sounding word, especially when paired with a model name. Ultimately, does this change anything in my life or anyone else’s? No, probably not.

Bassracerx
Bassracerx
14 days ago
Reply to  Younork

“Prime” is a brand and brands cost money. Toyota introduced the crown brand and so now the crown is in and the prime is out.

Sid Bridge
Sid Bridge
15 days ago

It’s important for collectors to get the Prius before the Prime name.
Basically, a Pre-Prime Prius predates practical protocols of primitive preconceived printing of primacy.

JP15
JP15
15 days ago
Reply to  Sid Bridge

Poetry perfection!

Dead Elvis, Inc.
Dead Elvis, Inc.
15 days ago
Reply to  Sid Bridge

Preposterous!

/proceeds to play Primus*

.

*a much better name for the Prius Prime!

Last edited 15 days ago by Dead Elvis, Inc.
John Beef
John Beef
15 days ago

Yeah, when you start it up there needs to be some slap bass groove instead of beeping to remind you to fasten your seat belt.

TOSSABL
TOSSABL
15 days ago

My old gf still consults me about car stuff, and is casually looking for a used Prius Prime. I was shocked by the prices they command, did some napkin math, and told her that the payback for the Prime over plain Prius would almost certainly be longer than she would keep it.
Should have known better: she’s known she wanted one for awhile now, put herself in position to pay cash, and ain’t care. Ok, I said, but you gotta race me in the Roadster: I want to see how that Prime puppy goes. “Bet!”

-I kinda miss her

BolognaBurrito
BolognaBurrito
15 days ago
Reply to  TOSSABL

But… doesn’t your entire post basically show that she’ll get all that extra money back when she goes to sell?

TOSSABL
TOSSABL
15 days ago
Reply to  BolognaBurrito

She first mentioned it around the time articles here were talking about how used prices were definitely starting to come down. I advised waiting 6-8 months, but she said she’s trading in a Prius, so would get that benefit. When I mentioned the prime rate, she said she was adulting (our little joke) quite well & would pay cash. So I withdrew my objections

VanGuy
VanGuy
15 days ago
Reply to  TOSSABL

I’m morbidly curious how my Prius v would do in some kind of turning-heavy road/race/whatever against a Miata. Like, I know in my heart it’d get destroyed, but after driving an Econoline for so long it feels like it hugs corners so well.

Steve P
Steve P
15 days ago
Reply to  VanGuy

Slap on some really nice tires first.

TOSSABL
TOSSABL
15 days ago
Reply to  VanGuy

The weight—and what Steve said about tires—would be the killers. —In my admittedly limited experience. My parents’ gen2 and old gf’s 2010 both suffered from numb steering, pushing in corners, and tires that weren’t particularly communicative near the limits.

That said, I was fairly impressed with the 2010 on the Blue Ridge Parkway after only previously experiencing the gen2.

*I’m not hating on them at all: they’re great at getting you where you need to go for many years & miles. I just wouldn’t choose one to carve corners with

VanGuy
VanGuy
15 days ago
Reply to  TOSSABL

I have a strong memory of feeling like my left tires were starting to leave the ground in my old van while taking a highway on-ramp at 40 instead of my usual 35. Never felt that sensation before or since, and like I said…I’m sure it’s relative.

I do hope to drive or maybe have a Miata someday, but I haven’t yet prioritized that over getting a conversion van again.

TOSSABL
TOSSABL
15 days ago
Reply to  VanGuy

Having driven various work trucks & vans for most of a decade, I very much feel you. Even my old awd automatic Previa felt kinda spritely compared to an 8500lb van.
Put a Miata pic up at your desk and stuff $20-40 in a sock each week: you’ll get there if the want is strong enough. I say it all the time: life is short, so we best enjoy the ride 😉

Viking Longcar
Viking Longcar
15 days ago
Reply to  VanGuy

Will the Miata win? Yes obviously, but Priuses since the 3rd gen do have a nice low center of gravity and the ability to dump the battery into acceleration that, with the right tires, is better than I would have expected.

