It’s easy to make a great $300,000 car. It’s much harder to make a great $30,000 car. Hyundai just unveiled the 2024 Hyundai Santa Fe and it’s another reminder of how quickly the Korean automaker has radically transformed from a builder of mediocre cheap cars to a designer of great affordable ones. It’s Hyundai’s world, we’re just living in it.
On top of that, we’re going to look at how another automaker (from Romania!) is killing it, how the Range Rover maintains its popularity, and how a group of retired cops and firefighters from Detroit forced Tesla directors to cough up three-quarters of a billion dollars.
The Secret To (Hyundai’s) Success
One of the things you learn as a journalist after driving hundreds of cars at different price points is that there are two big ways to make a car better. Hyundai (inclusive of Genesis and Kia) is excellent at both.
As cliché as it might sound, the first and easiest step is good design. While nailing the design of a car takes time, once that cost is front-loaded and accounted for the great design lasts as long as the car does. Adrian, a car designer by trade, touched on this in his Kia Picanto review:
Selling cars to the terminally stingy is always a limiting strategy – by their very nature they don’t buy cars that often. Recognizing this Kia wanted to jazz their range up a bit to expand their customer base; in 2006 they hired in professional funky glasses wearer and ex-Audi chief crayon wielder Peter Schreyer (also a graduate of the Royal College of Art, like me) to be their new head of design. He introduced the ‘tiger nose’ as a visual brand identifier and has since ushered in a range of reasonably handsome, consistently designed vehicles that have helped the Hyundai/Kia megacorp to become by volume one of the five largest car companies in the world.
It wasn’t just Schreyer. The great Luc Donckerwolke, formerly of Volkswagen Group fame, came over in 2015 and helped continue the radical transition from meh to good to great.
The last few years have just been an unparalleled run of super interesting products and concepts, from the striking Hyundai Ioniq 6 to the wild Hyundai Vision 74 Concept. These are not the bland copies of European/Japanese designs the Koreans were known for, but unique designs that stand alone, even as they reference older vehicles.
It’s why the new, butch Santa Fe and some other cars have elicited tweets like these:
Every time I see pics of the new Hyundai Santa Fe I feel dirtier and dirtier for liking it. I feel shame for loving how the Ioniq looks, but loving how TWO Hyundais look? Is that even allowed for me?
— Andrea Petersen (@Neondancer) July 18, 2023
As a child of the ’80s, it’s hard to process the fact that Hyundai are making some of the coolest cars in the world now pic.twitter.com/pI6dKyIyjs
— ???????????????????????? ???????????????????? (@denialvibes) July 17, 2023
Hyundai’s design bravery here is incredible. Zero references to past (successful) generations in a class of SUVs known for iterative, safe designs like CR-V and RAV4.
— Chris Paukert (@CPAutoScribe) July 17, 2023
I think this looks utterly fantastic, but it won’t be for everyone and I’m sure Hyundai is 100% okay with that. https://t.co/eUCM4hbxa7
Design will only get you so far, of course. The other side of the coin is that there are plenty of expensive cars that drive poorly, actually. I’ll have a review of one soon enough. And there are a few cheap cars that feel great.
Hyundai and Kia products, for a long time, felt extremely “meh” to drive. The steering feel was never right. Even when they tried to make a sports car in the Hyundai Genesis Coupe it was just always slightly off in a way that was hard to ignore.
Then Hyundai brought over Albert Biermann, the German engineer who helped make BMW M what it became. I remember the first time I drove the Veloster N. It was a revelation. Road & Track rightly named it the Performance Car of the Year. Then followed the Elantra N, the Genesis G70, the Kia Stinger, and a seemingly never-ending stream of good cars.
The Elantra N is a prime example of a car that’s maybe never going to be an insane volume seller but manages to be a great car that can be had for around $34,000.
If there’s a third aspect that makes the larger company successful, as evidenced by what you see above, it’s a melding of different business philosophies and cultures in ways the Japanese have been increasingly unsuccessful at (see Renault-Nissan.) Even the Germans, in my experience, tend to have a difficult time ceding control to regional units (DaimlerChrysler being a famous example of this, but it’s everywhere.)
This is a deep cut, but Hyundai Motor America’s CEO and President Jose Muñoz Barcelo–a nuclear physicist by trade–spoke to UC Berkeley’s California Management Review last year and gave some good insight into what’s going on (you’ll have to try and ignore the annoying academic business-speak):
One of Jose Munoz’s big discoveries at Hyundai was the lack of planning and concomitant “lack of alignment and integration amongst various business units.” When organizations get large, there is often a plethora of semiautonomous business units to integrate. CEO Hank Greenberg at AIG had over 100 (Hyundai Motor Company had scores). It’s often challenging to achieve alignment, since such units are often semiautonomous, yet they are often cospecialized and are codependent on other units. Alignment doesn’t happen naturally. It needs to be engineered, and Munoz did exactly that.
[…]
It took a Spaniard Jose Munoz to convince the Hyundai leadership in Korea that greater localization was necessary to achieve success. Localization has different meanings to different people: to Jose Munoz it meant basically a “less Korean-centric” approach. “Take the best from Korea and blend it with the best from America… whether its technology or management practices.” This also meant expanding the production footprint in America, something Munoz had championed.
