The temperatures are hot and so is the car news! Welcome to this Thursday, July 6 edition of The Autopian’s morning news roundup. On deck today: a new Toyota Land Cruiser is (finally) coming, Stellantis (also finally) has ambitious EV platform plans, China’s car industry has America in a quandary and Rivian’s trying to make new friends. Let’s not waste any more time because we have a lot to discuss.
Get Ready To Cruise Some Land, Baby
For a long time, I haven’t been able to understand why Toyota doesn’t lean more into its heritage—especially for trucks. At a time when the Ford Bronco is blowing up, demand for the Jeep Wrangler shows no signs of slowing down, and more and more people are getting into overlanding, where’s the world’s biggest (or second-biggest, depending on Volkswagen that quarter) car company? The 4Runner sure gets the job done, but the current one will be 15 years old next year—the “How do you do, fellow kids?” of the off-roading park—and people have been demanding a new FJ Cruiser-type SUV since the old one drove off into the sunset.
It’s all a huge missed opportunity, if you ask me. Especially since more and more automakers are adamant that they’ll give up their gas trucks last (or maybe never) in the race toward electrification.
Help is on the way. Toyota has at last confirmed that a new Land Cruiser is coming to the U.S. and today it gave us some teaser pics. They’re pretty clearly CGI and so there’s nothing to really glean from the shape of the truck parked in front of a first-generation Land Cruiser on a fake cliffside.
Here’s what little we know from Automotive News:
Company sources say the next Land Cruiser will be based on the next-generation Land Cruiser Prado, a smaller, less expensive SUV sold in overseas markets, including Europe, and marketed in the U.S. as the Lexus GX.
The body-on-frame GX has been overhauled from top to bottom for 2024 and appears boxier, though still upright.
A full reveal of the next-generation Land Cruiser is expected to take place in early August.
A little backstory helps here. As you probably know, the Land Cruiser isn’t a car so much as it is cars—it’s a whole lineup of vehicles sold in various forms across many different markets, much like the Corolla. In some places with less stringent safety and fuel economy rules, you can still buy a Land Cruiser that’s as old as I am. And why not? It gets the job done and when you’re out in the bush or whatever, accept no substitutes. (I could say the same of myself.)
In the U.S., the Land Cruiser was discontinued amid dwindling sales in 2021. That was always kind of a weird SUV in my mind; it was very plush, very old, very expensive to the point where it had uncomfortable overlap with its sibling the Lexus LX, and its looks never screamed “Land Cruiser.” There was always a big gap between what that vehicle was and what people envisioned a Land Cruiser to be.
There is a new comfort-focused Land Cruiser these days, the 300 series. But we don’t get that truck and the teased model we’re talking about here is going to be different, somehow. We don’t really know what to expect from this U.S.-bound Land Cruiser, but rumors say it’s expected to be cheaper, more retro-looking and more off-road focused than before; my guess is we can expect a hybrid powertrain like on the new Tacoma, which is good to see.
Keep in mind a new 4Runner is also coming and so I’m not sure what that overlap will look like if the Land Cruiser’s cheaper. But sales data indicates people can’t get enough trucks and SUVs these days, so if the looks and price can match the love people have for these nameplates, it won’t matter much. For Toyota, it’s definitely the right truck at the right time.
Stellantis’ EV Platform Aims For Impressive Range
There’s a real and valid environmental argument against making more EV battery than you need, but it kind of falls on deaf ears as early EV adopters still (understandably) fret over range and changing their driving habits. As a result, even when they say they don’t really want to, automakers are working on big-range EVs.
This week we learned more about relative EV latecomer Stellantis’ plans, and I’d describe one platform’s range as both reasonable and impressive. The Franco-Italo-American-Dutch conglomerate showed off STLA Medium, one of four EV platforms it hopes to debut this decade; the others are Small, Large and Frame for trucks and SUVs.