Drew
Drew
14 days ago
Reply to  TOSSABL

One thing to keep in mind: leasing can save you money. I just got a RAV4 Prime, then turned around and bought out the lease. It didn’t save me the full $6500 they took off, but it still came awfully close to a similarly-equipped regular hybrid pricewise.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
14 days ago
Reply to  TOSSABL

If you make full use of the plug in capability and also drive a lot, paying extra for the Prime can make sense.

In my case, I was seriously looking at a Prius Prime, but then I came across a great deal on a C-Max Energi, which is almost as efficient plus has faster acceleration, and ended up buying that.

So far my fuel economy is averaging 2.83L/100km (83mpg using US gallons) and it’s saving me about CAD$150/month in fuel.

And if the C-Max lasts me for 10 years (and it likely will as I bought it with only 100,000km on it and it’s in mint condition), I will have essentially saved $18,000 in fuel… which is what the C-Max cost me to buy.

In the case of the Toyota, you may pay more to buy it, but it will hold its value. That doesn’t matter much to me as I typically keep my cars until they’re in ‘decrepit’/rusted out condition.

But if she only wants to keep it for a few years, that’ll be okay because she’ll be able to sell it for a higher price than the typical Ford or Chevy.

Bassracerx
Bassracerx
14 days ago
Reply to  TOSSABL

on good thing that toyota did with the Prius prime is they gave it a significant horsepower boost. so there is more factors to consider besides efficiency. so now the prime is not just the fuel miser it’s also the “better” prius. I still wish toyota would put the 300+ horsepower rav4 prime drivetrain in the prius that would be an absolute riot!

Jatkat
Jatkat
15 days ago

Except Toyota also puts an incredibly similar HEV logo on the back of their regular hybrids…

George CoStanza
George CoStanza
15 days ago

Do I still get free shipping???

My 0.02 Cents
My 0.02 Cents
15 days ago

Under rated comment right there, well played sir!

VanGuy
VanGuy
15 days ago

Eh, props to Toyota for this one. Less “sexy” name but the clarity is appreciated.

Now they just need to ditch priapism Prius.

PaysOutAllNight
PaysOutAllNight
15 days ago
Reply to  VanGuy

Yes, the Clarity is appreciated. Honda should start making those again.

VanGuy
VanGuy
15 days ago

Damn, I just got ratio’d on the Autopian

Dead Elvis, Inc.
Dead Elvis, Inc.
15 days ago

Thank you for that Insight.

Ottomottopean
Ottomottopean
15 days ago

No thanks necessary. He did it of his own Accord.

Dead Elvis, Inc.
Dead Elvis, Inc.
14 days ago
Reply to  Ottomottopean

Just performing his Civic duty as a Prelude to even better things, I suppose.

Last edited 14 days ago by Dead Elvis, Inc.
Joke #119!
Joke #119!
15 days ago

So, the non-PHEV will be called “Sub-Prime”?

Hoonicus
Hoonicus
15 days ago
Reply to  Joke #119!

It was giving the F&I guys convulsions when writing 8 year contracts.

George CoStanza
George CoStanza
15 days ago
Reply to  Joke #119!

Thought that was the popular trim level on the Nissan Altima with the dealer-installed tree air freshener, >1 donut spare and peeling window tint.

Timbales
Timbales
15 days ago

I am unreasonably bothered by the line where the black roof ends and the body color begins on the rear pillar of the RAV4.
It doesn’t line up with the seam on the wing at the top of the hatchback or with the line.
There’s likely a structural reason, but visually it looks disjointed to me.

Mechjaz
Mechjaz
15 days ago
Reply to  Timbales

I think you’re reasonably bothered. It looks like it’s trying to drop off in a pseudo-fastback-SUV-coupe (ugh) sort of way – like a Lexus LX that wants to be a fugly X6. LX6?

Eventually, the plastic cladding will rise from the wheel arches and sag (by design) to the beltline and the entire vehicle will be plastic clad.

Fuzzyweis
Fuzzyweis
15 days ago

From the company that brought you BZ4X and the “86”(which has neither an 8 or 6 cylinder, and looks nothing like 1986), comes reflection on bad naming….