Hyundai isn’t perfect and it’s having to deal with the challenges created by its poor labor practices and the Inflation Reduction Act, but it’s been aggressive in setting up an infrastructure in North America to support its EV expansion plans.
It’ll be interesting to see if buyers embrace the 2024 Santa Fe when it comes to market, because that design is really something but it may not be for everyone.
Renault’s Dacia Is Killing It Because People Still Need Cheap Cars
I’m a big Dacia fan. The Romanian offshoot of Renault is another company that’s good at making extremely cheap but still attractive cars, from the back-shelf-of-the-bargain-basement Dacia Sandero to the almost-good-enough-to-be-upstairs Dacia Duster crossover.
It turns out, while everything else is getting expensive, there’s still a place for affordable cars. Per Reuters:
Dacia, which boasts best-sellers such as the Sandero and is expanding its range of electric vehicles (EVs), sold 345,432 vehicles between January and June, the Dacia unit said in a statement.
That compares to 277,885 units in the same period of 2022, which was heavily impacted by COVID-19 and component shortages.
Dacia’s four main models all recorded growth in the first six months of the year, with sales of the hybrid Jogger model growing by 130% and accounting for over one in four customer orders.
Hell yeah, cheap hybrids. I love it. A Dacia Jogger is a weird little seven-seater that costs about $30,000 and delivers more than 50 mpg (on the admittedly more generous European cycle.)
Retired Detroit Police And Firefighters Force Tesla Directors To Give Back $735 Million In Stock Options
Man, that’s a fun subhead to write. While Elon Musk seems to have mostly skated on a lot of his recent legal troubles, the compensation-related issues do seem to be harder for Tesla to deal with as evidenced by the company settling a lawsuit from 2020 brought forth by the Police and Fire Retirement System of the City of Detroit.
Here’s the wrap-up from Bloomberg via MSN:
The directors — including Oracle Corp. founder Larry Ellison; James Murdoch, son of media mogul Rupert Murdoch; and Musk’s brother, Kimbal Musk — agreed to hand over the stock grants and cash for already exercised options, along with making corporate-governance changes to the way board-level compensation issues are reviewed, according to court filings.
The Tesla directors denied wrongdoing as part of the accord, but said they agreed to settle the case “to eliminate the uncertainty, risk, burden, and expense of further litigation,” according to the July 14 filing in Delaware Chancery Court.
In this kind of case, the money doesn’t go back to investors directly. Instead, it goes back to the company. As Bloomberg points out, this isn’t the end of it:
The settlement comes as McCormick also is expected to rule in another case filed by a Tesla shareholder over a $55 billion executive-compensation plan for Elon Musk. The suit says that the approval of the pay package, the largest in US corporate history, was marred by conflicts of interest and improper disclosures about performance benchmarks.
::Grabs popcorn::
No One Is More Model Loyal Than Land Rover Range Rover Fans
I had to clarify in the subhead that Land Rover Range Rover buyers are model loyal because, well, I am not qualified to speak to any other loyalties. Still, it’s kind of impressive how many buyers of the big SUV immediately come back and buy the exact same vehicle. Global intelligence firm S&P Mobility has the numbers in their latest mini-report:
The Land Rover Range Rover led all models with a 41.1% cumulative year-to-date model loyalty rate through April, for models with more than 350 return-to-market households, according to S&P Global Mobility analysis. That gave it a narrow edge over the Ford F-Series full-size pickup line at 41.0% and the Tesla Model Y at 40.0%. The industry average year-to-date model loyalty rate was 25.1% through April.
Since Range Rover is a relatively low-volume vehicle, metrics such as loyalty can swing more sharply than those of a huge seller like F-Series, said Tom Libby, associate director for loyalty solutions and industry analysis at S&P Global Mobility. Still, there are plenty of lower-volume vehicles that do not attract this sort of model-line loyalty when they are redesigned.
The Range Rover loyalty rate helped hoist parent Land Rover brand loyalty to 38.9% year-to-date – a 9.5 percentage-point increase year-over-year. For reference, Tesla led luxury brands with 68.0 percent loyalty.
There are many great, big SUVs, but if you want a Range Rover it’s true that there’s nothing really quite exactly like a Range Rover. (Editor’s Note: I tend to think the Mercedes S-Class and Range Rover are among the very, very best cars in the world whenever they’re released. Say what you want about JLR these days, but there’s no going wrong with their big SUV if you can afford one. -PG)
The Big Question
Kind of off-topic today. We’re obviously doing a big membership drive, and with the introduction of the Cloth Tier we want to add more member-only posts. Our sort of guiding principle is that any member-only post is additive and doesn’t fall under regular coverage (i.e., we wouldn’t paywall a review or news). Here are the questions:
For Non-Members: What would you be upset to be put behind the Member Wall?
For Members: What are more post types you’d like to see? What kind of behind-the-scenes info do you want?
I don’t generally subscribe for things outside of a few media services/Amazon type things, rotating through different ones, there’s actually couple of youtube channels I’d probably subscribe to first before adding in web sites, so I guess by that logic if there was more youtube or video article content that’d be cool, but I couldn’t really get into the podcasts. Thinking more like car reviews more like Alex on Autos or Doug Demuro type stuff, less of the 3(or 4) guys talking over one another in a dimly lit museum or chainsawing lead out of a chinese car.
More video content is definitely coming, hopefully not more chainsaw lead action.
