I truly believe that the most important hurdle for electric cars is not range anxiety or charging infrastructure. It’s price. The huge spike in EV car sales before the expiration of the tax credit is proof of this. The market still hasn’t produced enough cheap, good and new EVs in the United States, but the used car market is starting to drown in them. Now is the time to strike.
Yesterday’s Morning Dump exceeded 300 comments, which is a little above average, and I thank everyone for their thoughts. It seems like we were able to come to some consensus here, though you can’t make everyone happy (and most of those unhappy people were on BlueSky). Today’s TMD dovetails nicely as the used EV market further proves my point. Kia is also helping to show where demand is as the company is starting to produce hybrids at what was once the EV-only Metaplant, although that’s as much a tariff story as anything else.
While tariffs are encouraging hybrid production here in the US, in the EU they’re driving more electric car manufacturing. Those cars will be built by a Chinese manufacturer while existing under a typically British brand. Are brands important? Stellantis seems to think so, which is why it has 9,000 of them.
The Off-Lease Stampede Has Begun And It’s Good For Consumers
I wrote in January that I’d “Wait a little longer to buy a used EV.” If you’re in the market, I wouldn’t wait any longer. Here’s the logic behind this:
- We are at the beginning of the off-lease explosion.
- Gas prices will likely be elevated for a long time.
As I discussed in the last post on this topic, there was a quirk of the now-demolished Inflation Reduction Act that meant that most electric cars were actually leased. To get the tax credit on a sale a car needed to be built in the United States and contain batteries that weren’t primarily sourced from China…. unless they were leased. The reasoning behind this was that President Biden didn’t want to piss off his European and Asian allies–back when that was something the executive branch cared about–so he allowed a loophole for leased vehicles.
Here’s a chart from S&P Global:
All you need to know is that the orange cars are leased. This chart doesn’t include Tesla, but you get the idea. For about three years, a huge percentage of non-Tesla electric cars were leased and, even then, a lot of Teslas were leased as well. The funny thing about the period being three years is that’s also approximately how long most leases are. You can see where this is going, via Cox Automotive/Manheim:
This shows when leases are retiring and, in theory, those cars reenter the market as nice used cars. You can see that hybrid and ICE leases seem to follow a relatively predictable sway depending on larger market conditions. EV leases, though, rise dramatically and hang out there for a while.
As Bloomberg reports, this is currently leading to a rise in people buying EVs, timed well to the conflict in Iran:
Close to 40% of used battery-powered cars currently on dealer lots are priced below $25,000, according to researcher Cox Automotive, roughly half what the average new car sells for in the US.
[…]
The average list price of a used EV is around $35,000, only about $1,000 more than an equivalent pre-owned gas-fueled car, according to Cox. On a six-year loan, the $20 difference in monthly payments is negligible for many buyers. In the high-volume compact SUV segment, the price gap has nearly disappeared between battery-powered and gas models. The average price disparity is closer to $6,000 in the overall new-car market.
This is a fun way to do the math, which is that it’s about an extra $20 a month over a six-year term. I don’t normally look at the car market that way, so I definitely borrowed this concept from my pal Keith this morning. As Manheim pointed out, though, the higher gas prices are starting to move the market a bit:
Three-year-old EV prices have outpaced non-EVs for six weeks in a row and are 11% higher than where they started the year. The longer gas prices remain elevated, the more we expect consumers to turn to fuel efficient vehicles. As EV lease maturities continue to increase throughout the summer, it will be critical to follow EV price trends—especially if the Middle East conflict remains unresolved.”
If you’re not really looking to buy an electric car right now, I think the next big opportunity is early next year, before refunds roll out and after, maybe, gas prices have come back down to historical norms.
The Metaplant Is Now Making Kia Sportage Hybrids
The last time we spoke about the Metaplant in detail it was about the immigration raid that took place there, and a lot has changed since then. One of the biggest shifts is that the Metaplant, which was theoretically designed to make EVs, is now making Kia Sportage Hybrids. What gives?
“This is an exciting moment for all of us at HMGMA,” said Tony Heo, President and CEO of HMGMA. “Through the dedication of our Meta Pros and the strength of our flexible manufacturing system, we have successfully prepared to produce our first hybrid vehicle and our first Kia model. Today represents an important next step as we continue building the future of mobility through world-class manufacturing here in Georgia.”
If you think this is just about EV demand you’d be wrong. This is also a story of tariffs, as Automotive News points out:
With production of the hybrid version of Kia’s top-selling model, the Sportage crossover, shifting from South Korea to Georgia, Hyundai Motor Group expects to see its $5 billion tariff bill ease.
While there are a lot of costs associated with shifting production from South Korea, that 15% tariff adds up real fast.
European Tariffs Have Driven MG To Build In Spain
The last time I was at a car event in the UK there was a big MG display and it was crowded with people. Did they care that MG is now owned by Chinese automaker SAIC? No one I talked to seemed bothered. Did they care that the cars were built in China? It didn’t seem like a huge deal to anyone.