The Schrat
The Schrat
15 days ago
Reply to  Fuzzyweis

it originally had an 86mmx86mm bore and stroke.

VanGuy
VanGuy
15 days ago
Reply to  The Schrat

I’m glad there’s an explanation for it, but at the same time, damn, Toyota really just throws out boring names left and right…

PaysOutAllNight
PaysOutAllNight
15 days ago
Reply to  VanGuy

Gr86 is Toyota’s version of an Elon Musk vehicle naming joke.

VanGuy
VanGuy
15 days ago

You know, I never even thought of reading it that way until now.

Thanks for cursing me with this idea.

Mechjaz
Mechjaz
15 days ago
Reply to  VanGuy

*Le Car has entered the chat*

VanGuy
VanGuy
15 days ago
Reply to  Mechjaz

Oh, there’s boring names to be found all over the place, no argument there.

I just think, on average, Toyota’s names are the most boring or lackluster.

(Opposite end: Ford, who only have occasional misses….solely in the context of names.)

AssMatt
AssMatt
15 days ago
Reply to  Mechjaz

Ferrari LaFerrari

Rad Barchetta
Rad Barchetta
14 days ago
Reply to  AssMatt

Ah, the Boaty McBoatface of the automotive world.

Last edited 14 days ago by Rad Barchetta
Fuzzyweis
Fuzzyweis
15 days ago
Reply to  The Schrat

That’s a cool reference, but especially with what Hyundai’s doing they could style it a little more like an 86 Supra, it’s got similar structure so wouldn’t be too hard.

The Schrat
The Schrat
15 days ago
Reply to  Fuzzyweis

I would love to see that. I’m honestly just happy there’s an accessible RWD coupe out there to be the hardtop competitor to the Miata.

Captain Muppet
Captain Muppet
15 days ago

“Now if only we could come up with something snappier than bZ4X and get Mercedes to stop calling a car with a two-liter four-cylinder engine a C63, that would be great.”

If you have any influence at all with the committee for emblem honesty could you have a word about Porsche and the use of “turbo”. They stick the badge on cars that don’t have them and leave it off cars that do.

Younork
Younork
15 days ago
Reply to  Captain Muppet

What do you mean bZ4X is a bad name? beyondZero, size class 4, suv/crossover thing = X makes perfect sense. /s

Captain Muppet
Captain Muppet
15 days ago
Reply to  Younork

I’m not really in a position to criticise the naming of anything given the name I chose for myself.

TheHairyNug
TheHairyNug
15 days ago

I need every automaker to start Oprah’ing PHEVs and EREVs.

YOU get an acceptable compromise! AND YOU get an acceptable compromise!

WaCkO
WaCkO
15 days ago

Now if we can only get these plug in hybrid’s to stop hogging level 2 chargers at work, I’ll be happy. These things should only plug on level one.
They are what is wrong with EVs.
We do 9 hour shifts at work and have 8-10 ev charge spots per site, and every day at least 6 are used by plug in hybrids. When they can easily charge on level 1.

Beasy Mist
Beasy Mist
15 days ago
Reply to  WaCkO

I don’t disagree but do you also have level 1 chargers available?

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
15 days ago
Reply to  WaCkO

That’s a company policy problem, not a PHEV problem.

TheHairyNug
TheHairyNug
15 days ago
Reply to  WaCkO

“They are what is wrong with EVs”
That’s, uh, kind of a strong take

Rommi
Rommi
15 days ago
Reply to  TheHairyNug

a slightly unhinged take

PaysOutAllNight
PaysOutAllNight
15 days ago
Reply to  Rommi

A fully unhinged take. That’s not at all what’s wrong with EVs.

Mrbrown89
Mrbrown89
15 days ago
Reply to  WaCkO

We are only allowed to charge 4 hours to allow other people plug their vehicles. Basically at lunch time you should unplug and move your car out of that spot. 4 hours at 32A is enough to recover what you used to drive to work.

PaysOutAllNight
PaysOutAllNight
15 days ago
Reply to  Mrbrown89

Sounds like a reasonable policy to get double the value out of your charger installation costs.