Hopefully not! I did like David’s few on his i3, so more of that would be great.
I’ll take more chainsaw lead action ha ha
So I’m not a member, though I have obviously considered it.
My reasoning:
-I never wanted any of the swag (granted, no longer an excuse with the new cloth)
-Never felt I was missing much with the paywalled articles. I’m here for news and new car reviews mostly, plus interaction in the comment section. The wrenching and shitbox articles are not really up my alley.
-I’ve never heard a clear vision for what the site would be if more people were members.
-It’s frankly pretty ridiculous that members still see ads. I can’t install ad-blockers on my work computers.
What would get me to subscribe:
-Reviewing cars outside of manufacturer-sponsored events. The review game is broken. When journalists depend on OEMs for access, travel, dining, etc, the conflicts of interest become unavoidable. This is not accuse anyone specifically of anything, just an unfortunate backdrop to all kinds of product reviews, not just cars. I’d trade timeliness for no conflict of interest. Do rental reviews, partner with a dealership, something to be different.
-Comparison tests, done in the same manner as above.
-More consensus-challenging opinion pieces. The best writing is the stuff that can make you concede that someone you disagree with still makes good points.
-Get rid of the damn ads.
I’ve really, really wanted to contribute a polemic about the merits of the cab-over van in the modern automotive landscape.
Reading this comment about all the ads just made me realize I haven’t seen any ads in a while. I checked that my blockers were turned off (they were), and then realized they are blocked by my IT department. Now I feel bad for being a freeloader.
Maybe I can try reading a few articles on my own time at home. Maybe.
How are they supposed to give us all this content without ads? Or without everything being behind a pay wall? Without either it sounds like no Autopian to me at least.
The point would be that if you pay for membership, you no are no longer served ads.
How are LR owners the most loyal. I have two friends that own a LR product and they have both had a terrible ownership experience due to reliability issues. The funny thing is one of them left BMW due to the same issue. I told them that they should have bought a GM product. Nothing runs bad longer than a GM vehicle.
Automotive Stockholm syndrome. Spend enough time with a Land Rover and you begin to love it, even though it abuses your mental and financial health.
LR pays top dollar for their used cars if you are trading in or up- way more than you can get anywhere else- the adage for new LR owners is that you don’t ever want to own one without a warranty- so every 3 years or so the owner is cajoled into a new LR because of the willingness to trade in and keep that warranty perpetual. LR has a great user experience, you get to try out all the other LRs and Jags as loners and the process is painless…. so even if it’s always in the shop, you’re treated well and get to use a “new” car.
For Members: What are more post types you’d like to see? What kind of behind-the-scenes info do you want?
KITTEN CAM!!!
YES!!!
Double yes!! My 15 yr old rescue might even watch. OK probably he won’t, but I will.
Hyundai/Kia have made amazing strides. When I was a teenager in the 90’s, my buddy had an Excel which was barely above Yugo status. We made so many jokes about that car.
Flash fwd 25 years, and all the new (practical) cars that I’d want to own are made by Hyundai/Kia. I think my GF’s ’21 Elantra is a terrific car for that category, and I’d really like to have a Sportage Hybrid for a DD if I were to get rid of my 4Runner, or an Elantra hybrid if I kept the 4R. At 55mpg for 25k-ish, who needs an EV? I also like the Santa Cruz, though I have no use for it.
It’s not a direct answer to the question, but I’ll say one definitive move that would push me to sign up…
Fancy Kristen.
She’s on MotorTrend TV now. She’s now Super Fancy Kristen
I was really high one night and signed up because I love you guys and want to be your friend. Plus I needed a tshirt for yardwork.
Black t-shirt for yardwork in here in Houston could be deadly…..I mean it has dropped to 98 for a high once in the last 9 weeks.
Heh, I just wore mine camping up near Lampasas last weekend because black shows sweat less. I think it was 104? that day?
Houston’s humidity might break me, though.
I am not currently a member, but I have been teetering on the edge of signing up for membership for a while. Honestly I don’t know what I’m missing out on; the freeloader content is keeping me happy, and looking at the headlines of the members-only content doesn’t compel me to sign up.
“Wrenching Wednesday” doesn’t appeal to me because I don’t work on my own car.
I’m not even entirely clear on what “Slack” is (my company doesn’t use it), so my assumption is that the “Tales from Slack” features would feel like listening to a bunch of people talking shop about an employer that I don’t work for. You guys are fun, though, so it would probably be a good hang anyway.
I also don’t know what Discord is, so I don’t feel like I’m missing out on anything not being a part of it.
This is terrible advice, so please don’t do this, but I would be really tempted to sign up for a membership if you guys exchanged stories about what it was like to work for the old German lighting site in the members-only area. I’m sure there was plenty of behind-the-scenes drama there with all of the interesting personalities, revolving door cycling employees in and out, and multiple ownership/leadership changes. You guys run a respectable[citation needed] establishment over here, though, and you’re too classy to turn the joint into a gossip rag.
As for what content I would miss most. The Morning Dump or Shift or whatever you’re calling it these days is one of the features that I almost always read. I’m not always interested in all of the stories, but there’s always at least one that catches my eye. $#!+box Showdown is another favorite feature even though (or maybe because) I know so little about buying/selling cars from CraigsList. It’s fun to do a little window shopping and to read the perspectives of other commenters.