That’s Britain ,and the EU has a different view, having passed on tariffs to stop the continent from being overrun with artificially cheap electric cars. This has resulted in production for electric vehicles from Chinese ventures in Poland, Hungary, and increasingly in Spain, which is where the new MG plant is going.
Establishing manufacturing in the EU would allow SAIC to reduce the impact of tariffs as Brussels intensifies scrutiny of Chinese electric-vehicle subsidies and competition in the market. For Chinese automakers, building locally is increasingly seen as essential to sustaining growth in Europe and reassuring governments that investment will bring jobs, suppliers and industrial capacity.
MG is already the best-selling Chinese brand in Europe, and this will likely help it expand.
Stellantis Really Doesn’t Want To Seem Like It’s Just Rebadging Cars
I don’t know if I trust Stellantis to make a t-shirt. I do think it’s possible for the automaker to differentiate its product, though, as a Jeep Renegade and a Fiat 500x (or even a Fiat Toro). The company finally explained how it’s going to break out its many, many brands by having core, regional, and specialty brands.
Now, in an interview with Autocar, European boss Emanuele Cappellano goes into some more detail:
“We really don’t want to be misunderstood when we talk about what is a global brand, what is a regional brand, which is a specialty brand,” said Cappellano. “We are not ranking the brands in terms of relevance. The point is how we can be smart in terms of capital allocation.
[…]
“In the meantime, we’re working on the following launches on the same platform, where most of the effort, in terms of capital expenditure, is on diversifying – really diversifying – the models and line-up and not just rebadging.
“So you will have the new Peugeot first and after that you’re have a new Vauxhall that is not a rebadged Peugeot, then an Alfa Romeo, a Jeep or whatever.”
I don’t know why, but a “a Jeep or whatever” is funny to me.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
This is the “Very Unofficial Scotland World Cup Song” by some guy named JJ Bull doing his best James Murphy impression. This song is meant to be humorous, though, as my friend Dan notes, “this joke song uh rips.”
The Big Question
What’s the best deal in used EVs right now?
Top graphic images: Ford; DepositPhotos.com
So here’s the thing. I went through this just last week.
We had a 2023 Grand Cherokee 4xe – WELL over its mileage, but I wasn’t concerned because my plan was to buy it at the end of the lease, anyway. Ally even threw a $5K reduction at the buyout cost. That should have been a sign.
You see, it didn’t work out. Because nobody would write a loan for me to purchase a 60K mi 4xe for $34K. And yet….
No problem financing a MORE expensive 23 Grand Cherokee with the Pentastar.
“The LTV is out of whack on that hybrid – it’s like 190%” was what we figured out.
That’s right. A car with a $63K sticker turns out to be worth about $17-$18K wholesale after just three years. Mileage overage aside, that’s a TON of negative equity. Where did it come from?
Some of it is due to the fact that it’s a Jeep. Stellantis has had never-ending problems with tis 4xe powertrain. And now it’s an orphan, since they killed it. The recalls, failures, buy-backs, and consumer complaints were loud and constant. Those are an electric cherry on top of the normal residual beating a Stellantis vehicle seems to take, though the Grand Cherokee has been a bit of a slow-depreciating champ for its entire existence. The WLs are probably less so.
Our experience with it, in terms of the nightmare reliability issues and failures other people have reported, was good. It did a few whacky things (shut itself completely off on the highway with my wife and her mom in it, for example), and a certain set of conditions would cause an electromagnetic field to escape the wire shielding during regen and trigger a “service hybrid system soon” warning (with charming wrench-that-looks-like-a-lobster-claw icon. Very New England). They told us not to charge it and make sure it wasn’t near combustible stuff for a few months while they worked through the 68C battery recall. One in a string of battery and charging system software recalls, updates, etc.
It was otherwise solid, in that sense. It was CLUMSY AS F*CK though. The handoff between gas engine (The GME is clattery trash, btw) and electric motor was VERY rough for the first couple weeks, and it never got slick like a Prius. It was nice to charge and get 30 miles on battery. It was quick and torquey (if also herky-jerky).
The brakes were super-weird. The pedal feel, digitally-generated as it was, was deceptive, and I would always be rolling way too fast with far too little space when approaching a line of traffic at a stoplight.
It was a good highway cruiser. It was VERY efficient for a Grand Cherokee – especially in-town.
Comfortable, nicely appointed. UConnect 5 is stupider than earlier versions – too much stuff in it, too many icons, too slow, weak processor, takes forever to wake up in the morning (like 3 miles into the drive and it’s still super laggy).
Car review aside – the MAIN REASON it’s worth so little, is that it was a lease, and you’re damn right I took advantage of the IRA tax credit. Which means the dealer got $7500. And that means the car was instantly worth $7500 less.
This is the case with *EVERYTHING* coming off lease right now. They’re underwater in terms of LTV for a buyout. Dealers and finance companies will provide plenty of rebates to get you into a brand new 2026 model to keep the metal moving and the factories going. And with the economic situation right now, many buyers are monthly-payment shoppers. A lease on a new car will sit your monthly payment in the same place (or lower) than it had been from what I just saw out there.