STLA Medium is said to aim for 435 miles of EV range on Europe’s WLTP cycle, which will be something more like 370 miles for us. That’s pretty great if they can pull it off, and it’s not as ridiculous (or concerning) as some of these plans for 700- or 900-mile EV ranges. Here’s Car and Driver to tell us more about STLA Medium:
While the first EV to utilize the STLA Medium platform will be the next-generation Peugeot 3008, which is only sold overseas, the first U.S. model is expected to be a Chrysler. While we think it could arrive sometime in 2026, an official date has yet to be confirmed. The Chrysler Airflow concept teased what this new EV might be like back in 2021, but it’s currently unclear how similar it will be to the production version—or if it will even be called the Airflow.
Like most EV platforms, the STLA Medium is modular, meaning it can be configured with different dimensions, suspensions, and more. Along with wheelbases that range from about 106 to 114 inches, it can be equipped with a single electric motor on the front axle or motors on both axles. The former setup obviously provides front-wheel drive, and the latter provides all-wheel drive. Stellantis says power output will range from about 214 horsepower to up to around 382 horses.
The STLA Medium platform will also offer two battery sizes. Stellantis only revealed details about the larger battery with a 98.0-kWh useable capacity… Stellantis did say the smaller standard battery is expected to provide 310 miles of WLTP-estimated range—or about 264 miles for the likely EPA estimate.
Those ranges put it in line, more or less, with the stuff Tesla and Hyundai and others are currently offering. It’s also built for upgradability:
Not only is the STLA Medium platform designed to switch from a 400- to an 800-volt electrical system in the future, but Stellantis says it will be be able to accept new battery chemistries such as solid-state as well as nickel- and cobalt-free packs. To help with packaging costs and production volumes, the perimeter dimensions of the STLA Medium’s battery packs are both the same and feature common tray and cooling designs.
America And Europe Approach The ‘Chinese Cars’ Quandary Differently
Companies like Stellantis had better get it together on the EV front because they’re about to get their lunch eaten on their home turf. We’ve covered this all year, but the Chinese auto industry is rising fast and rapidly gaining market share in Europe, as well as other Western markets like Australia. Can you blame people? Everyone’s fed up with sky-high car prices and by many accounts, the stuff coming out of China seems quite good these days. Also, they need to expand. Competition at home is so intense that margins are extra-thin. They have to go abroad to grow.
We have stiff 27.5% tariffs on Chinese-made cars in America. That keeps them out of our market for now. In Europe, it’s just 10%. But as U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen makes her first visit to Beijing this week, China’s cars—particularly EVs—are going to be a topic of conversation.
This very thoughtful Detroit News article outlines some of the challenges. Basically, the EU doesn’t love that Chinese automakers could eat the home team’s market share, but they want EVs instead of gas cars so they’re down to accelerate things more.
“The EU has put up more barriers (than in the past), but for them, the environmental emissions issues are really, really of greater salience,” said Susan Shirk, founding chair of the 21st Century China Center at the University of California-San Diego.
The European Union agreed earlier this year to ban the sale of gas-powered cars after 2035, with the exception of synthetic fuels to get car-centric Germany on board.
John Bozzella, CEO of the main U.S. auto lobbying group the Alliance for Automotive Innovation, wrote last month that Chinese EV companies used the coming ban to jump into the market. He said they grabbed 5% of Europe’s EV market share in the first nine months of 2022 and are now projected to reach 20% by 2025 — numbers that automotive consulting firm AlixPartners LLP confirmed are similar to their analyses.
So what will America do?
But […] U.S. policies would significantly slow down Chinese competitors seeking to enter the market. Trump came into office in 2017 on a wave of discontent emanating from hollowed-out manufacturing towns, particularly in the industrial Midwest. He restructured U.S. policy to be more protectionist, including implementing a 27.5% tariff on imports of Chinese-made cars that remains in place.
Biden doubled down on that stance, pushing through the Inflation Reduction Act, which created new electric vehicle tax credits that incentivize domestic production but bars Chinese companies from benefitting.
It’s emblematic of the Biden administration’s goals of accelerating EV adoption, pushing companies to build them (and their components) in the United States, and separating supply chains from China — a strategy experts say is rife with inherent conflict.