B P
B P
15 days ago
Reply to  WaCkO

Your work should change the policy to start charging by time after a few hours. Where I work after the first 4 hours (of charging per kWh), they start charging $5 an hour. It helps encourage people to rotate out as soon as they’re done charging.

Also, PHEVs typically need to charge every day, to run on EV, while EV’s can often skip a day. It does depend a lot on each person’s commute of course, and EV’s don’t have a backup fuel source.

Drew
Drew
14 days ago
Reply to  WaCkO

Interestingly, there was a recent discussion at my workplace, and there were strong proponents of giving lower battery capacities (largely PHEVs, but we do have some Fiats and such with small batteries) higher priority because that would keep them able to get home on electric, some who said we should prioritize EVs because it’s the only source of motive power, and the majority just pushing for people to respect the allotted time and remove their vehicle when charged or once the time expired.

I am firmly in the last camp. The easiest way to ensure fair access is for everyone to move their vehicles when their vehicle is charged or the time elapsed. Idle fees or other enforcement measures can help with that, and simply having a policy would at least remind people that it’s common courtesy.

(For the record, I do not usually charge my PHEV at work. It’s too much effort to go out and repark in our crowded lot after I’m charged up. When I sometimes worked nights, I did charge, since the lots were pretty empty.)

Pit-Smoked Clutch
Pit-Smoked Clutch
14 days ago
Reply to  WaCkO

I’m not aware of ANY PHEVs that are capable of recharging on L1 an 8-hour work day. Most can’t even in 10.

Scoutdude
Scoutdude
14 days ago

But many might not show up at 0% SOC making it reasonable to get back to 100% in 8 hrs or less on level 1.

Pit-Smoked Clutch
Pit-Smoked Clutch
14 days ago
Reply to  Scoutdude

I guess that depends on the location in question and what the employees’ commutes look like. A quick scan of Car and Drivers’s PHEV list shows a lot of sub-25-mile ranges, and only one (barely) over 40. These are EPA range miles, so for real world commutes I’m thinking it’s more like sub-19-mile… In summer. I guess some commutes are that short but if mine were, I wouldn’t have that much fuel consumption to offset.

Scoutdude
Scoutdude
14 days ago

It certainly would depend on a lot of factors. A Prius could get ~30mi of range off of a Level 1 in an 8hr work day. Meanwhile the Wrangler would only get something like 10-12 miles in 8hrs of L1.

Pit-Smoked Clutch
Pit-Smoked Clutch
13 days ago
Reply to  Scoutdude

Exactly, but I believe that Wrangler is, by a wide margin, the best-selling PHEV in the country. Other OEMs are following suit with other large PHEVs that will have difficulty charging on L1. Consumers who can afford new vehicles opting for large ones is nothing new.

Scoutdude
Scoutdude
13 days ago

Yeah the Wrangler is the #1 PHEV, but a lot of that is due to the fact that is the only model available for dealer stock in the states of californication. If you want a V6 or a manual it must be a custom order in those states. (Or the dealer makes a fake order that gets “canceled” once it hits the lot). It and the Pacifica PHEV are the reason that PHEVs are being given the title of being “problematic”.

Pit-Smoked Clutch
Pit-Smoked Clutch
13 days ago
Reply to  Scoutdude

I think it’s been #1 for quite a lot longer than the dealer stock rule has been in place. The Wrangler’s baseline fuel consumption is pretty significant, and even with the Bronco, it has no true competitors. Given a choice between 14MPG for 15,000 mi/yr and 14 MPG for 6-8k mi/yr and the rest for “free”, it probably makes finical sense even without the tax credit.

Scoutdude
Scoutdude
13 days ago

Of course it all depends on the amount and type of driving as well as the gas prices in your area, but PHEVs do pay off for people with the right use pattern. Ours is rated for 37 mi and it would probably pay for itself in a reasonable amount of time, but with the various tax credits it was cheaper than the standard hybrid version so it started paying off day 0.