In my case, I didn’t want to finance the negative equity for another few years, because that’s dumb. We used the miles, I’ll deal with that separately.
But I also didn’t want to lease again. So we bought used. And though we bought a gas car, we could have gotten a used 4xe for a VERY VERY good price. (Again, not the albatross to hang around your neck).
All this to explain a little bit: Used EVs and PHEVs are screaming deals right now. But that’s going to come to an abrupt end when the gas price skyrockets in July. So get it now, or you’re going to see even more price hikes as the market adjusts demand to meet the moment, and dealers are sitting on a LOT of inventory that’s suddenly worth more because of a fuel price crisis.
The best time to buy an off-lease EV or PHEV was February. If you missed out on President’s Day and Memorial Day, and you’re shopping, I don’t anticipate it getting any cheaper as we head toward the summer, because we’re in a special season of stupid right now.
The flip side, too, is that EV ownership is delightful. They drive fantastically well. Charging is not an issue, you just need to look out for where you can charge and keep your range in mind. Kinda the same as a gas car, but with a different set of infrastructure. They are legit cheaper to run. Even if you don’t have solar. They’re better for the air we breathe, even if you charge with coal-fired electricity. And they’re a great driving experience, usually. The 4xe was at its best in EV mode, for sure.
By “whacky”, do you mean “whack” as in “try to kill”? Because I’d put “shut[ting] itself completely off on the freeway” closer to “life-threatening safety issue” than “harmless quirk”
Yeah – it wasn’t just a quirk. And it felt potentially deadly. At the very least quite dangerous. Many documented cases. Only didnit twice. Two times too many.
That’s some residual value loss right there!
I was thinking the same. Even if it “only” happened once, well you can’t die twice so…
To be fair, a few weeks ago when my i3 was transferring over to the range extender on the highway, it limited itself to 35 mph few a few miles and I’m still driving it. I guess we all have a level of stockholm syndrome when it comes to our cars…
Yeah this. I’m confused about a couple of things from all this tale:
A. Why did Dan even want to keep a vehicle that tried to kill his loved ones?
B. Why did Dan want to buyout the lease on a vehicle with nothing but problems, depreciation like a rock falling off a cliff, and an orphan powertrain from a company like Jeep?
A: Overall, we liked the 4xe. It got its software updates and recalls and had been behaving itself for the last several months.
B: We knew it was going to depreciate kinda hard, but this was epic compared to expectations.
B2: It wasn’t an orphan when I hatched this plan in 2023. It was just recently they decided to pull the plug, as it were.
B3: Our ownership experience wasn’t full of wailing and gnashing of teeth. The car was good for us, other than its inherent flaws, like the under-developed powertrain. I joked that it drove like a prototype, but honestly, I was just telling the truth.
A lot of EV praise from you the last few days but then you buy a gas car? Why’s that?
I am an enigma wrapped in a puzzle.
Situationally dependent and brand preference. As I said, the 4xe is not the PHEV you want to own long-term. So if you want to stay Jeep, your choices are used w/Pentastar or new w/Hurricane.
I’m sure the Hurricane is a fine-driving engine. It’s got more peak torque and a much fatter torque curve thanks to that turbocharged bandwidth. However…I’m tired of owning turbocharged 4 cylinders, as someone who commits hard and keeps the vehicles for many years (I was intending to keep the leased 4xe, at first). I’ve never had a turbo fail – they’re reliable, but they do eventually leak; externally and into the intake tract. Underhood temps are brutal. And I know and like the Pentastar; its the PUG version of the 3.6 we have in our 2013 WK2.
Doesn’t mean I don’t want to go full EV at some point, right now, this was the right decision for this purchase.
I’ve been on a similar schtick lately. I keep eyeing electric and PHEV options at different prices but I’m picky about things that many folks around me may not care as much about.
(F-150 Lightning is too big, others have no spare, I would prefer some V2L options, cellular opt-out, I’d have to see if I can stand the Solterra/bZ’s (and similar) lack of glovebox, display position, etc.)
I like my 4Runner a lot and it’s almost certainly going to stick around as my daily but I can think of only one other person I know who I would recommend it to while there are definitely more than a few folks who would be well-served by something electrified.
Clarification: The *finance company* got the tax credit, not the dealership. So the IRA, with so many leases happening, was a pretty big gift of our tax dollars directly to automotive finance companies. You’re welcome, Ally.
Can’t say I’m too mad about it. I probably would be if I looked into the details more.
True but most of those finance companies passed the full $7500 credit to the customer. That is how we got crazy low monthly lease payments. That and artificially inflating the residual values.
The dealer that I bought my EV at had several off-lease Grand Cherokee 4xe models on their lot for staggeringly low prices. They had a 2023 Summit Reserve 4xe with 20,000 miles on it for $25k that briefly tempted me. The more I looked into the issues the more I talked myself out of it, especially since the GC really didn’t fit my long commute as well as a normal hybrid or EV would. I think I made the right call going BEV, especially since I still have my built TJ for doing Jeep things with.
That’s a lot of car for the money. 25K is spot on
God, I wish this were a “special season of stupid.” This is just another bad season of stupid compounded by whatever the stupid season equivalent is to global warming. Global dumening?