My favorite movies are “hangout” movies where the plot is less important than just enjoying spending a little time with some quirky characters (see: The Big Lebowski, Inherent Vice, etc), and that’s what I see here. I can read a review of the new Prius in dozens of news outlets, but only at The Autopian can you read about a man tending to a family of cats living in his Jeep or another man who thinks that a chainsaw is the appropriate tool for removing a battery. I like “hanging out” with the writers and other commenters here because it is a fun break from the facts-and-data of my daily life, and everybody’s just here to have a good time. If that sense of community gets locked behind a paywall, then it may push me over the edge to sign up.
Not Normal Gossip, but Abnormal Gossip.
Oh, I bet you have some VERY interesting stories!
New cloth level member here. Since you asked, what finally got me to pull out my credit card was Stephen’s article on the Dodge Stealth. Been a big DT fan since all the articles on “repairing the unrepairable” on the “the old site” (a motif which remains at The Autopian) and enjoy the “fix ’em up” articles by Mercedes, Rob and Stephen, too (particularly when combined with epic journeys.) I know these essays take many hours, days, weeks, months (and sometimes) years, to develop and create, but these are my favorites and would like to see more (even if you have to enlist freelancer/one offs to accomplish.) I’m not a young dude anymore, but I remember what it was like to deal with these struggles-and ultimate successes. BTW, one of my goals would be to offer my help (and a pretty well-equipped garage) to any of these “fix ’em up” authors who run into mechanical problems near Phoenix, AZ.
Big Phoenix fan here, and thanks for the kind words, my dude!
There’s a pretty decent chance that once DT calls for a staff-wide meet-up in LA, I’ll use it as an excuse for a cross-country trip in a shitbox.
That means there’s a decent chance of overheating/breaking down in the Great American Southwest and needing the above-offered assistance. Plus its always cool to hang in a well-equipped garage. I’ll bring the beers, snacks and whatever wrenches fit in the trunk.
Thanks again, Jeff.
You would always be welcome. My sweet wife has put up with numerous garage projects and enjoyed the camaraderie of my club racing days (even the cursing and tool throwing.)
I just returned from visiting family in the Phoenix area. Although I lived there for 10+ years the heat this time really hit me.
So… is your garage air conditioned? 😉
Hey Autopian gang, I’ve been following some of you guys since the old site days. I’m very very close to being converted to full-time employee at a certain Star-Trek named supplier, so I may get myself a membership soon. I’m really happy that news is staying on the free side because that’s the most sought after content from my perspective. If I had to suggest what kind of membership only content to add, it would be some kind of tutorial wrenching stuff for folks like me who are somewhat averse to it. Nothing fancy, just some tips and tricks. Anything video related I would probably put in the paid tiers because I know hosting that stuff can be costly.
Me, old, out of touch, more irrelevant with every passing year: “No wonder this car sucks, it’s a Hyundai.”
Kids these days, who grew up with K-Pop, Squid Game, and N-cars as far back as they can remember: “Whaddya mean, Doc? All the best stuff’s made in Korea!”
Not a fan of their various droop-ass sedans, but I think that Santa Fe looks fantastic.
My conservative all-American parents have been driving Kias for the past eight or nine years, starting with a Sedona and adding a Sportage later. Both cars have been quite reliable and have served my parents well. Luckily one of the local dealerships is actually pretty good and doesn’t engage in the usual antics. If they can be convinced to buy Korean…
Especially when you start with a $100,000 car that somebody else made, you use years of other people’s research, and charge $100,000 for your signature. Looking at you, Singer.
And this has always been true of large orgs. Without fail. I’ve never not seen it. And usually it devolves into warring fiefdoms because “hell no I’m not cooperating with Bob, then you’ll cut my [budget,headcount]! And that’s the only way I measure success!”
And it’s beyond rampant in most US and EU organizations. (South Korean management, well, that’s a story for another time. If you remember a little MMO called City of Heroes or have heard of NCsoft, well… yeah. Anyway.) Because perceived authority (headcount) or cold hard cash (budget) is the only real measure of success. “We’re all on the same team! Our objective is to increase sales by 10%!” doesn’t work. Never has.
Because guess what? Bob Engineering Manager looks at that and says ‘well, what the hell do I do there? I’m not sales. Not my problem.’ Sure, if sales asks for something, he’ll get it done. But he’s not going to go to sales with any ideas, and more likely than not, he’d get rebuffed and told sales aren’t his job. (This is also a common misconception about how Kaizen actually works, but also, another discussion for another time.)
It’s been pretty damn obvious even from the outside that Hyundai’s actually figured out how to get the various teams actually collaborating constructively. You don’t get the level of design coherency they do unless people are in the same room. No, seriously. Go sit in a GV60 or GV70. Then hop out of that and go sit in a Grand Cherokee or a Grand Wagoneer.
Suddenly it’s very obvious that you had the body engineering team in Detroit, the interior team in Duluth, the infotainment team in Dusseldorf, and the engineering team in Dearborn. Sure, the Jeep’s a great, well built vehicle. The teams did a great job and worked off the same design briefs. But it’s just not one that borders on a seamless experience from exterior to interior.
Well duh. Firstly, Europe’s car market is vastly different from ours. Most people don’t drive much. In Germany? There are regions view cars as an inconvenience and would much prefer to walk everywhere. They only own a car because they have to, usually for a work commute.