“The core question I think Washington and the United States need to grapple with is: Is it important that American transportation is electrified?”
If you’re a policy person in the Biden Administration and you have an admitted environmental bent, what can you do? Do you side with more EVs and give China a break, or stay tough on them amid other geopolitical tensions—and the good of your country’s auto industry? That’s a tough choice to make.
Rivian Wants Friends And Partners
Rivian has had a lot of the typical EV startup production problems but it still managed a great Q2. Compared to the same period last year, it’s 3x’d production and deliveries to customers and saw a subsequent stock price boost after reporting this. Nicely done, Team Rivian.
On the heels of that success, Rivian says its partnership with Amazon is going well but it also maybe wants to keep things open, play the field a bit. Here’s Bloomberg:
Rivian Automotive Inc. is ready to take on more commercial partners beyond Amazon.com Inc. after a recent bout of production success.
“What we saw in Q2 is really the beginnings of the supply chain now running in a healthy way,” Chief Executive Officer RJ Scaringe said Wednesday in an interview with Bloomberg Television.
Rivian sells a consumer pickup truck and sport utility vehicle and manufactures a delivery van for Amazon, its largest shareholder and biggest customer. The deal with Amazon is exclusive, but Scaringe said the carmaker is “in the final stages of negotiating, allowing us to sell the vehicle outside of the Amazon relationship to others.”
[…] During the interview, Scaringe said the company was guiding that around 20% of its overall production volumes would be vans for Amazon. Rivian’s deal with Amazon has it delivering 100,000 electric delivery vans for the e-commerce giant by the end of the decade.
There’s certainly a market for electric delivery vans, right? Who wants in on what Rivian’s doing?
Your Turn
Congratulations! You have been appointed Joe Biden’s Chinese Car Czar, a reward for all your years of shitposting in comment sections and on Twitter. Your expertise in the automotive world has been recognized and you’ve been called up to the show.
Your task is to set policy around how America will deal with Chinese-made EVs. You know that their arrival here is, in some way, probably inevitable. You also want to electrify the market but you also have the automakers here, and the United Auto Workers union, to deal with. Furthermore, years of IP theft, human rights abuses and aircraft carriers parked near Taiwan have led you to trust Xi Jinping about as far as your boss can throw him, which isn’t very far because he’s a guy in his 80s.
How do you handle this problem?
Make the Chinese manufacturers partner up with a domestic producer and share the technology used. It seems to work for them.
Declare a military war on China, then try to invade them. This always works, right???
I’m the Czar of Chinese cars?
Well first I’d copy China’s 100% Tariff on foreign made automobiles but have it only apply to Chinese automobiles.
Then I’d look at having a “Gas guzzler” tax for BEVs that goes up in percentage of value relative to the excess pollution they create. Things like ‘is the leftover chemical waste properly disposed of?’ and ‘Are the batteries made with materials derived from slave labor’.
Also all the data the Chinese cars collect Has to stay in the US, otherwise the automaker would be banned from the US market.
Chinese cars is a complex issue. First, drop the tariff. But stay with me here. Take a good hard look at what Japan does to keep foreign cars out. The crazy (to us gaijin) compliance regime, the “random” dockside inspections that rip apart the car and slow-walking customs clearance. Don’t forget to do this to an occasional non-Chinese car so it’s “equal treatment”. Next, if the Chinese car companies decide to build plants in Mexico and source minerals from IRA-approved countries, win for us! Enforce the provisions strictly since we know they’ll try to cheat. Last, when they complain, point out that the Western companies except Tesla are all joint ventures.
I guarantee eventually the govt will backtrack on Chinese EVs in a few years when electrification goals are in the shitter. How else are the Poors gonna get EV’s?, not gonna happen with IRA US made EVs. They will promise to give them away to the Poors to get them into EVs and make the magical EV goals; like free phone, healthcare, broadband, etc programs.
The poors don’t drive in the future.
Torch has got to be straining at the straps looking at the against-the-laws-of-physics shadow situation on that Toyota picture.