See, I left out the “b” because I’m so clever!
https://youtu.be/yBjtFyTvCHQ
We’re on the third sequel of the same shitty franchise. Ronnie was a better speaker, but it’s the same old nonsense.
He really did ruin everything.
I don’t think we’ve seen the bottom for used EV prices. A lot more of them are coming off-lease, with may of them from states with their own tax incentives that further reduced the initial price.
I’ll be returning my Ioniq5, and the lease buyout is still $30k. I would be surprised if the best comparable examples are selling for $20k by the time I turn this in next summer. I’ve already had trade-in letters from my dealership offering less than $15k as a trade.
Used EV prices have started to tick up, at least in some areas.
It’s going to depend on how hoghbgas proces go, and for how long.
I feel like we’re seeing the thin edge of the used EV wedge.
Price ticks at this stage are dealers trying to cash in on gas prices, not necessarily tied to actual used EV demand or supply.
Probably. Anything fast is a local action. On the other hand, there’s fewer used cars in total to go around. The delta isn’t small compared to historical inventory levels. Just in time for people to be pushed to used vs new for a whole bunch of reasons.
I purchased a Chevy bolt manufacturer buyback w 23k miles in 2023 for 7k after the 4k tax rebate. Immediately it threw the battery replacement code, and the dealer replaced it while paying for our rental and the GAS used in the rental! Paid cash for the car that is even still under warranty for another 5 years and hasn’t needed any maintenance. Even still on the OG tires at 45k miles now. Possibly the best car purchase I will ever make in my life. Hopefully my daughter can use it as her first car in 12 years.
We had 2 Bolts (a 23 EUV Premier and an 23 EV LT-1) – both outstanding for what they were. We purchased both new with the old tax credit.
Family needs changed over the past 2 years. We sold the EUV to Carvana after 2 years and for $26K for it (we originally paid $33K) – not bad for 2 years of driving and less depreciation than I expected.
We also sold off the EV to CarMazx for $16.4K (Paid 22K for it) – also less depreciation than I expected for 2 years.
Both cars were worthy, sounds like you got a great deal!
yeah its a great car! tempting to trade in with the KBB at around 13k at the moment but we might as well just keep it forever. The wife actually loves driving it and its perfect for her 45 mile commute.
Yes the bolts were a stupid good value with the tax credit, so much so that the depreciation was very little in comparison to most cars. I paid $20K for my 2023 new in Feb of ’23 and sold it for $19K in January 2025 with 20000 miles on it. That was only $1000 of depreciation on a brand new car after 2 years and that was after all the crazy covid price increases so not related at all to that.
The Bolt is fantastic, and I’ve heard several stories like this.
Nice work!
We got a 2022 EUV Premier Launch Edition last year for my son to drive. I specifically was punching VINs into the GM Recall website to see if batteries were replaced under warranty and what the new warranty was. It was a great way to get a couple extra years and about 30,000 mile of extra battery warranty. It was really a bargain compared to nearly everything else out there. It’s been trouble free so far and it’s roomy, very speedy and well equipped for a economy car/commuter car. Ours has heated seats in both rows, cooled seats in the front, supercruise, adaptive cruise, and a big sunroof. What else do you really need? Just don’t get it for long trips if you need DC Fast Charging, since it is super slow to charge or look at a new 2027 Bolt if you need faster charging, but you won’t get carplay and AA on the newer one. .
We got a 2018 2 years ago and it’s been a miracle. I want another.
Also worth noting:
Those lease-returned vehicles are going to probably all wind up in the wholesale market instead of being purchased by the original leaser (leasie?) . The only data point I have is my brother had leased a Kona EV for 2 years. At the time the lease was a no-brainer only $220 a month all-in for 24 months / 12K miles a year max. Worked out great for him.
When it was time to return it, they really wanted to buy it, but the contract buy-out was $29,000! He asked and asked for a fair deal but NON-NEGITIABLE. Way, way over-priced for the current used market. He handed it back in (no hassle) and found a new Ioniq 5 for $33K at another dealer (see my other post). Nice step up from the Kona.
The dealer said the Kona was going to wholesale. They weren’t interested in putting it on their used lot.
Leases are owned by the finance company, so usually a dealer can’t really do anything about the residual price. If they don’t want to retail it for more than the residual, it’s going to wholesale. Same reason I’m not buying my Ioniq5 off lease. The residual is about $10k more than I’d reasonably pay for the thing.
The residual on my SEL is $30k. I have more than a year left and dealers are already asking less than that.
I may be willing to keep the vehicle if they’ll sell it at market price. Other than that I’ll just buy a comparable one at a 30%+ discount.
Yes, that’s called the Residual and was spelled out in his initial lease contract. Generally, the car has to be worth way, way, way less than this value for the leasing company to negotiate, and they would have already attached that as a note on the lease return. They have already priced in some delta between market value and Residual, sounds like your brother’s Kona wasn’t one of the ones that tanked far enough to trigger the exceptions.