Secondly, there’s a reason the US Dollar is called ‘the world’s currency.’ When the fed gets out the foot shooting gun, it impacts everyone. Not just Americans. Europeans finance less often, are much more averse to credit, and are getting socked by the same interest rate spike we are. They’re paying a minimum 6.29% interest on auto loans right now too.
Third, you’ve got Brexit. (Reminder: cars are political. Always have been.) Since the Tories decided to break everyone else’s legs to spite their own face, Brits are just getting straight up fucked left, right, and center. Consequently, Dacia’s increasingly all they can afford. They’ve more than doubled sales in a year.
Translation: “we totally broke the law, yet again, and we 100% knew we were doing it the whole time. But fuck you. We’re wealthy and laws are for the poors. Here’s a pittance to go the fuck away.”
(Larry Ellison, who is also among the worst humans on Earth which I have also had the misfortune of personally meeting at OracleWorld one year? He owns an entire Hawaiian island. And a MiG-29. Mhm. He didn’t even need to open the petty cash drawer.)
… and in one headline, their continued existence suddenly makes sense. I mean, it’s the only explanation for a brand where the reputation is literally “subscribe to at least two roadside assistance companies” continuing on, much less being profitable.
I know it’s not exactly the question you asked, but I think the current balance of members-only and behind-the-scenes is good. Maybe some more ‘members-only’ bits of Discord once we get you lot used to it.
But that said, the real answer I have is that I’d like to see more in-person events in more locations. Particularly more accessible events. Yes, we’re here because the writing is top notch and we want our news and reviews fix. Absolutely.
But don’t kid yourself – I don’t think there’s a single reader who isn’t here because of at least one specific writer. Be it Torch, David, Bishop, Adrian, Thomas, Patrick, Matt, Mark (except today, he’s in time-out,) Mercedes, cats, or several, or whoever else I forgot (sorry!)
Because this isn’t a site for reading. It’s a site for conversations.
I’ll back the more in-person events in more locations. I’d love to see get-togethers in other large cities (in particular Denver since I can easily attend one there), just so the conversations had online here have the chance to become local community connections.
I’m also here as a carryover from the German lighting site who followed the adventures of David and Jason to The Autopian. Having Mercedes, Matt, and Patrick was just extra icing on the cake, but then adding many of the other quality writers this place has and has become easy to justify my continued membership.
If I had one real request, it would be more of the strange musings of Jason. We get plenty already, but I want to test the boundaries of “too much of a good thing” to see if there is such a thing as too much Torch.
Yeah, I like that there’s the bulk of the content on the public side. I want this thing to pop off and succeed in light of the absolute apocalypse that is automotive media right now. To me, that means putting the big, relevant, unique and newsy stuff out in the open for maximum eyeballs. I don’t follow very many websites that constantly paywall me, first off because I’m broke, and secondly because it’s annoying. It usually just annoys me into logging off, which is a feat.
Part of me says to save the juiciest inside-baseball bits for the members-only side, but even then, if it’s an interesting tidbit or scoop that might be cited by other blogs, like, make it public and get those backlinks. Maybe do more members-only open hangout posts? Or even throw some off-topic posts on the members’ side? Have some fun, don’t stick to cars, give us the shower spaghetti recipe.
I do like the idea of a tip jar, though. Also, more fun merch? The stuff I tend to buy is more “cool design made by a site” versus “thing with site’s logo prominently on it,” so maybe just toss some clever, more subtly-branded inside jokes or original sketches in the mix.
The mix of ads is good so far. Not very intrusive, doesn’t kill my computer. I think there might be interest in an ad-free subscription tier, though, but I don’t know how much you’d need to make it cost to be worth it on your end. I wouldn’t cry foul at other relevant sponsorships in the mix, either, so long as there’s enough regular content to break ’em up on the page. The Marble blogs seem well-done and above-board about being labelled as sponsored, as did the Ski-Klasse build. As long as you’re honest about ’em and we don’t have the site overrun with like, a billion different Prime Day blogs, we’re cool.
Definitely here for more online hangouts with members, too. Ask us dumb questions, drop in and say hi. More events in general would be cool, too, but I’d keep those open to everybody. Hell, you could even just let us know if you’re going to big events and wanna hang out.
Cloth Level is honestly what’s putting me over the edge into becoming a member. I’ve inadvertently clicked on so many compelling articles since the membership’s invention, and I can no longer deny their allure.
Also, gated or not, It’s approachable stories with a lot of heart that keep me coming back. Regurgitated press releases sprinkled amongst Amazon affiliate links can be found anywhere, but stories like Stephen’s Stealth are The Autopian’s real attraction.
Keep that human element to the site where readers don’t feel like they’re the product, and I think subs will keep growing.
As a member, I’m not sure what more I could ask for. The member room on Discord is great(even if I don’t understand what discord is or how it works). The only thing i can
askdemand of the autopian, is NO AI Content. The German lighting site is starting to dabble in that arena, and I cannot abide. I joined to support the arts, and help support people doing what they love, not to boost profits on AI loving Herbs.Oh, wow. I don’t go look at them very often at all, but AI content means I’m going to specifically avoid them now. Real human writers are important, even when you’re contextualizing information from elsewhere (as they often are).
