It was widely reported about a year ago that reproduction shells for the Toyota AE86 generation of cars had become available on Chinese marketing platforms. Reproduction pattern parts such as front fenders and rear quarter panels have been available from China for a long time, but to order a complete body-in-white for a car enjoying such a legendary status as the AE86 Corolla? The internet perked up immediately.
But were you to order a complete car body, what would you actually get? BigTime, the wrenching channel on YouTube, got onto it with the goal of making a driveable one out of the reproduction shell, or a “Fake Toyota” as they call it. It wasn’t super simple.
First of all, if you order just a single one, it’s more expensive at $11k. Over ten shells means paying less than eight grand, but shipping costs, taxes and such also come into question. BigTime, however, was able to source a shell from Battle Garage, an AE86 specialist in SF, who had procured the one that was displayed at SEMA. It’s also said to be the first one anybody has gotten their hands on.
According to Battle Garage, the shell shown in the AliBaba ad photos wasn’t an actual reproduction shell but a Hong Kong car that had been in for acid dipping. Is this the car they scanned for the repro shells? Maybe! An Instagram clip also exists, where a Hong Kong AE86 enthusiast with a very similar-looking car discusses how his car was used for photos on the AliBaba ad below.
Battle Garage didn’t have the time to do the same sort of build that BigTime was planning on, so they sold the shell along with a beat up $4000 donor car to provide all the necessary parts. The shell is a three-door Trueno fastback while the donor is a two-door US-market notchback, but in this case, it doesn’t matter.
The clip is worth watching. The shell’s quality isn’t super great, though it’s possible the quality of later shells has improved, as we’re a year on from when the shells first became available. As for Big Time’s shell, it’s fair to say there aren’t that many mounting holes that line up correctly, and a bunch of them have to be either redrilled or drilled to begin with, ranging from strut mounts to the locations for the front subframe. The fuel tank attachment points do not exist. The A-pillar is lower on one side than the other, which will make fitting glass interesting. The dash bar doesn’t just slide in, meaning the hammer needs to come out again.
On the positive side, the doors are supposedly quite good, good enough to seem they might be reconditioned OEM ones – or not. When the time comes to fit the window mechanisms, the holes are again playing hide and seek. And we haven’t yet addressed the shoddy welds here and there in the engine bay and across the frame rails.
Of course, you have to see the shell for what it is. It’s not a copy of a brand new car, but of a 40-year-old car that’s probably seen its share of hard use. I don’t think anyone expects parts to line up straight, especially when transferring parts from a donor that isn’t in brilliant condition to begin with.
And the end result: who is it for? If you’re re-shelling a track car and need a straighter body than the banana you’ve just wrecked, it might be fine, as well as in use cases where you don’t need a VIN. You don’t need to deal with rust, but a certain amount of shop hours have to go into making the shell usable. Is it better than swapping parts into an old, but Toyota-built shell that has its own set of issues? If you’re paying decent money for a badly copied bodyshell that doesn’t necessarily make things that much easier, the whole online-order deal might be completely pointless.
Photos and top graphic image: BigTime /YouTube
Since this particular shell is a pre-production item I’d consider everything in that video speculation.
So this nowhere near the quality of a Heritage MG shell or a Filipino Jeep. That makes it a questionable value proposition since it’s a lot of work for a currently poor reproduction. Now if Toyota does an authorized version from drawings (I highly doubt they have tooling), that would be a whole different ball game
Next up, long nosed, air cooled 911s, Red Barchettas and California Spyders, Gull winged Mercedes 300s, Pagodas,…
It would be cool if something like this was setup for an xj Cherokee body
That seems like it should be pretty easy, the tooling might still be sitting around at BAIC, and, if not, at least a half dozen other companies around China cloned it
OK. now put one on David’s Jeep chassis. Make it happen Ebay!
I haven’t had a chance to watch the Big Time video yet but I did watch the ones Battle Garage put out before they sold the shell. Their verdict was basically if you’re planning to build an all-out track only car, then it might not be a bad option and would probably end up cheaper than getting any actual AE86 up to that spec but for everyone else, just buy an actual Corolla.
Just get a decenly clean body from Mexico or something. You’ll save a bunch and still have oem quality and structural integrity.
Ah yes Mexico, where crashed and totaled USDM cars are sent to live second lives. Definitely the place to find a body with structural integrity.
An actual wreck might require less work than this $10,000 chasis if you’re trying to build a quality product.
There’s so much questionable stuff going on here, but I think for you this would be a very wise purchase.