The opposite case also happens, where certain cars (limited edition BMWs are my immediate memory) end up with market values way above their Residual, so the customer can just buy out at Residual (per the original lease contract) then turn around and sell it on to the dealer, pocketing a nice chunk of cash. Not a very common situation though.
Almost everyone whose lease ended at the height of the post Covid car shortage ended up buying at residual, many just kept the car but some probably did sell it back.
Ah, that is true. Such a whacky time for everything.
I recently purchased one of those off-lease EVs to replace my worn-out hybrid commuter. I was initially looking at buying another used hybrid, but took a glance at the EVs on the lot. In my case, I found I could get a 3-year old used EV with 12,000 miles for the price of a 3-year old hybrid with 60,000 miles. More profound was the hybrids in that range were lower trim levels, while the EV I picked up was the top trim. I luckily have a horribly inefficient beater Jeep to fall back on if I have issues with my EV, so the risk is relatively low for me to give one a shot, but the upside is pretty high on cost savings (my $10 per day of gas commute is now less than $2 of electricity).
What’s the best deal in used EVs right now?
You can snatch up a CitiCar for under $6k right now. You’re welcome.
Re: Used EV prices, I’m actually living this right now, but from a different direction.
The value of my 2023 ID.4 PRO is getting closer to ICE prices, but only because its value is actually rising (at least according to the Carmax tracker). It cratered to $14k about 6 months ago (for a $46k MSRP!) and is now approaching $18k as gas prices continue to rise. It’s likely other EVs may be in the same boat.
I leased it and then bought it out to take advantage of the Fed incentive. Thankfully, NJ had no sales tax on EVs in Feb. of 2023, and I was eligible for the full $4k incentive from ChargeUp NJ, so with the Fed rebate, the car was a more reasonable $35k……the depreciation still hurts, but at least what I owe on the car is now getting close to the value. I didn’t think that would ever happen, let alone during the first three years or so of ownership.
I feel like the Ioniq 6 is probably the best value in used EVs (EV depreciation + anti-sedan sentiment = deals). They are pretty easy to find under $25K with under 25k miles when most other cars around that price these days are previous generation platforms with less range and charging speed. All I6s in the US got heat pumps and the redesigned cooling loops that eliminated the need for the expensive low conductivity coolant which is an improvement on the pre-2025 Ioniq 5s.
Of course, there is always the looming ICCU failure hanging over every Hyundai/Kia EV.
The ICCU failure is certainly an issue on these. However, I obsessively researched it before buying our Ioniq 5. Failure rates are at about 5% for the post NACS redesign and is generally in line with the failure rates of modern ICE engines. It’s not a super difficult process either for a DIY job if it pops after the warranty.
Also it’s just the 800v EVs. The 400v (Niro and Kona) are without issue.
Hyundai extended the warranty on older Ioniq ICCUs to 15 years ! My used 24 had it swapped out already so hopefully I’m good .
That math doesn’t math. Any ICE engine with a 5% failure rate within the warranty period would rightly be ripped to shreds. Exhibit A: The GM 6.2L debacle. It’s well below 5% from what I can find, but it still prompted a massive recall.
Which is fine if you can get the part. Most of the ICCU replacement horror stories I’ve seen involve parts shortages because they’re having to replace so many of them.
I didn’t say it was exact but it is in line with the industry at large.
The 6.2L you noted is thought to have a failure rate of between 3-5% so right in line with my figure.
Then there are the failures that don’t trigger recalls like Hondas 1.5l that had huge head gasket issues and fuel dilution issues.
The savings of driving on EV power over gas far exceeds a mere $20 per month. That’d be a slam-dunk decision, easy.
NOTE: the savings far exceeded $20 per month when gas was just $2.50/gallon. Right now the savings are even bigger.
TBQ: If you live in a SFR, can get the electricity for free from your employer and if your commute is short enough to have most of a full charge left after a round trip I’d say an identical pair of used 2013+ LEAFS. Set up the home for V2X, charge one at work and run the home on then other. If they’re going to make you RTO rather than WFH you may as well stick it to them where you can.
About time to figure out if what we spend on gas for a 20 mpg paid-for car would be better spent on a payment for a second EV. I’d be open to a Kia EV6. Not a Hyundai since the local Kia dealer is part of a competent dealer group while the local Hyundai dealer isn’t. Maybe an ID4 if the price was right.
Keep it under your hat, but 2-3 year old Lucid Air GTs are getting very affordable.
Holy crap, you’re right! I’d never even bothered to look….
I have been keeping an eye on these.
With the continuing Mideast developments, I couldn’t help but hear this:
“This is an exciting moment for
all of us atLord HMGMA,” saidTony Heo, President and CEO“The Toadie” of Lord HMGMA.The Big Q? I’ve been eyeing these somewhat closely and I’m still leaning towards used Bolts, but the Ioniq 5s have been popping up more and more in the low 20’s and seeing some low-mile Mach Es at that price have gotten me to start thinking about broadening my search horizons. Of course, I still have that roof to pay off and my daughter’s college orientation was yesterday so there’s a good chance I’ll just keep putting miles on a combination of my ’07 RDX, ’94 Fleetwood, ’66 Biscayne, ’00 XK8 and 2012 Volt (when my wife isn’t using it). They’re all paid for.
