Home » This Column Demanding We Stop Making EVs Is The Stupidest Kind Of Fearmongering Crap

This Column Demanding We Stop Making EVs Is The Stupidest Kind Of Fearmongering Crap

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You know what’s a nice treat for a cranky-ass writer like myself? It’s when some major media outlet publishes something so delightfully, irredeemably stupid and smug and ill-informed that it’s just begging for a nice, cathartic take-down. Thankfully, our pals across the pond at The Telegraph have served up just this sort of thing for us, piping hot, and dripping with all of the finest, most insipid fear-mongering horseshit you could ask for. This gift is a column written by Allison Pearson titled “We must put a stop to the electric vehicle revolution – before someone gets hurt,” and it’s just as bad as you think. Probably worse.

Essentially, this column is a panicky plea that all electric vehicle production be halted because of the potential dangers of EVs, primarily due to lithium-iron battery fires. Now, these sorts of fires do certainly exist, and it’s absolutely an issue that needs to be continually addressed, no question. But should all EV production be stopped outright? I don’t think so, but perhaps I’m not an expert in electrical engineering like I assume Allison Pearson is. I mean, she obviously considers herself an expert on trans issues, which I guess means she’s good at troubleshooting faulty electrical transformers, right? That’s got to be it. Otherwise, this whole screed would have been written by someone who has only been a television and radio presenter who’s written some romance novels, and that would be absurd, since that would imply this person has no idea what the hell they’re talking about. The Telegraph would never publish something like that, would they?

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And yet here is this column that uses last week’s massive fire at London’s Luton Airport as one of its central points about how EV fire danger is being covered up. As Pearson puts it:

It was the same nothing-to-see-here story with the towering inferno this month at Luton airport. At least 125 flights were cancelled after a huge fire, which started on level three of the airport’s multi-storey car park, caused the entire £20 million structure to collapse. Up to 1,500 vehicles are unlikely to be salvageable. A huge deal, you might think. A topic for a heated debate at the very least, particularly as people could have been hurt but, once again, the conflagration has been tamped down. Authorities said the blaze “appeared to have been accidental and began in a parked car, believed to be a diesel vehicle”. 

Well, not according to one witness, who managed to snap a picture of the vehicle that was suspected of causing the fire, which looked very like a Range Rover Evoque. There was none of the thick black smoke you would expect with a diesel fire. Instead, the blaze was focused on the front left seat of the car under which – well, I never! – the lithium-ion battery happens to be located in some hybrid Range Rovers.

Okay, great, except the fire was definitely not started by a Range Rover Evoque, it was started by a 2014 Range Rover Sport TDV6 SE, which we know because you can see the damn thing on fire in video and you can even run the license plate if you’re still not sure.

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This is some pretty sloppy reporting and writing, saying a car “looked very like a Range Rover Evoque” and then just guessing that even if it was that car – again, it wasn’t – it could have been a hybrid one, and then the battery could have been to blame for the fire. A lithium-ion battery that, again, in the context of her example there, is as fictional as Sasquatch Santa Claus.

Cleantechnica — a website devoted to clean energy, EVs, and sustainability —  wrote all about this issue, saying:

The fire department identified the car which started the blaze. There’s video of it. It was a diesel Range Rover, one of the Land Rover group of cars. While there is a diesel battery-electric hybrid option for some of the Range Rover groups, there’s zero evidence that it was a hybrid.

In fact, a front view video of the car shows its license plate, and UK’s Ministry of Transport makes it clear that the car was a 2014 diesel Range Rover Sport, license plate E10EFL. Used car site Car Check confirms this, showing it has tested emissions of 194 g/km, which puts it at the top end of the emissions range for non-hybrid diesel light vehicles. Not only is there no evidence that it was hybrid, there is strong evidence it wasn’t hybrid.

Okay, so if that huge airport fire wasn’t actually caused by an EV, maybe Pearson has some other compelling evidence to bolster her idea that the world is being held at flame-thrower-point by EVs and their lithium-ion batteries, threatening to conflagrate at the slightest provocation. Maybe she has some really compelling evidence, ideally hearsay and involving at least one gazebo? Hey, we’re in luck! Look at this:

It’s not just cars. My gardener friend says he knows of two gazebos that burnt down when the battery pack powering their fairy lights burst into flames, causing third-degree burns to one owner.

Two gazebos! Burned down by unspecified-chemistry battery packs, but ones that were probably lithium-ion! At this rate, will Britain have any gazebos left?