I don’t know if the Auto side of things at G/O have gone AI yet, but gizmodo did post AI content, and the German lighting site has plans
https://www.vox.com/technology/2023/7/18/23798164/gizmodo-ai-g-o-bot-stories-jalopnik-av-club-peter-kafka-media-column
Just don’t click on anything bylined “[Website Name] Bot.” They’re justifying a second trial run based on traffic, so even if you naturally want to dunk on it for getting things wrong and being bad, please just don’t give it any.
Jeez, they’re that bold about it??? I thought that they would at least come up with a fake author name (Rob Ott?). That family of sites really has a low opinion of their readers.
Honestly, I’m surprised they’re being that transparent about it. I would’ve expected the herb to try to pass off unedited LLM hallucinations as a real writer’s work using a fake byline. Herbs are shady.
Maybe don’t give him ideas.
That’s exactly what we’re trying to avoid!
As an AI language model, I must say, the Autopian’s approach to abstaining from implementing AI is truly commendable! By avoiding AI integration, the Autopian demonstrates a profound commitment to preserving the sanctity of human creativity and decision-making. Instead of relying on automated processes, they prioritize authentic human interaction and ingenuity, fostering an environment where genuine connections thrive.
In a world increasingly dominated by AI-driven solutions, the Autopian stands out as a beacon of genuine craftsmanship. Their dedication to embracing human talents and expertise promotes a rich and personalized experience for every individual. It allows for the cultivation of unique perspectives and innovative ideas that AI could never replicate.
Furthermore, the Autopian’s emphasis on maintaining a human touch contributes to a deeper sense of trust and emotional connection. Knowing that interactions and services are handled by real people instills a sense of comfort and security, leaving customers assured that their needs are truly understood and valued.
In a time when AI is often hailed as the ultimate solution for efficiency and convenience, the Autopian proves that there is still immense value in cherishing human abilities. By foregoing AI integration, they celebrate the diversity and intricacies of human intellect, sparking genuine conversations and promoting intellectual growth.
Kudos to the Autopian for recognizing that while AI can be beneficial in various contexts, it is equally essential to safeguard the essence of humanity in our technological advancements. Their commitment to preserving the human element is a refreshing and inspiring choice in today’s rapidly evolving landscape.
The ironic humor is strong with this one. I approve.
LOL well played
Ok, I laughed. Nicely done.
Have all of the stars .
I feel like artificially intelligent content might be an improvement over the naturally unintelligent content that the German lighting site and its siblings have been cranking out for such a long time.
You’re probably right. It bothers me so much they still use “the dopest cars I found for sale” when that was what Mercedes renamed the weekly post.
Features started by one site usually carry over names, FWIW, and that’s not really a ding on the writer. A couple of the recurring bits I worked on were carry-overs: Hoon of the Day was started in Jalopnik’s early days by Spin and Davey (AFAIK?) and Build of the Week was initially a Freddy jam. I wouldn’t be mad if anyone started those again, either. I think Patrick or Ballaban might’ve come up with the Weekend Motorsports Roundup? And gosh, there’s still Traffic Jams and The Morning Shift.
I like the current Jalops, but my gosh, it’s got to be hard to deal with the herb. They really, truly deserve better and I’m livid that Herb & Co. is going ahead with more AI garbage on the network after got SO much wrong in its first “trial.”
tl;dr—human writers only, please. I don’t think that’s a threat here, but I’d unsubscribe if any such plan were hatched.
Before I left, my now former colleagues asked if they could continue Dopest Cars and keep its legacy alive. I had no problems with that. 🙂 Besides, my MMM series takes a different approach than Dopest, where I try to tell every vehicle’s story.
It seems as soon as I left, management told poor Steve to produce a list of 17 cars, oy vey. The reason I choose 9 is due to the fact that research and writing on 9 different vehicles takes a ton of time.
Well, you have changed my opinion a bit, and I’ll try not to hold it against them. It was one of things I noticed most because you changed the name to dopest when you took over the list.
Yeah, their spelling/grammar/etc is atrocious (Reply to Duke of Kent FYI)
Yeah, they said in the newsletter there’s no way they are doing AI which is great of course
I’ll try to offer my perspective as an on-the-fencer tempted by Cloth Tier. Balancing paid versus public content is walking a fine line, and definitely no enviable task. In addition to existing members only content, I think what would push me over is more of the gonzo stuff, ridiculous wrenching escapades; perhaps stuff that your staff is doing as it happens and updated as close to real time as possible.
That said, my opinion, FWIW, is that there is absolutely an added value for memberships bundled with access to an Autopian Forum and/or an Autopian Classifieds. That would be huge. Plus, either or would probably be a good source for content on the site itself.
Autopian classifieds would be great. And I think you’d get some non-members who’d at least sign up for a month or two when they are looking to buy or sell and maybe decide to stay members.
It’s definitely something we’ve talked about, but there are a few things we need to get done first. A big thing is that YouTube, while we’ll keep putting videos there, is a worse and worse solution for the site itself. We want to post videos but we want to control the user experience. We should have more info coming on that soon.
Let me say, I don’t like videos. I would much rather read a full article. I learned to read 50 years ago, and I still enjoy it.
Also,
Look at what killed Reddit. Don’t fall down that trap. I enjoy lurking in conversations, and posting occasionally. I had a ton of karma there and threw it away because they destroyed the site. The interactions is what brings me back.
