With our spy shots of Ford’s Universal EV pickup hitting the market sometime next year, with an expected price of $30,000 and an expected range of 300 miles, all eyes are on Slate, which plans to announce pricing on June 24th.
Slate is having loads of media at an event leading up to that June 24th embargo, not just to capture content with the new truck, but specifically to learn the price; Slate has “hear the price” in its invitation’s subject line. This leads me to think the price is going to be good. At least, that’s wishful thinking.
All we’ve really heard for the longest time is that the price will be in the “mid 20s,” and prior to that we heard it would start around $20,000 with incentives that are no longer here due to changes in the U.S. presidential administration. Since then, Ford announced its EV truck, which in base form is undoubtedly going to be way better equipped than the Slate, which comes standard with crank windows, manual locks, manual seats, and no radio.
I love the idea of a back-to-basics truck, not just because it’s less likely to break and easier to fix oneself, but because in theory, a back-to-basics truck should be dirt cheap. At least, if you’re a legacy automaker with skills and factories and economies of scale.
And so that leads me to a question I don’t have the answer to: How cheap does a 150-mile, crank-window equipped electric two-door pickup truck have to be to be successful? It’s something a number of Slate enthusiasts are asking themselves around the internet.
I’m going to define “success” as a volume of 100,000 units annually. Is that definition based on anything other than my own personal delineator for “high volume”? Not it’s not, and the true definition of success is sustainability for the company. But let’s just roll with that number.
For me the number I’d like to see — though I don’t know if it’ll yield 100,000 sales — is $25,000. This is mostly just a gut thing, not driven just by the Slate’s lack of basic amenities, but primarily driven by the fact that it has only two doors. That, at least these days, tends to be a volume-killer. But cool and cheap is a hard combo to resist. Then again, at $25 grand you can buy a pretty well outfitted Chevy Trax…
The two-door thing is going to be tricky, and I do like the look of the Ford truck, but car purchases are often irrational, and if the Slate is the cooler vehicle of the two, and if it can undercut the Ford significantly, maybe it stands a chance. Maybe they can both succeed; I’m not entirely sure the two are vying for exactly the same customer.
What do you think?
It should not cost over 15k as it appears to be less than half the truck the Ford universal EV truck is, but we know they were originally targeting around $27500 for the base model to get it to 20k when there was the tax credit available plus inflation since then.
I doubt it will come in below $29999 and therefore won’t sell more than 15000-25000 units per anum and be discontinued after a few years if it doesn’t catch on with urban fleets. There’s just not a lot of demand for 2 door pick-up trucks in general and this is way too bare bones for the proposed price range with potentially less than half the range as well as the Ford as they have stated a target of 300 miles, though I expect the standard range to still come in around 230-260 miles.
I would prefer a PHEV or EREV over a pure EV at this point in time but I’ve been living within the range constraints of an Escape PHEV for a little over a year now and a Tuscon PHEV for almost 2 years before that and trying to commute on electricity as much as possible.
I’m not against people having the choice, more competition is good, but I think slate expected to have the market to itself when they came up with those specifications and price point.
I’m firmly in the $15k camp as well which won’t happen. Eek.
$20k. Once you add all the stuff that makes it modern, it’ll be competitive price-wise only if you start at like $20k and go up from there.
I’d say $15k but that’s probably just me that thinks that that’s all it should MSRP at.
Competitive: $24k
What I think they will charge: $27k
What it should cost: $21k
I know someone said it before, and I agree, it’s better served as a fleet vehicle. I will make payments for one at $21k for the base model.
Will these get towed to your house for delivery with an Amazon Rivian delivery van?
Home delivery by… Carvana?
Slate Could Have A Powerful New Friend In Carvana
I don’t see the Slate selling 100K units at any realistic price.
At $20K it might average 25K a year over 5 years.
Here’s another datapoint I don’t see discussed: Buyers of EVs are best served when they have a place to charge up overnight. If an EV is made to be sold to home owners or anyone with a garage or carport that has a charging option (220 v preferred but 120 v can work for most ), then you’re looking primarily at a demographic ( homeowners j who are mid income.