I mean, if they did what you’re suggesting we wouldn’t have this article would we?
No. The article would definitely still exist.
Hope this helps.
Right, because ‘YouTubers Rebuild AE86 from Crashed Bodyshell’ is going to generate the same level of interest as ‘YouTubers Build a Fake AE86 With a Chinese Copy Shell but Should Anyone Else?’
Alex, get a grip man.
Hey, I’m just playing along. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Alex, this reproduction AE86 is a piece of shit.
It’s for sale near me, and they’re still using the same pictures of an original AE86 and trying to pass them off as the car they built.
Pretty sketchy for the 15k they are asking.
And come on man, I just shared my opinion on this product and it really touched a nerve with you. That’s not playing any kind of game. That’s just what people do after reading an article about a product.
The fact that it offended you so personally and so deeply is something I’m very sorry for.
You’re a deeply flawed fellow Alex, and you should work on that.
I should say likewise for you. I have been replying in jest and only mentioned that your reasoning that an imported bodyshell ‘from Mexico’ might have OEM integrity may not be true, and 8 people happened to agree with me. At no point did I imply that this Chinese bodyshell would be better than an original, only that finding a structurally intact AE86 in Mexico would be unlikely.
You made that assumption yourself, and since then you’ve been insulting my intelligence. I’ve been keeping the conversation light and humorous whereas you keep making disparaging statements like ‘I think for you this would be a very wise purchase’, ‘hope this helps’, and ‘you’re a deeply flawed fellow’. Seems like I hit a nerve. I never made a claim insulting you or your integrity. I’m sorry you took my sarcasm personally; to be fair, it is difficult to convey tone over the internet.
Besides, the point of the article was highlighting the fascinating availability of knock-off bodyshells from China, not endorsing them or recommending that you go and undertake this project yourself. That’s why I pointed out that if they weren’t using a fake body that this article likely wouldn’t have been written at all. You seem to disagree on this point.
It’s valid that you are sharing concerns about this project being passed off as original, and if anything that may even merit its own article regarding authenticity of ‘restored’ cars. But for you to come after me as responding in bad faith seems a little unprecedented when I’m simply pointing out that building a fake AE86 was the entire impetus for the article.
There are countless articles online about restoring AE86s. This is probably the only one about using a made-in-China replica. That’s why it was written. Hope that helps.
Alex, again I’m sorry for hurting you. Just to make sure we remain friends, I’ve bought the $15k reproduction body.
Fair enough, apology accepted. Maybe consider using it as a treehouse.
That might have been true 20+ years ago, but not these days.
I watched their video the other day. I like the concept, but I have a hard time seeing the target market.
If you’re building a non-street vehicle, you could probably have a race shop fabricate a chassis. Or tube frame the front end if that’s what you stuffed at the track.
Why build one when you can build 5 at 5x the price?!?
Because… You hate having money? You like pushing your car home because it’s just too damn easy to drive it? You used to be an Underpants Gnome and Phase 3 of your plan is Profit?
If the answer is “You used to be an Underpants Gnome”, I gotta ask: What did you do with your share of the the stolen underwear?
On second thought yuck! I don’t wanna know.
Everyone knows the answer to your question is “Phase 2: ???”
The important thing to remember is “Phase 3: PROFIT!”
Yeah but selling used kiddie underwear on the dark web kinda crosses a line.
Do any of the replacement body shells for cars since VINs became a thing have new VINs?
The first I heard of was British Motor Heritage Trust 30 years ago go and they have no VINs, and I have heard of none since.
Also , since the VIN indicates a lot more than a serial number what would be appropriate for a repo shell?
For that matter, what do actual manufacturers’ bodies in white come with for documentation?
VINs are for complete vehicles. Bodies in white from manufacturers are for motorsports use and would not be assigned a VIN. I doubt they even come with the documentation you would get with a trailer (certificate of origin) since they are not intended to be registered for road use.
I haven’t looked up the specifics in a while, but in most US states you’d register it the same way you would something like a Cobra kit car: as a replica of the model and year car it most closely resembles. Typically you’d show a receipt or something to prove where you got the body from, and the state assigns a serial number for the car that acts like a VIN.
That’s not something typically done with repop body shells, though, because most people are using a rusted out/crashed donor car, and it’s much simpler to just transfer the VIN from the donor.
Official Cobra kit cars do come with vins though.
Is there any chance a single one will hit the road with anything other than white-over-black (+/- a black hood)?
I’ll have to give this one a screen time allocation. I like their other videos.