We own both a bolt and an EV6 (same platform as the Ioniq 5, E-GMP)- the bolt is definitely a city car, easy to maneuver and park. The EV6 has much better ride quality and noise isolation, as well as far more room for the back row though at the cost of a cruise ship turning circle.
For long distance travel the E-GMP fast charging is still world class. Really depends on what you’re looking for to be honest.
My son has a Volt and an Ioniq 5; we just got back from a trip to/from NE Iowa, about 800 miles each way. My wife has no experience with EVs and so was extremely trepidatious for Son and DIL while we went in our PIH RAV4.
Long story short, Son reports the EV was flawless. Smooth, quiet, and stopping every couple of hours for a 20-30 minute charge while they walk around, shake out the fatigue and maybe grab a snack was about the way they would have traveled in the Volt. It was completely transparent from an experience standpoint, it just required pulling up to a different kind of pump.
That’s great to hear – I still haven’t really considered a full BEV as a trip car, although my cousin just bought a new EV-Equinox RS and road-tripped it through the Midwest without much issue. He said he was directed to a charging station somewhere in Missouri without any functioning chargers. When he found another place, the “fast-charging” really wasn’t so fast and ended up sitting an hour or so. Still, this was his first EV of any sort and he actually expected more hiccups along the way.
That EV6 sounds like another tempting possibility based on qualities I like in a car, although I think my wife would prefer the useability of the Bolt. I have to admit, largely because how good our experience has been with the Volt (bought used in 2016 for $11,500 and have done next to nothing for maintenance for the last 100,000 miles), a used Bolt or Bolt EUV will remain high on the possibility-list.
I have 2 paid off cars, I still cannot justify starting up car payments to save on gas. When my JKU or Pacifica dies then I will be shopping for a plug in EREV.
“What’s the best deal in used EVs right now?”
I suspect it’s the Tesla Model 3 SR+ or higher.
Tons of them out there and they’re getting dirt cheap. And their design is relatively simple compared to the Model S/X and thus, less to go wrong on them. And they have decent range and have good all-around performance.
Honorable mention to the Chevy Bolt. All of them have newer batteries than their model years would indicate due to the recall.
I’m one of the folks who can’t charge at their dwelling. Even I’m starting to pay attention to the used EV market, but any purchase will be dependent on the cost per kWh at public chargers. What’s the EV equivalent of GasBuddy.com for EV charger rates?
Plugshare is probably the best overview, but doesn’t always have full info. Then specific networks such as chargepoint to get more detailed info.
Things can change constantly, some of the operators seem to change prices on a whim. What might be a free charger at a grocery store for months might suddenly be more expensive than everything else around.
I looked at plugshare and none of the chargers in my area have rates listed. I’m not sure how that’s helpful to my cause, but thanks.
Many times Plugshare had pricing info in the past, but maybe they’ve sorta given up because it’s tough to keep up with pricing changes or display time-of-use pricing. I’d definitely try to figure out what the charging costs are for big, reliable charging sites near you, like Tesla or Ionna, and you can do that via the Tesla app for Tesla chargers, or the Ionna website for those. Depends what options are around you.
Thanks. It appears that juice will cost me $0.39 per kWh at local public chargers. Gas is still cheaper for me. Problem solved.
I was just going to say the Electrify America charger at my local Walmart is .40 per KW. I have .15 at home…
I believe both Electrify America and Tesla have a monthly subscription that slashes the kWh in half. I think it’s about $8/ month so pays for itself with one charge. Just mentioning it in the event that you wanted to do more research.
It’s probably directly related to per-kWh prices coming from the utilities, and how much they are paying on the wholesale market.
They certainly vary dramatically, and you’ll pay higher rates for the faster the charger is. In some cases the rates fluctuate based on time of use pricing from the utility. In Denver, there are free level 2 chargers in some municipal buildings like at rec centers, so you can actually “fuel up” for free if you have some time on your hands. I just recently plugged in at a chargepoint station at a rec center and while you are limited to 2 hours of charging, getting 50 miles of free fuel isn’t something I’d complain about.
Even worst case pricing at a very fast charger, I’ve figured charging my EV costs about 50% less than filling up a car that gets around 20 MPG. Charging at home is by far the cheapest way though. I can get 200 miles out of about $8 worth of electricity.
Yes! Right now EVs are great bargains, both gently used and new!