Disappointed that the new North American land Cruiser is a car we already were getting. Considering that the 4Runner is also just the GX with different styling, where does this Land Cruiser Prado fit in the lineup?
retro styling.
And here’s the problems.
Prepare for yet another cautionary tale of “be careful what you wish for.” Along with a whole lot of people whining when there’s no used (brown, manual, cloth) Land Cruisers because nobody bought them new.
Look. I mock FCAtlantis for all the good reasons, but when it comes to engineering for modularity and reuse? Nobody holds a candle to them. They have over 60 distinct cars on less than 6 unique platforms. They have one infotainment software stack across four continents, 50+ languages, and 6 marques. They have one ECU architecture for everything. To the point where many of the modules are quite literally the exact same part between Jeep and Peugeot.
And making a platform last forever? The Charger/Challenger’s LX platform is older than some of our commenters here! Which itself dates to an 80’s Mercedes platform. If FCATlantis says they can get 10 years out of STLA Medium? Count on 30+. LX wasn’t supposed to last even 10.
So, who wants to explain to these “everyone else must go green” idiots that China is building coal-fired power plants and strip mines with zero environmental protection at an obscene rate in order to make these EVs? In fact, China continues to build coal plants at a rate more than 3x that of all renewables combined. They quadrupled the number of coal-fired plants from 2021 to 2022 alone.
Hey, guess what? All those greenhouse gas savings are not only completely eradicated, but they’re directly causing a drastic increase in the worst of them.
Great job, morons.
No, it’s not. Because it’s not xenophobic to refuse to do business with countries engaging in genocide and ‘legal’ slavery. It’s not nationalism to refuse to do business with someone who has proven multiple times to be dishonest and to outright cheat, lie, and steal.
If anything, everyone should be taking a much harder line stance with the Chinese dictatorship. Especially since those ‘cheap EVs’ from China? Aren’t. They’re artificially depressed prices to engage in market dumping. (Something they’ve been proven to do and convicted of repeatedly.)
Oh, you’re serious. Let me laugh harder.
Amazon is hellbent on becoming a monopoly by hook or by crook. And if they can’t have that, then they’re damn well going to control prices and supply on everything, which is just as good. The only reason Amazon would even consider letting Rivian be non-exclusive, is so that Amazon themselves can profit off it.
Rivian Commercial Chassis, only available with 1-click buy (Prime membership required.)
Everyone: “… wait, RootWyrm? Shit. That’s someone who might actually, like, have some rational ideas and plans! Hell, he gets both sides of it pretty well.”
Yeah, fuck no.
Never fight a land war in Asia, and never fight a trade war with China.
I disagree. Invade and trade, our only options!
I mean, I don’t think it’d be the worst thing if Amazon sold the Rivian vans through Prime… essentially Amazon would be the dealership, and you’d just know that there’s no MSRP because Amazon’s ADM is the MSRP, but if the price is competitive and it does away with dealership hassle, then that could be appealing. It’s not like there are very many electric vans on the market right now anyway.
Even with a 27.5% tariff, the Changli is still a good deal 😛
No really though, they can still turn a profit on a 10k car even with jealous taxes like that.
Being undercut by China is a consequence of gouging from everybody else. No more cheap new cars, so there’s room for someone to step in.
Also, we need to sign on to the international UNECE standards. We could also do what Mexico does and allow both US and international standards.
I want Rivian to succeed. They should buy Chrysler’s Belvidere, IL factory if they need to expand. They already make cars in the state (the former Mitsubishi factory in Normal), and that location has very good logistics, too. Rivian is run by an adult, and they offer cool colors and even a green interior too 😀
I’d love to see a Rivian R1W or R1H something, a hatchback or wagon, something smaller and less expensive than the R1S/R1T.
Mitsubishi still makes a big truck SUV called the Montero Sport. They should sell it here. I don’t understand why they stopped selling the Montero in the US since big SUV’s have always been popular here.