Assuming they get the quality up a bit this has potential to be a pretty solid idea. Imagine a kit car company making kits based on the cheap fun cars that used to be everywhere but now aren’t as much, all while being able to modernize and customize the build without sacrificing a good survivor. Imagine being able to order an NA Miata or Foxbody Mustang body that comes ready for a modern drive train without the potential for rust and crash history problems or having to pay for a good survivor.
Additionally, if someone was willing to take this concept and apply it towards 80s-2000s truck beds and cabs they could make a fortune. The midwest is full of trucks with good drivetrains, ok cabs, and falling apart beds; rust free southern beds are a hot ticket item
Drift, rallycross, stage rally, track rat, … I could see this being useful.
(Too $$$ for the GRM $2K Challenge.)
So one of these follows the Jeep, right? Except instead of an AE86 it’s an AE85…
It’s good to see the Big Time boys get out from the private equity hell that Donut had become.
I fell like the Donut channel has bounced back a bit now, and thanks to all the drama, we can now enjoy Big Time and Speeed as well. That’s a win win win.
I find their new host guy unwatchable. Tristan?
The other guys are OK but not nearly as fun to watch without the more charismatic hosts that are no longer there.
Honestly I like the young guy. There’s an honesty about him and he’s not douchey at all.
Nolan is still great too and they’ve come up with some really interesting episodes.
Nothing is going to be as good without James Pumphrey, but I still find these guys entertaining.
I like the you JDM-nerdy guy. It’s the young hairdo guy I do not enjoy.
He is way to ‘youtube’ for me. He’s not full douchey, but he doesn’t come off as genuine.
I watch the Real Mechanic Stuff spinoff channel way more than I watch Donut.
I’m convinced Angelina, Sandro, and (to a slightly lesser extent) Steph saved Donut with their work at RMS. They did some heavy lifting during some bleak times.
Sandro and Angelina rule. I think they keep getting better.
Absolutely! Their chemistry was amazing from the start and they’ve only got better as they’ve become more familiar and established some backstory.
I’ll have to give RMS a try.
Lately I’ve been watching Sarah N Tuned build the greatest Celica of all time.
RMS is probably Donut’s strongest product right now. If Sandro or Angelina (preferably both) are on the thumbnail, it’s going to be gold!
I agree with this sentiment. Their cheap car shootout was damn near Top Gear levels of entertaining for me. And Justin’s trip across the country in his SVX was excellent viewing.
I stopped listening to their podcasts. Their history one is just them riffing off of wikipedia and their news podcast pales in comparison to TMD here.
I wouldn’t be surprised if most of these just end up having panels cut from them to repair drift cars. I can imagine all of the original bodywork is getting pretty scarce at this point.
Kind of supports the question of why they even bothered drilling the mounting holes (I think they mentioned this in the video).
I’m betting the drift crowd is almost 100% of the target market for these. The lack of VIN would make them about impossible for anything else. It’s kind of a shame, I’d love to see more 86’s out there. Even if they’re basically kits…
You use the VIN from the donor car. Which I realize the ease of doing can vary greatly depending on the jurisdiction, but not a problem where I live.
In the US it is fully and unquestionably illegal to swap VINs.
What do you call what Singer does with Porsches? They’ll buy up basket cases just for the VIN.
They do not put that VIN on another chassis.
How much of the original chassis is saved? Singer is just the most prominent example but I know of Bronco restorers that begin with only a rusted frame and body held together with hopes and dreams. I’d much rather they use a reproduction frame and shell than trying to salvage the tetanus factory that the VIN is attached to for my and other motorists’ safety.
You’re shooting the messenger here. I did not make the rule.
Singer starts with solid 964s. With the prices they charge, they can afford a little extra cost at the start.
I have no idea how it works on a BoF vehicle either. I mean, there were plenty of Toyota pickups that got new frames… but I guess the actual VIN tag would be on the cowl and the engine bay. But then there are plenty of Jeeps that have their entire bodies replaced on the same frame – and I assume you would have to swap the VIN tags in that situation.
As I have mentioned here before, my specialty is bird law.
Sorry. Didn’t mean to come off as combative. More curious since the comment I replied to was so cut and dry.
So is it fully and unquestionably illegal to swap VINs? Objectively so; it’s in writing. I won’t argue with you there. Are there ways restore a car like a ship of theseus? Maybe?
https://fscorps.com/federal-law-vin-swapping-united-states-v-nagapetian/
You have to find someone who gives a shit. My state sure doesn’t. As I said – at what point is a full rebuild not the same car, Ship of Thesus style? Of course, intent matters.