Assuming they can afford the house where they live, they’re probably also willing to pay a little more for the features and functions they want in an EV,
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Slate being the lower priced option will only work for SLATE is it’s MUCH lower priced than the other starter EVs and electric ford trucklet. Maybe it’s a good vehicle for a first time driver, but a used beater (ice or ev) works even better for that user. Mid 20s for the base 150 mile range EV 2 door with no king cab or back seat, radio, or power windows won’t cut it.
Yes, having a place to charge is key. Paying at public chargers puts the cost per mile at par with a gas car and takes away the primary reason to buy an EV.
Check out the subreddit for slate. It gives you a good feel for the demographic that is excited for the scout. Long story short it’s tech guys that own a home. They have concocted elaborate scenarios where it’s a good idea to get because they’re binnual trip to homedepot might make the interior of their model y dirty and it’s a model kit for nerdy car guys. The hardcore defenders for this thing are so deeply lost in the elaborate fantasy that they’re ignoring that the slate made 10 percent sense before the new ford pick up and now it makes 0 sense. If you’re up for collectively car delusion check out the scout subreddit. Half of them are like “well fuck scout now that they aren’t making it all ev first I’m canceling my reservation because this is a deal breaker. It’s deal breaker because they had big plans to pull their big shinny air stream to the Catalina wine mixer. Now their disappointed and sopping up their tears with the paper work for the spare Rivian they bought in place of the Scout
Agreed. You’d have to be a very privileged person to throw new car money at such a compromised vehicle.
Closest they’d get to Catalina is the port of Long Beach, no? What’s the charging/camping sitch there?
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This, as an added hindrance to range, options, service network and base price.
Help me out there used to be small 2 door pick up trucks on car platforms basic options including a rear bumper and it sold for under $10k. If the EV car company can’t make it work why can’t they do an ICE truck. Buy the old equipment put a Toyota engine in it you have a pickup making 25mpg and no one asking for a ride.
I would pay more because its a proper regular cab.
Will you though?
I reserved a Slate, it was on the first day.
I mean…I did as well. Probably gonna cancel though. And then reserve the Ford.
Before I likely cancel that too.
First off, I am biased as I was one who plopped a $50 pre order for these. I loved and still love the bare basics approach to Slate and its ability to customize to your liking.
But, like the Hybrid Maverick ( which I own), Ford may be on to something with their new electric truck entry. Ford has the advantage of economies of scale to keep the price low at about $30K target.
Slate will need to be near the initial $20K starting price to be competitive. (Factor up some up charging for some customization). I also see that these would be great fleet vehicles for businesses. I am routing for them but not going to lie, the electric Ford trucklet has me intrigued.
We own two ice vehicles, a 2020 Ford Edge and a 2009 Mercury Grand Marquis I like the idea of that price point and would look at buying one. My only hesitation is the Fix Or Recall Daily problem with the current Fords. One thing to remember we are both over 70, so it really has to impress us in order for us to buy it.
Even at an absurdly low price (say, under $20k), I don’t think you’re going to be seeing crazy sales.
I know it’s a darling of this subset of the internet for how basic it is. But ultimately, people like and want features, and they’re willing to pay up.
Current employee pricing (offered to everyone) on a Maverick is just shy of $27k. $25k for this thing wouldn’t be a win, and should be laughed at.
I think Slate could probably get by with a $25k entrypoint, they may need to add power locks/windows though. I don’t care about this, but many buyers will.
23.5k for base range battery pack, 27k for extended range battery pack (before customization). Ford will never sell a base truck at 30k or 35k and do a good ole bait and switch like they did with the Lightning.
I hope Slate is successful for so many reasons (lack of data tracking for one), but only offering a 2 door model is going to limit them in the end.
This. The bait and switch plus greedy dealers.
If they can deliver on a truck I can fix in my garage with a $40 Harbor Freight toolset in 1 Corona with beer to spare, I don’t care if the Ford has better features.
It’s a TRUCK. Trucks WORK. May the most maintainable truck win.
Are they scaling up for 100k sales?
Will be a tough sell. At the same time, I’m very interested
According to an interview I read elsewhere the factory is designed for 150k per year once it is running at full speed.