Again, Pearson isn’t wrong that lithium-ion battery fires are nasty things and cause real damage. That’s true! Thermal runaway in these batteries is a real thing, which is what is being referred to here when she quotes Peter Edwards, chair of inorganic chemistry at the University of Oxford:

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Someone who really does know the answer is Professor Peter Edwards. He holds the chair in inorganic chemistry at the University of Oxford and tells me he is extremely worried about the “real danger” posed to the public and emergency services by lithium-ion batteries which were developed by his predecessor in the chair, the late Professor John B Goodenough, the so-called “Father of the Lithium Battery”.

“Lithium-ion batteries in electric vehicles can develop unstoppable so-called ‘thermal runaway’ fires which burn uncontrollably,” says Prof Edwards. “As well as intense heat, during a battery fire, numerous toxic gases are emitted, such as hydrogen cyanide and hydrogen fluoride. The emission of these gases can be a larger threat than the heat generated.”

(By the way, the fact that lithium-ion batteries were developed by a scientist named John B. Goodenough is just astounding. What an incredible name for a scientist! Goodenough! I love it. If you were looking for evidence that we live in a simulation, there you go, because that is definitely a placeholder name someone forgot to fill in.)

She also notes this about Goodenough:

Towards the end of his distinguished life, the Father of the Lithium Battery told colleagues in Oxford that he didn’t think a mass rollout was wise because of the considerable fire hazard. How lucky we are that our country’s entire future energy strategy isn’t riding on an invention that can explode at will and cause fires it’s impossible to put out…

You know what? Too bad. It’s way, way too late to stop a “mass rollout” because it’s already happened.

While the basics of some of the points in this piece are true – lithium-ion batteries do have the potential to burn quite dramatically (and also days after a crash) – the hard truth is that if you’re genuinely concerned about that and not just desperate for a column topic to get people worked up about, then you’re already deeply and irretrievably fucked. Because lithium batteries absolutely surround us. I can just about guarantee you that if Allison Pearson banged out her column on a laptop, that laptop had a nice fat lithium battery in it. Pretty much every cell phone has a lithium battery.

There are literally millions and millions of lithium batteries around us at all times, and while, yes, they all have some potential to burn, the truth is we’re not all dead. If lithium batteries were as dangerous and unstable as Pearson is trying to claim they are, then walking by any given coffee shop would sound like a July 4th fireworks show finale, with flashes of blinding light and chest-thumping explosions sending hot latte flying everywhere, a near-constant rain of shattered mugs and saucers raining down on the shellshocked heads of everyone inside.

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But that’s not how reality works.

Of course, reality does also include things like the car-transporting cargo ship that caught fire possibly as a result of EVs on board – hell, we even know someone who lost a car in that fire – and things like carmakers having to recall thousands of EVs because of fire risk [Ed Note: The ship-fire thing isn’t confirmed to have been caused by EVs, but the recalls for EV fire risk have been absurd. GM recalled every single Bolt! -DT]. Pearson isn’t wrong at all to bring up these points, because when lithium-ion batteries release energy as a result of a thermal event, it’s bad, really bad — arguably worse than fires caused by gasoline. This is all very true.

But what especially sucks about this whole shit-milkshake of a column is that there are real issues brought up here, but it’s all couched in this idiotic cloak of panic and fatalism that does nothing to help anyone. Again, most of the issues brought up here have at least a seed of truth:

What a fiasco the whole electric car thing has become. Too few charging machines and then too many charging machines out of service, forcing people to drive around for a viable charging point, only to end up calling breakdown services for run-down batteries. The mileage the cars can do is a lot lower than advertised, unless you drive at 20mph (perfect in Wales, but hopeless everywhere else). The cars are too expensive, their second-hand value is risible, the batteries only last about 15 years and cost thousands to replace. If, that is, you get lucky and they don’t burst into flames first.

The charging network (save for Tesla’s Supercharger network) is a mess here in America, as well as in the UK. That desperately needs to be improved. EV range is sometimes overstated, though it’s not the issue she makes it out to be here, in that nobody is giving range estimates based on constant 20 mph driving. She made that shit up. And, yes, batteries are expensive as hell to replace, and buying used EVs can be something of a minefield. That’s true!

But most of these are solvable problems. Charging networks will improve – they pretty much have to, and, even better, there’s money to be made when someone finally does get their shit together, so that’s a pretty good incentive. I personally think EV batteries should be standardized and replaceable, but even if no one listens to me about that, I am confident that the tech will gradually improve and battery lifespans will continue to grow, as they have been, and the tech will generally develop, as history has shown it has been.