Some actual real-deals we’ve had in our family…
My 2024 Ioniq 6 EV LIMITED trim AWD had an original sticker of over $56K. I purchased it this past January for $28K. A C.P.O with only 6,000 miles on it. Probably the best used car deal I’ve ever gotten. (purchased on line from a Hyundai dealer in Indiana, shipped no charge to my home in TN).Last year, my daughter’s sig other purchased a 23 Kia EV-6, 4,WIND), also with an original MSRP of $56K with only 4,000 miles on it for $22K (might have been a buy-back but didn’t see that on the car fax). Hell of a deal there too! (Purchased from a local KIA dealer to her in Baton Rouge, LA)Also last October, my daughter purchased a brand new 25′ Ford Escape PHEV, also with a sticker around $54K for only $27K. NEW! 1/2 off!!!! Goes 35-30 miles on battery before the ICE kicks in, and gets low 40s MPG around town once the battery is depleted (just becomes a very good hybrid). Another great deal on an electrified car. (Purchased from a local Ford dealer in Memphis, TN).Last month my brother purchased a brand new Hyundai Ioniq-5 EV, single motor, SEL trim, sticker over $43K for $33K. Not quite the 1/2 off deal of the gently used EVs, but still you can see that even the new EV pricing is getting a hit since the used prices are so low. (purchased from a local dealer to him in Louisiana)
Worth noting that the Hyundai/Kia brands have 5 year / 60,000 mile bumper-to-bumper and 10 year power train warranties, SO… gently used low-mileage examples are low risk. ..
…and after all, all cars become USED CARs once you drive them off the lot.
For ICE Hyundai/Kias, the 10 year powertrain warranty only transfers on a CPO car, not a regular used car.
It looks like some (all?) of their EV powertrain components do keep the 10 year warranty as a used car, though it’s worth checking to be sure.
The ICCU also gets to the 15 year 180,000 warranty, and that can be transferred to all subsequent owners.
Some states also mandate a longer battery warranty period. I’m not sure if that sticks with the car if it moves to another state.
“Metaplant” makes me think of the line from Austin Powers about how Dr. Evil’s company has ‘a factory in Chicago that makes miniature models of factories.’
I just misread it as “Meatplant” and thought that Hyundai was going to compete with VW on the sausage business.
I’ve seen increases in prices in used evs in some markets over the past few weeks. Hopefully the flood of lease returns coming lowers them again. With evs is so much about use case and how you are charging it. If you do alot of home charging obviously not only will you spend less on energy but you can get a better deal on a car by not focusing on something that does fast charging well.
You can get a low mileage 1 or 2 year old leaf for under $15k seems ok. Stretch that a bit and they are around $10k. The Toyota / Suburu for around $20k with AWD seem like a good deal could be the best of if you do a lot of home charging.
Ionic 5 might be the best deal for many for under $22k. Ionic 6 is probably the best deal for a sporty thing they are regularly under $22k. The niro is another that’s around that maybe under $20k. When you go 3 years and over 30k mi things change a bit. That gives you ayria for ok value but still think the Toyotas are a better value. It brings the lucid air in that could be a fantastic value as long as they stay around. I think Teslas have to be dirt cheap to get involved. They have gone up a little bit you can find a Model 3 for under $12k. Even with 20 or 30% degregation it can be decent enough for around town.
It’s the price. With three kids and an ex-wife, I exist at the $3500 price point. When I can get a still functioning EV for that, I will.
I also pay a lot of taxes, so I was unhappy about subsidies for new cars that I could never afford.
They exist but you have to dig a bit. 100 mi range is probably what you are getting now. I’ve seen some model 3s wholesale for that. It’s sort of ironic in the car that was never going to loose its value will be probably be the best “cash car” ev shortly if it’s not already.
“, I exist at the $3500 price point. When I can get a still functioning EV for that, I will.”
I’ve existed in that price point in the past. But it’s not only the price you should look at, it’s also Total Cost of Ownership… including insurance.
Even though I’m not at that price point anymore, TCO still matters.
I was looking at buying a used Tesla Model S that was a great deal. And when I got the insurance quote, it was around CAD$4500 year compared to the CAD$1500/year I was paying on my Fit.
I was prepared to pay a bit more for insurance, but not CAD$3000/year more… which would blow away any savings.
So I got the C-Max instead… which is slightly cheaper to insure than the Fit, cut my fuel consumption by at least 40% and needs a bit less maintenance.
Also used Honda Fits with manuals and in good condition without too much mileage have gone up in value in my area.
So for your $3500 price point, you’re not gonna get a decent BEV.
But you could get a decent hybrid like an old Prius or a Fusion hybrid.
The thing is, though, that TCO is completely divorced from cash-on-hand.
Not completely. A lower TCO means you have more cash-on-hand in the future.
“In the future” doesn’t help with the present
I also exist in this world. By choice mostly. No argument for beneficial debt is interesting to me. Owing someone creates stress, which is a cost. Its a cost I have no interest in paying, even if it netted more cash. Money exists for one reason, to reduce stress. Paying for a nicer, newer car does not reduce my stress, even if it were to cost less. Owning the car reduces stress, therefore is worth more money. So I’ll stick to low cash purchases. I’m happy here.
What’s the best deal in used EVs right now?
A harder question would be “what isn’t a good deal in used EVs right now?” Really, any EV that three years old or more is a solid deal.
If I had to pick one to highlight, it would be the second-generation Leaf. You can buy a low mileage, three-year-old Leaf in good condition for $12k. These come with a moderate range and the obvious handicap of a CHAdeMO port (fast charging is basically impossible), but if you can deal with that, you can get a nice, comfortable car that is extremely cheap to insure, drive, and maintain. Most used EVs can save you money if you buy one to replace an ICE vehicle, but Leafs are cheap enough they might even save you money if you buy one in addition to an ICE vehicle.