There’s no price at which the slate will be successful. They could sell it for $10k and it would still be a niche vehicle. I just don’t think there’s a market for new electric cars in this country. Until electric cars can be recharged as fast as you fill up a tank of gas, they’re not going to hit mass market. If they stuck a small gasoline or hybrid drivetrain in it and sold it for $19,999, they’d sell a million of them.
I don’t think the Slate’s biggest issue is that it’s electric. Even a gas model would be far too niche to hope for 100k sales.
Agreed that the price doesn’t matter, but it’s the regular cab and lack of basic features that’s truly going to kill it.
Yes, EV does narrow the customer base, but EVs are actually a much bigger market than regular cab trucks at this point.
Given its “poverty spec” lack of anything and its limited range? $18k.
If they do that I’d buy one for shits and giggles
I think 100k sold, at least at first, is going to be tough and as you know I am an ardent, if not a legally blind level supporter. I can acknowledge there’s a steep public opinion cliff to get up, and it doesn’t even have awd.
Here’s why I love it, and why I think people should be re-arranging the value in their heads. It has nothing, It’s simple. Look at what all the hot cars are these days, restomod type Stinger, or whoever the hot designer of the year is. Rich people don’t want these modern shitbox cars they are trying to sell them. They are paying 500k for redone custom classics with modern safety and features. The Slate is the Poor Man’s version of this. Super customizable, super simple, modern safety, “old school” feel. The young people yammering about the downsides never experienced riding in these old cars as a kid, they don’t have the yearning for it. And I think some that are more my age just aren’t looking at this right. It’s a chance to drive around with nothing but the road infront of you, no distractions, just relax and enjoy the drive. It’s like going back to a dumb-phone. Hell, wouldn’t it be a great truck for your new driver kid? No distracting things to make them crash as they learn to drive.
Sure, maybe I’m a delusional nutjob, I can accept that take too! But that’s where I’m at. And looking at it from where I am, 30k isn’t bad, and 25k is a no brainer.
This is all great and I see where you are coming from, but what you’re essentially describing is a luxury experience. Divorcing value from utility, and assigning it to minimalist driving pleasure.
I think plenty of people can appreciate the concept- But is this use case not better served (possibly more affordably) with an actual old truck, Land Rover, or even a sports car?
I think legacy and nostalgia tend to play an important role in these sort of emotional, luxury purchases. I just don’t see the emotion in this product, and at best, this would be a very niche reason to buy a new vehicle.
Ultimately the Slate is still a rich man’s toy, as you would have to have a significant discretionary budget to spend 30k on a new two-door vehicle without a radio. The poor man can find that experience far cheaper, and would perhaps rather avoid it.
Everyone says they want a dumb phone. Of the very few who try, even fewer stick with it for long.
I get what you are saying, but the thing you can get with a new one, is the safety ratings of a new car, which you cannot in any of the old ones. So that is the benefit over re-doing an old S-10. I agree somewhat about poor people wanting more, but still think its a great starter car for your kids and anyone who has enough confidence to not be scared about what other people think. I had a dumb phone for 3 years and had to drop it when Verizon wouldn’t let it sit on their service anymore, so I am the rare bird who really does want the simplicity. For me, it will be a 3rd vehicle that I can use instead of daily driving an f-250 and it hits every box besides being a small gas engine.
Greg, The addition of the S10 to your argument is perfect. Anyone interested in resto modding older vehicles should take a look at the crash testing for the S10. Horrific. And that’s just one example. If the slate can pass current safety regs your argument is powerful and correct.
It is designed to meet 5 star safety BUT it will lack some features that I’d require if I purchased one for my daughter…
No blind side warning/monitoring
No lane keeping
No power door locks
No power mirrors
I think SLATE made a mistake by leaving these out. It’s too simple to the point that it’s dumb.
On the one hand, I don’t anymore know what is required by law.
Having said that…I might go for the blind side stuff, though all of my vehicles ghost nonexistent vehicles enough that you have to keep looking anyway.
I don’t need the rest of that stuff. Power mirrors on a small car? Was that a serious demerit you listed?
For my daughters, yes. I’ve taught them how to use mirrors properly.
Im biased. My 91 Miata has manual mirrors and they get just loose enough to require tweaking. Hard to get the passenger side perfect by reaching over.