Since most US car makes(and dealers) are taking all they can from consumers($70k for an EV work truck??), I’d have a scaling tariff and what the heck let’s go by wheelbase since that’s what the EPA is doing for emissions stupidly.
So less than 100″ wheelbase, 10% tariff, over 100″ wheelbase 30% tariff. So that could flood the market with cheap economical Chinese cars, but leave the big ticket items still for regular makes to sell.
Whole electrification is important, I have to wonder about where/how China is getting the resources for their EV batteries. Is one of the reasons their prices are so cheap because they are mining without regard for the environment and human rights? China’s track record on both is poor, which gives me pause.
In general, I’m curious how “green” an EV is, if the materials in its battery are not sourced in a (at least somewhat) responsible manner. Ditto for assembly of the rest of the car, really. I’m not anti-ev by any means, but these are issues we need to think about as we make the transition.
So much this. Is it still worth going EV if the manufacturing process is so dirty that it offsets any gains from eliminating an ICE? I don’t know, but that’s a question the Car Czar definitely needs to answer.
Although before they answer that question they need to find out how much slave labor is being used to build those cheap EVs. No amount of environmental impact is worth that.
I think my solution is a reasonable tariff and significant requirements for which they’ll have to pay to confirm compliance, both as a per-vehicle cost and an upfront cost. Make them pay for a US compliance testing facility that will confirm their vehicles meet minimum safety criteria and independently runs EPA testing. Make them pay for inspection facilities that confirm all imported vehicles are individually inspected to confirm they aren’t allowing quality to significantly deteriorate after initial compliance testing. Further, require source code for all computerized components and all operating specs for everything to be released to the US government for significant scrutiny.
Sure, they’ll still likely undercut domestics, but it should both ensure the market isn’t flooded with cheap garbage and make it just expensive enough to make undercutting hurt. It will also ensure that there are US jobs related to the Chinese vehicles without forcing joint ventures that allow Chinese companies access to US company information.
The Chinese have been playing unfair for decades. We now buy most of their shit. So its time we do the same.
Exactly, their auto industry has the full weight of the CCP behind it. Give our companies a chance to build out capacity and introduce products. I don’t really care if it’s “protectionist,” all countries exercise protectionism and prop up homegrown industries to some degree.
I would tell the domestic automakers that I will raise tariffs to an absurd, protectionist height on Chinese EVs if they will all commit to selling at least one V10 powered sports coupe forever.
If that doesn’t work, I’ll inform the Chinese that their applications to NHTSA, EPA etc will be approved just as soon as they each put a V10 powered sports coupe on sale…
Compelling, but I think we could simplify it further.
All manufacturers with V10 powered sports coupes qualify for the big incentives on their EVs. All manufacturers without would be subject to a “Should Make A V10” tax on the full line.
This way we encourage development of V10 sports coupes not only in North American or Chinese manufacturers but instead in everyone trying to get a foothold in the US market. Even VinFast would be able to get in on the action with a V10 that falls apart like it’s in a Buster Keaton movie.
Call it the Depression Reduction Act.
Nope we’re going to give our companies and those of our allies time to catch up, just like China continues to do with their companies. I’m sure BYD receives hefty subsidies to produce cars at that price point (but then again it’s China so precise figures either aren’t available or unreliable).
As czar, I’m advocating raising our tariff even further and pressuring the Europeans to raise theirs. Perhaps in exchange for treating European cars the same as US ones for the IRA. The WTO can complain all they want, don’t care <insert Chappelle’s Black Bush sketch here>
It’s an easy choice because let’s be real: electrifying US personal vehicles slightly faster is not nearly as important as the national security implications of allowing China to dominate future battery production. We’re far from perfect, but I think anyone in the free world would rather live with US hegemony than China.
Well, the “Your Turn” prompt is kinda impossible to answer. I’m sure there is a fancier term for the problem with the question (logical fallacy, maybe?), but the reality is that one can’t dictate how to handle imports of EVs when the base US policy is so wishy-washy and malleable. It’s kinda like trying to decide what to put on special for Happy Hour when the liquor license keeps changing what you can and can’t serve. EV regs are gonna keep getting adjusted over and over again, so why even bother printing out a set menu? It’s a waste of paper.