Pit-Smoked Clutch
Pit-Smoked Clutch
13 days ago
Reply to  Scoutdude

Exactly, and I think it pays off better for thirstier vehicles. At $3.25/gal, 28 MPG, $0.19/kWhr off-peak, and 15% losses between the electric meter and the battery cells, each discharge cycle saves $4.30 worth of gas and burns $4.47 worth of the juice.

Dogisbadob
Dogisbadob
15 days ago

No more free shipping, either 😛

Also, fuck them for killing the Prius V.

VanGuy
VanGuy
15 days ago
Reply to  Dogisbadob

As a Prius v owner, I’m curious to go in detail on this further.

Since being introduced in the US, there are roughly 1.75 million Prii on the road.
But only 148,000 v’s were sold here cumulatively. Someone told me they were priced way higher than a regular one, for example, which put them up against different competitors.

Regardless, with the gen 3 issues, I’m still a ball of anxiety about mine at times, even if it’s been good to me so far.

PaysOutAllNight
PaysOutAllNight
15 days ago
Reply to  VanGuy

The Prius V was way more expensive, and offered only a little more floor space than a regular Prius, while being rated for lower economy. It has a lot more cubic feet, but not much difference in floor space.

The closest I got to buying a Prius was when the dealership called to tell me they finally had a Prius in stock, and when I went, the one in stock was the Prius V.

I wanted the regular, but they were sold out, and I wasn’t willing to pay a large premium for something that for my uses, was a significantly worse value for money.

Last edited 15 days ago by PaysOutAllNight
VanGuy
VanGuy
15 days ago

Yeah…brand new, I can understand that being a harder pill to swallow.

Dealing with used prices, the mpg hit is small enough that I’m happy for the extra space.

Plus, when I was test driving, the regular gen 3 Prius headrests were like a rock.
The Prius v’s….was a softer rock.

GreatFallsGreen
GreatFallsGreen
15 days ago
Reply to  VanGuy

Yeah, for the time they were pricey, upper 20k range which was where a more nicely-equipped and more powerful RAV4 was priced. Not that they were necessarily compared, but it didn’t seem like getting more.

Compared among eco options, diesels were having a moment and general sentiment around hybrids still carried a lot of talk on the ROI for the price premium. VW’s TDIs promised all the economy or more, in a conventional package, without the emissions hit compared to a gasser. Or so it seemed!

The initial RAV4 Hybrid was a mileage hit vs. the v, but it was a lot more powerful too and more natural a transition for the average driver, more familiar. The current one is much closer, and I don’t think a present-day v would be appreciably better at least to justify an entirely separate model line.

VanGuy
VanGuy
15 days ago

Yeah. I’ve heard the Venza is the closest thing in terms of interior to the v, but…wow, the pre-hybrid Venzas do not get good fuel economy.

Dead Elvis, Inc.
Dead Elvis, Inc.
15 days ago
Reply to  VanGuy

and with the blind spots of an even more bloated vehicle!

Col Lingus
Col Lingus
14 days ago
Reply to  VanGuy

former older Venza owner here. the gas mileage was terrible. sold mine after barely a year.

VanGuy
VanGuy
14 days ago
Reply to  Col Lingus

Is it true that the Venza is/was the most luxurious Toyota that wasn’t a Lexus? Could almost be a worthwhile tradeoff…

But then again, if you’re getting low 20s mpg, it’s “only” a drop of 4-5 mpg to get into a conversion van that’s more practical and comfortable in every way.

Col Lingus
Col Lingus
14 days ago
Reply to  VanGuy

Venza actually shared many parts with the Lexus, and are an almost identical example of badge engineering. But with the V6 it was hard to get 18mpg in city, and barely 24 on the highway.

I built custom vans for 20 years starting out of high school in 1975. Some were featured on the cover of Hot Rod and Truckin’ and Vans magazine.
As a kid in my late teens, early twenties, I had some NSFW times in the vans I built over the years. It was the best of times back then.

Have always wanted to own another one, but I grew up poor and gas mileage was always important for me. And now I am old and poor again so that is still a huge deal to me. But I want to do some bigly travels out west again, and have been searching for a decent Ford Transit hi top to convert myself. Hard to find cheaply though.