Well, it sounds like you are the niche customer this makes sense for. There is certainly a market for these basic trucks, I just don’t think it’s very big for non-commercial use.
End of the day I want the slate to succeed like everyone else. I’d love to drive one.
A $25k or lower price point for the basic Slate seems the likeliest target. I think it would be hard to build it cheaper unless you can find a dirt cheap country to park your production and then you’re facing tariffs.
I’m not buying into the pessimism that a basic, two-door pickup won’t sell. I like it very much as presented so far, with the regular cab being a top attraction. There seem to be many who agree with me. Enough to keep it on the market? We’ll see.
The majority of American adults are single: married vs. unmarried numbers are virtually even with divorced and widowed adults tipping the balance to singles. How many of those single people would opt for basic transportation? One tenth of percent would be 127,000, comfortably past David’s idea of success.
The largest male grouping among singles are males 18-29, arguably the group most likely consider a small cheap car as they’re getting started in life. I’m not ruling out the ladies, just highlighting one demographic that typically likes vehicles like the Slate.
If I had kids, the Slate would be a good car for teens. Can’t carry too many friends at once; won’t easily be heading hundreds of miles away to a concert or something else; not a lot of fancy stuff to break; cheap to operate and – perhaps – to insure, though with teen drivers that’s not a given; it would be useful for chores and possibly some jobs.
Plus, I think, as others have noted, that commercial customers (delivery, meter readers, etc.) will go for the basic model.
For these reasons, I think it will succeed. Especially as the job market is shedding higher paying jobs and growing lower income service work. Younger buyers, and many retirees, are going to Bev more constrained in what they can or want to spend.
I also see the Slate as kind of a truck version of the Miata. Fun, affordable, customizable and personable, but for truck people.
I’ll be watching closely in a couple of weeks to see what’s for real with the Slate. Meanwhile, we don’t really know yet what’s included in a $30k Ford EV truck. Will the $30k be a loss leader tactic like the $20k hybrid Maverick, then pop up to $40k when Ford realizes how many they can sell? Questions. I have so many questions.
It’s very long odds. That 127k have to be buying a new vehicle that’s an EV that’s got a lot of other issues with it that limit appeal, yet almost all of those 127k would have to buy it against more normal competitors from established makes and there would have to be that many of them almost every year if they’re to sell them cheap, which is their only chance at all. The more expensive they get, the greater the competition and less appeal to people shopping in that higher class. Looking cheap doesn’t impress women, something most younger men care about. A lot of single people also have dogs, friends, and family they might drive around, and some people just plain like to be able to recline a seat a little. With all the competitors, someone almost has to want to consciously project an image of being a cheapskate to buy one. See the Tata Nano for how well that went with people who were more broke and whose other options were small motorcycles. With the Miata being a sports car, simple and cramped makes more sense than it does with a truck, it’s legendarily well regarded, is built by a long established make, yet still doesn’t sell.
Don’t disagree with any of your points, just think the worm may be turning a bit.
EVs work best if you have a place to plug them in every night. Homeowners with outlets in their garage or carport. Apartment and condo dwellers without overnight charging aren’t going to interested in a 150 mile range EV, so that excludes a large segment of buyers right off the bat.
Agree. If they come in at below 24K they will sell all they can make because there’s no competition at this price point and there are a lot of potential buyers who are not being served. See sales of the MacBook Neo.
3%. That is the market for *new* regular cab trucks. Most of that 3% are fleet buyers.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that most of the people on the internet claiming to adore this Slate have no interest in purchasing one new. It’s the brown manual wagon of trucks.
As they say, it’s all talk until the cheque clears.
I do think Slate will find customers, but we’re talking Autozone or Orkin pest control, not private citizens.
How many vehicles have actually hit showroom floors at the announcement price?
It seems to me that few new models ever do. I’m pretty sure the FR-S / BRZ was supposed to be $20k and arrived at$24k+. The Volt almost doubled its announcement price (I guess some of that would be the ten years of inflation that happened between announcement and first deliveries).
I don’t think I’ll be able to order an acceptable Slate for $25k, but I also don’t expect to buy a Ranchero for $30k.
The Maverick hit the market at the promised price of “under $20K. At least it did if you don’t count the destination charge.