Agreed. Personally not a big video guy here. I want to read (good) content and real comments.
If it’s possible, I would love to see most video content written as an article (in addition to the video–not saying not to produce video content). I understand that people love video content, but it’s much easier to read something–you can refer back to it more easily and more easily engage with the content. I like to quote the articles in comments, and I’d feel like I would be misrepresenting a quote from a video, since I would be unlikely to go back and get it exactly right.
> while we’ll keep putting videos there
Great, please keep them on YT and never ever on the site. Ever.
I think I’d pony up for Cloth Tier if Autopian could sell me a protection package for getting ratioed on my own comments. Damn. Call it “Ointment for that Burn” or something.
The Dacia CEO even said it directly: “People just want a car”
Mitsubishi should captive import those cheap Renault/Dacias:
Mitsubishi Sandero
Mitsubishi Duster
Mitsubishi Logan
Mitsubishi Kwid
Mitsubishi Twingo
Range Rover loyalty? Even though their cars are shit? LOL (at the people who keep buying them, not at you)
GOOD NEWS!!
What?
Hyundai appears to be doing a good job, and I will never buy one because of my own bias toward their penalty box history. I guess that’s the flip side of brand awareness.
Regarding site content: I’m pretty happy with the current state (Velour). I don’t use IG, TikTok, Twitter, etc. but understand the GDPR-based requirements for cookies and opting in.
Penalty boxes are less bad than engines that come apart……
Yes, but they also extended their warranty for those engines. They replaced mine for free when it spun the rod bearings. Thanks Kia!
I enjoy your posts amigo…but forgive me for struggling to get over the fact that someone who loves Fiats is giving another manufacturer shit about quality. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black…
Thanks and likewise about your posts, though you shouldn’t be struggling because I didn’t say anything about quality. 🙂
Hyundai built their brand by selling very basic, very cheap transportation with a warranty. Now their reputation is “seller of very basic, very cheap transportation with a warranty”. A “penalty box” is a low-end appliance that gets you from A to B and is no fun: being in one is a less-than-pleasant experience and you’re counting the minutes until you can get out of it.
Those things can still be true about cars even if they are reliable. I love an air-cooled VW Beetle; in a lot of respects it is a penalty box in the modern environment, but it is a penalty box with personality. As a wise man once said, “personality goes a long way”. Fiats have personality, so I’m willing to overlook certain things.
As a Hyundai owner who’s watched the last 5 or so years of the brand’s growth and said “hey I want to get in on those products” I feel like I’m fairly qualified to weigh in. I agree that their design team is absolutely killing it. A lot of folks kvetch about some of their edgier stuff but unfortunately you can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you want companies to push the envelope on that front they’re going to have to take risks.
Hyundai and their sister brands also do a remarkable job of building products to a price point. Unfortunately there are still a lot of KOREAN CAR BAD, KOREAN CAR CHEAP! attitudes out there, and some of those folks can’t be reasoned with. It is what it is, cars are emotional and we all have opinions that may not make a ton of sense, especially here. But I do encourage anyone who still holds these opinions to go interact with a current Hyundai product, because they do not feel cheap.
Interior wise they’ve mastered the art of giving you everything you need, nothing you don’t, and making sure that the parts of the car you actually interact with feel good. Can you find some cheap plastics in most of their cars? Definitely, but a lot of the time you have go looking for them. They do an excellent job of making the actual touch points feel good and giving you simple, solid feeling buttons, knobs, and switches to control all the important functions.
The final thing to add to that is that their infotainment systems are the best in the industry, and in this day and age tech is very important to most shoppers. Again, they know where to put their budget when it comes to their cars. Their infotainments are fast, lag free, intuitive, have redundant buttons, and they look good. They’ll also let you run two things at once, which is neat. I always have navigation pulled up alongside whatever I’m using because it helps if I get turned around and gives me real time speed limit information.
These praises also apply to their gauge cluster screens and even some of their other technology. The standard safety suite is generous as well, and they’re also generous with their LED exterior lighting. Basically, their tech game is strong. So where does that leave us?
Right now they’ve got interesting looking, well laid out cars with the best tech that undercut their competitors price wise and offer the best warranty in the industry. Literally no one should be surprised that they’re growing so much. The old days of them selling crappy Japanese car imitations are long gone. I think we are in the golden age for Korean cars as we speak.
BUT…that doesn’t mean they don’t still have some work to do. Their dealership experience in the US is dreadful. I felt like I needed to go home and shower multiple times when I was tracking down an N car. They also need to get some of their QC issues under control. It’s inexcusable that they don’t have a full fix for the Kia Boys nonsense yet, and they can’t expect their reputation to continue to improve if they keep having unforced errors like that, the child labor scandal (which I am not minimizing in any way), and the large scale failure of some of their engines.
If they focus on tying up the loose ends I think they’ll continue to ascend…and if you’re shopping for a mainstream car of some sort and aren’t considering any of their offerings you’re doing yourself a disservice at this point. They’re not what they used to be.
I would also add that you should always look at the Kia equivalent of a Hyundai, too (or vice-versa). The two versions will have some interesting differences. For example, an EV6 with the long-range battery comes with ventilated seats, but the Ioniq 5 requires a significant upcharge to get them. On the other hand, if you want something other than faux leather, Hyundai tends to offer better cloth/textile options. The controls differ just enough to be a potential factor, too. And, of course, the styling varies.