Wish you a great weekend.

Last edited 14 days ago by Col Lingus
GreatFallsGreen
GreatFallsGreen
15 days ago

Adding to that confusion were the trim names for the Prius line, which were numbers (spelled out). So there was a Prius Five, and a Prius v Five.

VanGuy
VanGuy
15 days ago

That doesn’t bother me as much as the fact that, for the 2010 model year only (remember Prius v’s only started for 2012 model year), the regular Prius trim levels were one through five….as Roman numerals.

So a Prius V is a 2010 Prius’s top trim.
A Prius v (for versatile, Toyota says) is the big-assed wagon model.

GreatFallsGreen
GreatFallsGreen
15 days ago
Reply to  VanGuy

Yeah, that’s a clearer way of putting what I was getting at. Seeing “Prius V” on a website or inventory listing could be interpreted differently if you didn’t keep up with the changes one year to the next. Which the average person obviously doesn’t. And if you’re dealer personnel that actually does pay close attention, you have to unlearn the way they initially did it on the regular Prius trims with the Roman numerals.

Pit-Smoked Clutch
Pit-Smoked Clutch
14 days ago
Reply to  Dogisbadob

I test drove a Prius V earlier this year while helping a family member shop for a vehicle. On paper, perfect for her needs. In reality it just drove like a turd, and all the examples for sale had 180,000 miles and needed the expensive brake stroke simulator replaced. Ended up paying much less money for a much newer, much lower mileage Cruze hatch (the extra cargo space was not an absolute necessity)

VanGuy
VanGuy
14 days ago

Damn, I’m offended by your analogy. How would/did you define driving like a turd?

More curiosity than anything else, mind you. I love the smoothness of the eCVT and while you won’t catch me complimenting the engine sound, it gets me from A to B just fine.

I concede I came from a 4-speed auto Econoline with a 4.6l and thus cut about ~1 second from my 0-60 time, and the Prius v had hugely better handling…but perhaps this vehicle history means I’m not allowed to comment on vehicle handling, ha.

I do get your point about the brake accumulator or whatever the hell it is. I’ve heard that and some other things are like “oh, you have 15 seconds after this breaks to stop the car or everything dies“. So I’m glad I did my research before buying it! And I’m only at 155,000 miles…

Me to myself: I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer…

The combination of roomy and fuel economy is unmatched in my eyes, though. Second row has fantastic legroom, still a good hatch area size, and I hit the EPA 44/40 mpg regularly in warmer months.

Pit-Smoked Clutch
Pit-Smoked Clutch
14 days ago
Reply to  VanGuy

Not meant particularly offensively… “Turd” is just an expression I’ve heard on a semi-regular basis to describe a car or especially an engine as a combination of heavy, underpowered, and unresponsive long and often enough that I consider it kind of old-fashioned. Like ‘boat’. Like a lot of idiomatic expressions, I’m not sure it really makes sense.

As I understand it, the brake stoke simulator is what stands in for a master cylinder in Toyota’s hybrid systems (or used to), but it might be in addition to the master. Complex system that allows your foot to move and feel feedback from the brake pedal, but your brakes to stay still so regen can do it’s thing, but only until regen can’t do it’s thing, all without compromising mechanical fail-safe operation.

VanGuy
VanGuy
14 days ago

No worries!…No offense taken. Likewise, using my prior comparison, the Prius v is ~26.1 pounds per horsepower compared to 25.6 for my old van, so even on that front it’s marginally an improvement, ha. But of course, that’s using the combined total of EV + ICE component HP of 134, so who knows how that pans out in all situations.

Yeah, the brake system seems like it’d have to be complex…but I guess that’s part of the tradeoff to have smooth brakes and regen.

Pit-Smoked Clutch
Pit-Smoked Clutch
13 days ago
Reply to  VanGuy

There’s something to be said for expectations as well. You get behind the wheel of a van and you just expect it to drive a certain way. A Prius V feels like a swollen hatchback, and so you expect to to compare favorably to the typical minivan.

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