I expect the Ranchero to have a MSRP of $29,999 and a destination charger of about $2,000 +/-.
And that is for a stripper model, not for something fully loaded. I fully expect Ford to be a bunch of s*** bags and priced the top end above the Maverick
Of course $30K is for the base model. That is what Ford clearly said when they said it would start under $30K
I have no real wisdom to share with regard to the Slate pricing. OTOH, if the Ford comes in at less than $30K MSRP with decent content and range, their US dealer body will absolutely make the process of purchasing one miserable for everyone.
Depends on the dealer. If you’re willing to wait, Grainger Ford in IA takes built to your spec orders at 3% below invoice with a minimum of dealer BS. I think Long
McArthur Ford is similar standard pricing.
Full disclosure: Our 25 maverick hybrid came from Grainger. Took 6 months. Got just what we wanted at a price no dealer within 200 miles would touch.worth the wait and the cheap flight to-pick it up..
Getting one off the lot of course probably means be loaded with crap.
Yeah, but dont you need nitrogen filled tires and glass etching for $2000?
I’m firmly in the target demographic for the Slate truck, and am seriously considering one. I agree with Harvey F below. I would hope to be able to get an extended range one for around $25K.
I would also like for them to offer a cab-height topper (not the SUV kit) for an additional $1K. I need a box that’s separate from the cab to haul my lawnmower, snowblower, and the gas can required to keep them filled up.
In a perfect world, (or California, which is far from perfect) I would eventually have an electric lawnmower and snowblower, but reasonably-priced electric snowblowers aren’t quite ready for northern Wisconsin winters yet.
I’m in southern WI and have an electric blower that my dad gifted me when he moved to an apartment along with a mower that uses the same batteries (whatever that blue Lowes brand is…Kobalt maybe?). It’s surprisingly capable, but it has met a couple storms it couldn’t handle. The mower rules.
My neighbor got one of those E-Z-go electric lawnmowers about 10 years ago and he was able to cut his entire lawn on a charge the first year. The next year he could cut about 3/4 of it before it died and he had to fire up the gas lawnmower to finish the job. The third year it would only make it about 1/2 way before he needed the gas mower, so he got rid of it and went back to his trusty Honda push-mower.
As far as snowblowers go… Last March we got almost 48″ of snow over three days, and I was able to take care of it 16″ at a time with my Craftsman 24″ gas snowblower.
https://ogden_images.s3.amazonaws.com/www.observertoday.com/images/2018/12/02221811/snowfall-in-Cassadaga.jpg
I bet batteries are way better now than 10 years ago, and there’s different sizes that surely make a difference. I have 1/4 acre standard city lot. I could mow it 2-3 times on one charge probably, but I’ve got two batteries either way. The snow blower burns through the batteries much quicker than the mower, so having two is necessary. I was skeptical when I got these things, but can’t see myself going back to gas.
I’d try an electric lawn mower. But I’d have to wait until my gas mower dies, and it’s been going strong since 2003. It’s on its second chassis (the first rusted out) but that little Tecumseh 4.5 hp motor just keeps running year-after-year.
I’d worry that an electric snowblower wouldn’t be able to power through some of our 24″+ overnight snowstorms during our 7 months of winter.
Big fan of Greenworks. Sometime Amazon puts trimmers or blowers and such on sale with battery and charger for about the same price of just a battery. Electric mower, trimmer, blower a 2 electric chainsaws here now. They all work great and replacement batteries are available ( avoid off brands though. They’re crap).
I will still go gas for my snowblower. When I need to mow the lawn, it’s not that big a problem if the battery dies before I get to every corner.
When I’m clearing snow, I need that thing to run until I can get a vehicle onto the street.I have more range anxiety over my snowblower than I do about my vehicles.
My grandfather had an early electric shovel that was corded. Couldn’t handle anything but a light amount of powder, the stuff that was just as easy to push by hand. I have an electric mower with several batteries to make it through the lawn. Leaf blower and hedge trimmers, too, and they’re pretty good on the batteries. A snow blower would blow through them, though.