I think the laws are intended mainly to prevent organized auto theft and the ‘laundering’ of stolen vehicles.
Because of that, the penalties are harsh and there is little wiggle room in the definition of the offense.
It’s not intended to prevent comprehensive restoration of classic vehicles and I doubt the authorities are hunting for people in that situation. I have very low risk tolerance when it comes to criminal penalties, and the thing that would worry me is an unhappy future owner of the vehicle if the number swap could be traced back to my ownership. Let’s be honest, it would likely be documented in the photos I would pass to the next owner.
Like I said – intent matters. A LOT. Don’t try to sell a reshelled vehicle as a cherry original and you will be just fine, in all likelihood. Make sure the original no longer exists as well.
My Spitfire does not wear the VIN plate it was born with – but it has a HELL of a lot of parts from that car in it at this point, and nobody would ever be able to tell the difference. Nor would I or could I try to pass it off as some sort of museum piece, given it is a total Frankenstein of a car with bits from 1969 to 1980 – but ALL of it is original Triumph bits. It is a perfectly lovely car though, rather a Greatest Hits of all things Spitfire. Best engine, best transmission, best suspension, best cooling system, etc.
I still worry that the SR-swapped S13 I sold in 2007 is somehow going to catch up with me.
As NSX mentioned in yours and his discussion (ironically, in reply to another comment I made), I was thinking of the replica Cobra market. I’ve read for my state, you need to submit documentation and bills of sale for all of the major components. I interpreted the lack of a chassis number or vin number as likely making a valid bill of sale for the chassis almost impossible to have, thus a non-starter.
You’re correct in the donor car route possibly being an option, but I was mainly thinking new replica AE86s instead of replaced 86s. Similar to how there are likely an order of magnitude more replica Shelby Cobras than there ever were originals*.
*That number is based on nothing more than a guesstimate based on the sheer number of replicas I’ve seen in my life.
Whereas these wouldn’t so much be replicas as new production, I don’t know how that might fall legally (not to mention the OEM’s approval), but if they would qualify as replicas, they could build up to 325 turnkey cars per year. I’m unsure if that covers all available models or if it’s a per model limit and I’m too lazy to go through the NHTSA documentation to figure it out (say they also start building “new” mk4 Supras, would they also be able to build 325 of those or is the 325 split between the two models?). They would also have to meet modern emission standards. As kit cars, there would be no limit AFAIK, but then there’s still OEM approval. They also need to be over 25 years old in either case, but that’s not an issue here (one of the reasons for the age might be so that someone doesn’t loophole importation of an unapproved car and register it as a replica rather than an OEM build).
Cobras are mostly kit cars. Turnkeys must fall under the low volume manufacturers category, so under 325 units per year. Shelby did make an extended run of new Cobras (as did Jaguar with D-Types) by using original VINs that had never been used in production (or destroyed in a factory fire in the case of Jaguar), essentially making them very delayed production cars from the year the VIN was issued. No, I don’t know exactly how that works. I assume The Man has to approve/issues a series of VINs to a manufacturer, something like an ISBN to an author/publisher and, once issued, whether someone uses it or not, the number is permanently yours and attached to a specific project (which, if true, would be a bit different than an ISBN, which doesn’t get assigned to a specific project at time of issuance, but is attached to the finished work when complete).
How are you going to make a NEW AE86? Unlike a Cobra, I doubt you can even begin to buy every bit new. Much more complex car, you pretty much are going to HAVE to have a donor car if you are building something you want to be more than a drift car. If you are only building a drift car, who cares?
There are certainly a couple orders of magnitude more Cobra kit cars than there are originals. The originals are very rare and special things, with less than a 1000 of both varieties having been built. But that is a completely and utterly different scenario than this. And many of the replicas only “mostly look” like Cobras. My hot rod builder buddy neighbor has one with a Chevy smallblock and an automatic in it. And slightly weird proportions.
I’ll admit it was far from a perfect comparison (the Cobra replicas to this 86 sort-of replica), it was the closest I could think of.
I watched this the other day and was wondering how this compared to something like the dynacorn reproduction bodies for classic Mustangs/Camaros you can buy. Anyone have any experience with those?
Supposedly the Dynacorns are based on the original tooling, I don’t remember who did it but one of the Spike muscle car shows built one and it seemed to be better than this.
https://www.facebook.com/studiohotrods/videos/dynacorn-build-complete-if-i-only-knew-now-what-i-didnt-know-then/1353783866202710/
Can’t access this link on my work computer, but here’s what appears to be a review of sorts.