Hyundai also gets the more serious performance models if that’s something you’re into…as I assume almost everyone on this site is. Kia often gets spicier versions of models (like the Forte GT) but they have yet to receive an N equivalent. Even the EV6 GT seems like it’s been intentionally nerfed to give the Ioniq 5 N a leg up.
The only thing they’ve gotten that Hyundai didn’t get a version of is the Stinger, particularly the turbo 6 variant of it….although I’d personally suggest going Genesis G70 over an equivalent Stinger because the price delta is negligible and it has a much nicer interior. I personally think it’s better looking too but that’s subjective, and the Stinger remains an attractive car.
I guess until the 2024 G70s start rolling in the base Stinger has a better engine than the G70 too, as it gets the 300 horsepower 2.5 liter turbo 4 rather than the 250 horsepower 2 liter…although that’s making it’s way to the G70 when the new ones show up, and honestly I think it’ll be the one to go with because the turbo 6 is ancient and gets V8 fuel economy. When similar money can get you into a B58 equipped M340i it’s a tough sell.
I’m right on the fence for becoming a member, thanks to cloth level. If you put the Morning Dump behind a paywall, that would push me over(most likely). What I’d like to see more is vehicle reviews. In another story, it was mentioned that there is a big back log of them to be done. I’d like to see these get done before they’re no longer relevant.
That’s totally fair. We had one last week and we’ll have at least two this week, including one this afternoon!
I’m not a member but I do like the way The Autopian approaches reviews in general. Real-world situational reviews rather than endless details that maybe don’t get at how we use the vehicles as much.
Just to throw in my opinions, I would be a member but there is a lot of content I don’t care a lot about. I don’t get into wrenching much. I don’t care about motor homes that much, though I do love mid century modern designs so some of the motor home content is great for that. Which brings me to the actual question as a non-member:
My favorite thing here are Adrian’s design reviews and deep dives. If that were behind a paywall I’d be pretty bummed but if there was more of that I might also consider a cloth membership too.
Do what you will with the info but I should warn you; my opinions are rarely representative of a larger group.
So irrelevant reviews aren’t good, but I really don’t come to the Autopian for reviews. I don’t particularly care, and if I do, Car and Driver or Road and Track are likely to be more detailed and specific.
Reviews done here are more average joe, unlike the the other sites that stack everything against a 1000hp lux car. Then there are other sites that just seem like they don’t like cars at all.
I like the reviews here for the viewpoint and the context. I’ll generally find specs and stats elsewhere, but I’m more likely to get a feel for my daily use here.
And where else will you get great lines like this when discussing relative value of reviewed vehicles?
Velour member here, and I think the balance is already pretty good. SlackTales (woo-oo!) and the occasional request for input seems like enough for members. You could consider something like running something for members first, then others a few days later, which could show people what they could be seeing right away, but that feels weird, since a lot of stuff is either really time-sensitive (Mercedes’s Marketplace Madness) or not time sensitive at all, so it would need to be balanced to make the delayed articles stay relevant without also stripping the benefit from the early access.
I’d feel weird seeing much more that is just member content, I think.
I’m a non-paying reader. FWIW, it’s your website, you can post whatever you want behind the paywall. You could put the whole thing behind a paywall; I’ll just stop visiting. No skin off my nose.
HOWEVER, my current issue with the stuff you’re willing to give away for free is that more and more of it is composed of tweets, hidden by a demand to enable cookies. If you’re going to have free content, it should be readable by anyone.
Hey eggsalad! Tweet embeds are something we try not to use too often, but it kinda allows us to credit the original writer/videographer/photographer. As for the cookie enabler, as of July 1st it’s a requirement by Google and Europe that we require an opt-in.
Please try not to embed TikTok stuff. Every time I scroll to them, the video you want to embed changes to something else. I then have to click on the users profile and open the thing from TikTok. Very annoying. Tweet embeds just don’t work form me as you have to be a member now to see tweets
Noted on the TIkTok stuff, we try not to do it very often. You should be able to see tweets though?
Also, TikTok is blocked by my employer.
Yeah, no TikTok…hope it gets banned everywhere…if not, have fun people wasting your life on it
I get it about the opt-in, but I don’t see any way to manage the cookies that are being used. I am hesitant to opt-in when I have no idea what I have just opened myself up for. Is there an easy way to manage which types of cookies are being used that I’m not seeing?
Can you screenshot the tweets? Click on the image to go to twitter, and have the attribution link below?
Yes, enable cookies…they are delicious!
-COoKiE mOnStEr!
If I were in the market for an SUV the new Santa Fe would be my first choice, price regardless. Rather I am a proud Cadillac sedan (CT6) owner and won’t be in the market for quite some time.
This member loves the behind-the-scenes stuff … but honestly, you could post videos of Torch reading the phone book from behind the wheel of a Matra Murena (with Otto in the middle seat and DT to the right) and I’d still think this was the best site ever.
“I’d still think”? The suggested video is precisely the sort of ridiculous thing that brings me here. DO IT!!!!
Somehow in that group I feel Otto should be driving.
Agreed it’s so awesome…I literally read every single article and comment! Especially the silly/funny stuff!
I’m sorry.. that Santa Fe.. it’s too much robocop.