The price they need to hit to sell is not possible as volume needs to go up as price drops and it’s aimed at too small of a niche, so it’s going to get hammered by competitors offering what far more people want. I don’t think it’s much of an issue of Ford EV horsey X vs Slate, it’s a matter of people not considering the Slate at all because it’s a 2-seater with uncomfortable bolt upright seats (another reason people don’t want single cabs) from a company that could disappear essentially overnight without basic stuff that’s been standard on cars for decades, that you can’t even drive home listening to a stereo on. It’s not angry looking or big enough for the wannabe tough guys, isn’t capable enough for truck people, doesn’t appeal to someone who wants space, and isn’t a sports car, which are the kind of people who’d be more OK with minimal space (and even those hardly sell). Even for the kind of people wanting a small, simple, DIY kind of truck are more likely to want ICE (an overbuilt, lower power kind that isn’t really made anymore). There are only so many ham radio and model train enthusiasts left looking for a cheap EV truck. I wish I was wrong about these kinds of things more often because I don’t see Slate making it unless they can get some mega utility or government order.
Nailed it.
Honestly I think it needs to be not much over $20K if they really want it to be successful. Maybe I’m biased by memories of the late ’90s early 00s when you could get a brand new s10 for under $20k but imo if it isn’t cheaper than a Maverick you’re probably only going to sell to EV die hards and maybe some very specific fleet purchasers that it makes sense for.
Also I may get my autopian card taken away but do people really pine for crank windows?? I’ve fiddled with fixing my share of bad power window regulators and window guides but even as a bit of an automotive luddite I really miss crank windows, which I’ve also seen break though less often. And I like being able to drop all four windows when the weather is nice instead of jumping to AC right away.
Only problems with windows I’ve ever had were crank windows when the cranks broke off, though I think all of my cars had scissor regulators, not those garbage cable-and-nylon-pulley ones, so YMMV.
Yeh I mean broken crank on one car, I had a girlfriend in college with a ’83 Toyota Tercel with like 300k on the clock that one of the crank windows stopped working internally somehow. Pretty sure I recall a buddy’s old chevy pickup having the internals jam up or the glass fall out of the track or something. Don’t get me wrong overall crank windows are more reliable, especially if well engineered and built.
But that’s kind of point, this thing of power windows being unreliable is largely because of the crap pulley style regulators you mention. Which I imagine besides saving money they used to make them faster. The older style ones (which I suppose isn’t going to happen for Slate bc I doubt any suppliers make them) tend to last much longer. In my dearly departed ’83 BMW 533i the PO sold it to me with neither rear power window working (the fronts and the power sunroof still worked) I took apart one of the rears the guides had worn out and then due to disuse the lift had rusted in place, I used some dense cardboard to shim up the guides, soaked the scissor lifts in wd40 and it actually started sort of working again. That’s a 40 year old car with 240k miles on it. My current ’05 Legacy with 199K on the clock has slow and presumably older style scissor lift windows but they still work (though I think I need to replace the guides as the glass is wobbly and starting to get tiny scratches in it)
My sister had an old Maxima with the cable style and the rears both failed. New ones were several hundred each (junk yard ones I found were failed) and the car was on its way out, so I jammed them up, drilled a hole in the door frame, and ran a bolt to hold the windows permanently up. My ’90 Legacy had 270k on the scissor power windows and I used them constantly. It also had a one-touch up/down switch before they stopped making them until they came up with resistance sensors years later.
Haha bolted them in place is a good fix, sounds like the crap cable and pulley power windows on my e46 BMW. That’s impressive re: the OG Legacy!
We won’t have pricing for a week or so (or availability of the add-on top packages), but I would say that $25k for the basic truck puts it at $30k if you add a top and rear seats.
Add other accessories (like a phone holder and bluetooth speaker) and this thing is going to quickly climb out of competitive price range.
It may be time to put Slate’s name on a granite headstone.
Yeah, and Ford’s new cheap truck has the shovel in its hand.
Yeah I can’t see how this will turn out any better than the Ford vs Hyundai match up in compact trucks did. Ford will walk away with the lion’s share of what I expect to be a fairly small segment.
$21,000 out the door. Electric, gas, diesel, hamster wheel, I don’t care. It’s got to compete as a vehicle with A/C being the only comfort option. Being electric isn’t the only reason to buy a car.