As far as Rivian goes, I’d love to get the SUV one, but I’m just not comfortable enough with battery tech to believe that my garage won’t burn down one night for no reason. I’d still like one, though!
You’re the czar, un-wishy-washy it.
So I shitposted my way into office, I’m going to keep on shitposting. I’m telling anyone who will listen that the Chinese cars will catch on fire, accelerate randomly, rollover, unsafe at pretty much any speed and worships the Devil himself. With no one on twitter, going to have do the White House tours to spread the message. Come for the Lincoln bedroom stay for my hour long Ted talk on Chinese electric cars. If you stay for my diatribe, I’ll let you meet a member of cabinet. Moral panic spreads. In the name of safety and limiting devil worship, Chinese automakers can only ship to one port. Like chocolate. We select Mobile, Alabama. Which seems like the furthest port from the Pearl River Delta. Thus increasing cost and limiting spread due to port delays. Biden thanks me, gives me a medal and I get to be Under Secretary of Transportation.
Man, they must sell some good weed where you live!
Maine does have some great very legal weed. Much better then those dim witted mountain trolls over in Vermont.
Is Nissan working on bringing back the Xterra yet? I mean, come on. Seems like it they executed it well, it’d print money. I loved my ’13 Pro4X with the manual.
They actually do sell a truck-based Xterra in the middle east, so all they need to do is federalize it 🙂
https://www.carpixel.net/w/9d75aa4a4a46e598d51932e953f7b9f9/nissan-terra-wallpaper-hd-77722.jpg
The new Land Cruiser sounds interesting but I hear an old $2500 TrailBlazer is basically the same thing.
Lets consider the source here…
Nobody said that! lol
Showerghetti.
love you homie
Love you too
I was just gonna say…I can’t afford a new Land Cruiser, $4K TrailBlazer here I come!
I’m very excited about the new Land Cruiser as more people will finally realize how awesome the Prado chassis is, but as a GX460 owner I will not be in the market for one for probably another 15 years, so bring on the Land-E-Cruiser.
I think the Land Cruiser absence is mainly due to how ridiculously slow moving, conservative, and insular Japanese corporate culture is. All Japanese car manufacturers move at a snail’s pace and the majority of them are selling products that are 5+ years old/behind the times on arrival. That doesn’t mean their products are BAD…in fact they’re quite good when it comes to reliability and longevity and in the current tech hell world we live in it’s preferable to a lot of people to hop in an interior that feels familiar (I am one of those people).
But it’s not like very many of Toyota’s products are cutting edge at the moment. Of course they’ve finally caught up to the SUV hysteria now, but they weren’t just going to hop on a trend and push out a meh quality product that’s half baked. It’s not how they roll. I’m not saying that their approach is either good or bad, I think it has both advantages and disadvantages. But I assume that the new Land Cruiser is going to be legit in all ways except fuel economy…and probably 75% or more of the people buying BOF trucks and SUVs don’t even care about gas mileage or electrification anyway.
At this point, especially for a company like Stellantis, “pulling it off” just means shoving a ton of batteries into the frame until they hit their number.
If they do it with any sort of efficiency, I’ll be impressed.
That’s two automakers now announcing new models without any further elaboration. Who wants to be next?
Over under on actual LC details is 12 months*; place your bets.
Edit: yes I know the real announcement is expected in august, I just don’t expect any real details to be shared then.
I will also be offering new, all electric models in the coming years. Stay tuned for more information!
I was going to make this joke but I already used it on the Hyundai announcement.
I saw a Rivian SUV on the freeway yesterday with still new paper plates. It’s a pretty nice looking SUV. I don’t care for the headlight turn indicators though.
“If you’re a policy person in the Biden Administration and you have an admitted environmental bent, what can you do? Do you side with more EVs and give China a break, or stay tough on them amid other geopolitical tensions—and the good of your country’s auto industry? That’s a tough choice to make.”
Two words: Chicken Tax.