To be fair, they even state in the video that this was literally the first one. It’s possible that subsequent ones will be better.
Given the price of a clean AE86 these days, this would be worth it if they got the quality in check, so you can replace a rusted-out chassis.
I think a lot of people forget just how many of these cars perish in the rust belt purely because the chassis rotted away.
Didn’t they mention the catch that you have to buy 5 shells at a time? That would change the feasibility math pretty dramatically.
Add in the likely nightmare of paperwork for the car (I think they mentioned they don’t have chassis VINs, its been a couple of days since I watched the video), and that kind of negates any chance of these being more than track toys or replacements for tired drift chassis. This is probably the actual target market for these; but, again, the 5 unit minimum order kind of puts a cramp on that…
I love the idea and that the option exists, I just see some major problems in the execution.
Muscle car people have been getting around the VIN thing for a while by just cutting out VINs from donor chassis and welding them onto reproduction bodies. I’m sure it’s illegal, but as far as the DMV concerned, if you’re getting a title for a Corolla and you’re presenting them with what appears to be a Corolla, they probably won’t question it. Keep in mind I also live somewhere where they’ll title anything, so YMMV if you live in California.
Before I commented I did some looking at my state (Utah) and it looks like the lack of a VIN from the manufacturer would be a problem. Having a donor VIN and going the rebuilt route might be an option, but I’m not sure about the specifics. Also the needing a donor VIN raises the cost of building a replica 86 using this chassis considerably.
Main point was that they could have made things a hell of a lot easier and likely expanded their potential market by just giving each chassis a VIN to begin with.
I would assume that they CAN’T give them a VIN, or at least one that would mean anything. Only Toyota could assign a Toyota VIN, and if they are not Toyota, then a VIN of their own would be useless. I see this as no different than doing any other MAJOR restoration of a car – you use the donor car VIN. At what point is a car that has had every panel replaced (ship of Thesus style) not the same car? Of course, this will vary considerably by jurisdiction.
Where I live, one state would not care in the slightest for a car this old, doesn’t even need a title (and they don’t check new cars either, but it would need a title, which would come with the donor). The other just looks to see that the tag on the dash matches the paperwork, and no farther.
I’ve worked with a lot of Cobra replicas, and most of those manufacturers will give them their own chassis number. You can take that chassis number to the DMV and get a state-assigned VIN. Of course it probably wouldn’t be titled as a Corolla and would be legally called a 2026 Assembled Vehicle or something.
As you say, a chassis ID is not a VIN. A kit car is a whole different thing than this – chances are you don’t have a donor Cobra to use the VIN from (not that a real Cobra has a VIN either – waaaay too old). Hell, in Maine you probably could register this as a kit car and really call it a day, but anything more then 25 years old doesn’t need a title anyway.
I am actually kind of surprised that Toyota has not sued them into oblivion.
No, I know it’s not a legal, federally-recognized VIN, but my point is that it would be wise for this repop company to start putting some kind of chassis numbers on these things, as that could make it easier for people to obtain state-assigned VINs and not have to cut one off a donor chassis.
Seems like it would be a whole lot easier to just cut one off the donor chassis.
That’s what literally everyone will do; this argument is more theoretical – as in what are we technically speaking supposed to do if all laws were going to fully complied with, technicalities and all.
If the quality was improved, I could see a distributor picking up 5-10 shells. As far as parts go, it’s not THAT expensive of an inventory to sit on.
You’re right, it isn’t that big a capital investment for a potential distributor. I’m kind of embarassed I didn’t think of that as a possibility…
All you need is the VIN plate, I guess?
I understand wanting free publicity, but I’m kind of surprised the company who made it would even sell their first one to the public. Obviously it’s going to have problems, but the fact they were able to build it into a car which is at least driveable in a couple days gives me optimism for this project.
I’m sure the quality will continue to improve, and if they’re able to partner with a distributor overseas the prices should go down. I’m still holding out hope I’ll one day be able to own an AE86, even if it is a copy (and the least desirable body style imo)
Per the lack of VIN, you could probably register it as a kit car in most states. Or just run without one, half the shit in Ohio doesn’t belong on the roads in the first place…
Agreed, especially since they had to realize that shell was of low quality. But then again, chabuduo is a thing where this was manufactured. Also, it’s not uncommon for companies, especially the ones from Asia, to sell their display parts after SEMA has ended (or any tradeshow really). It’s often easier than shipping everything back home.