The best deal is the cheapest EV you can find to fit your usage case.
I’m really hoping this combination of high dollar Dino Juice and excess off-lease inventory will be the push needed to see EVs make inroads to overall market share.
Audi E-tron GT’s
I agree. you can find nice low mileage one around $40~45K.
It is still a lot of money, but this car is $100K+ MSRP when new
The only insight I can give to the EV pricing is that I bought a new ’24 Mach E extended range, RWD in December 2024. Ford was clearing them out so I got it for $42,000 plus taxes. That was for a brand new one. I love the car. I commute ~70 miles daily and get to charge free at my office. I have saved at least $2500 in fuel, oil, and routine maintenance, conservatively.
For a commuter car, it’s perfect.
Trump gets accused of being soft on the environment, but he’s playing 4th dimension chess. His policies are pushing us to ever higher levels of electrification!
/s
I don’t even know that the /s is needed here.
He certainly isn’t purposely doing it but the war in Iran and resulting gas prices is directly correlated to why we went to an EV. Our family can’t be the only one making this move right now either and, if the reports are accurate, this whole thing is going to be a lot worse in about 30 days despite the current oil price relief in the last 7 days.
We bought our first EV, a cheap Bolt the first week of the conflict… I had a suspicion this time the disruption won’t be a quick blip.
Though I’d love to be proven wrong, as we still have a gas car too (and motorcycles, garden tractor, not to mention oil boiler).
I’ve seen comparable Bolt EV prices creep up since then about ~10% in my area.
I bought a Prius PHEV at the beginning of this thing as well. I was previously considering a Bronco and that went right out the window. I imagined Trump’s 2 week war would be like Putin’s 2 week special military operation and wanted to secure a fuel efficient vehicle before a repeat of 2008. Unlike 2008, I don’t see a lot of Tahoe’s lining the used dealer lots.
I could be wrong but I truly believe $6/gallon national average is coming by the end of the summer. That’ll change the used Tahoe market (or maybe it won’t Americans are dumb with money).
Same here and the more I heard it was a “blip” the less I believed it.
Even if it is a blip the benefits of the EV are still pretty great.
Didn’t you hear? The war is over.
It’s been over at least four times, now.
What war? I don’t think there ever was a war. A real war never actually started. Just some silly wanna be dictator games in the middle east, as usual. And I’m sure lots of corporate profits, which is good for everyone, since only corporations are people.
The announcements of the war being over will continue until the peace deal improves.
I repeat: threats on Sunday will be continue with promises of the conflict being resolved on Monday sometime after US markets open.
The gaslighting will continue in the the global geopolitical supply chain issues resolve themselves, absolute peak leadership. I’ve seen better tactics in a game of Risk played by 11 year olds…
I’ve heard multiple experts say in multiple outlets that we won’t see sub-3.00 gasoline till 2032.
Today I learned that to determine whether someone is a Scot, have them say “thirty.”
That song does indeed rip, and I’m on record as firmly “meh” on LCD Soundsystem.
I think I’d rather have Daft Punk playing at my house.
LCD Soundsystem is one of those bands that I feel like I’m supposed to like, but I just can’t get into them.
Made me think of DT’s joke:
“When’s the best time to go to the dentist?
“2:30…since my tooth hurty”
I wonder if Scots would say “toothirty” ha ha
If the average purchase price of a used EV is only $20 more / month – it means that the total cost of ownership of an average used EV is effectively cheaper.
Unless you’re in one of the states that’s disproportionately charging EV owners with taxes and registration fees higher than what gas cars pay in fuel tax.
The more you drive: the more the gas tax affects you. Whereas the registration charge would not scale based on distance (yet?).
Thankfully there are some savings on maintenance as well (though, admittedly, offset by higher tire wear/consumption).
If I remember correctly, unless you’re driving something like 60k miles a year in some states, the EVs are paying more tax through fees than gas cars through fuel tax.
Which is what people are (justifiably) mad about.
Yep, my home state of Maryland is one of those unfortunately. They are all-in on EVs until it hits the bottom line. Total registration fees for EVs exceeding 3500 lbs (a quick Google tells me that only the 500e would be below that) is $317 per year. PHEVs only slightly less. What they’ve actually done is incentivized hybrids as they aren’t subject to anything but the weight scale.
MGs in Spain, will they also be made in Vitoria like Authis of old?
Stellantis rebadges: not really interested to be honest.
Bold claim from a company that tried to make a Tacoma the symbol of RAM POWER
Another reason for the glut of off-lease EVs is the substantial disparity between the residual values used to calculate the leases and the actual market value of these cars. My 2-year lease on my Ioniq 5 XRT is up in about 8 months and the residual is easily $6k higher than the best resale price anyone can expect to get now. Part of that issue for the Hyundai is that they reduced MSRP quite a bit after the tax credits yanked away, so the market is really skewed toward dumping your lease and getting a cheaper lightly used model.