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The premise of this column is ridiculous; calling for a “stop” to a whole technological development of cars because of some accidents and fires is not a serious thing to ask; it only serves to stir turds, vigorously. All kinds of cars catch on fire, and have been catching on fire, for literal centuries. You can go all the way back to Richard Trevithick’s Puffing Devil from 1801, a steam-powered pioneering car that burned itself to slag on Camborne Hill, and car fires haven’t stopped since then.

Sure, the fires aren’t the same as lithium-ion fires, which have their own considerable challenges, but gas-fueled cars catch on fire, and those fires have killed many, many people. So many people have died in car-related incidents, and while each one is tragic, we deal with it by doing all we can to improve safety from engineering and procedural and legal and every other angle we can think up.

[Ed Note: For the record, here’s how the EPA addresses the “EVs are less safe” myth:

FACT: Electric vehicles must meet the same safety standards as conventional vehicles.

All light duty cars and trucks sold in the United States must meet the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. To meet these standards, vehicles must undergo an extensive, long-established testing process, regardless of whether the vehicle operates on gasoline or electricity. Separately, EV battery packs must meet their own testing standards. Moreover, EVs are designed with additional safety features that shut down the electrical system when they detect a collision or short circuit.

EV fires are nasty, but I’m not convinced EVs are more dangerous than gas cars. I haven’t seen any data to suggest that, and I’ve heard plenty of claims of the opposite being true. -DT]. 

This is how human development works, and has always worked. We try things, we do our best, and, generally, we don’t just give up, especially not when someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about makes some dumb claims and some good claims, but wraps them in fear and some sort of peculiar anti-progress rhetoric, and gets some digital canary cage-liner rag to print them.

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Also, the last line of the column:

Oh dear. Time to go into reverse gear, don’t you think?

… is just embarrassing.

Fuck off, Allison.

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Dar Khorse
Dar Khorse
6 months ago

But wait! I found proof of a coverup of the lithium ion battery explosion that burned down that parking garage! Just look at this video taken at the scene and the government official covering it up!

Or maybe it was at one of those battery-filled coffee shops you mentioned. Anyway, batteries are bad! Run away!!

(/s obviously)

Last edited 6 months ago by Dar Khorse
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
6 months ago

Pearson has a large collection of garbage hot takes here.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/authors/a/ak-ao/allison-pearson/

“A large collection of garbage hot takes” summarizes The Telegraph pretty well.

Beatle
Beatle
6 months ago

Hot garbage takes.

Chris Hoffpauir
Chris Hoffpauir
6 months ago

This stuff reminds me of when Edison electrocuted an elephant to illustrate the dangers of alternating current.

It didn’t stop anyone from adopting AC. The only participant who though AC was a bad idea was the elephant.

Cal67
Cal67
6 months ago

There is some good reading of all kinds of alarmism at https://pessimistsarchive.org/.
Humanity has always had those who were incorrect on reactions on both sides of any technological change or advancement.

Black Peter
Black Peter
6 months ago
Reply to  Cal67

Oh yes, I’m sure the pearl clutching around Horseless Carriages was monumental!!

thejewosh
thejewosh
6 months ago

I mean let’s get real. EVs running on lithium batteries are just a stopgap. The real future is nuclear power. That’s why I’m heavily invested in VaultTec.

Chris Hoffpauir
Chris Hoffpauir
6 months ago
Reply to  thejewosh

We were supposed to have Mr. Fusion by now…

Eephus
Eephus
6 months ago

She’s aware that most non-EV cars carry large tanks of gasoline, right? Pumped at considerable pressure through lines that could spring a leak at ANY SECOND? Oh the horror

Parsko
Parsko
6 months ago
Reply to  Eephus

What pressure does DI work at???? Like…. 2000psi? No issues there, perfectly safe.

Black Peter
Black Peter
6 months ago
Reply to  Eephus

To be fair though, the procedures and techniques to fight gasoline and diesel fires is really old. Meanwhile I don’t think we have a handle on all aspects of EV fires. Remember all those flooded Teslas they parked 20 feet apart, because they had no idea what would happen? Right here in Phoenix a Nikola truck reignited a week after a fire.. That doesn’t happen with ICE cars.

PajeroPilot
PajeroPilot
6 months ago

Ugh. This hysterical, speculative bullshit again: “every time there is a vehicle fire it must be caused by an EV because lithium batteries occasionally go into thermal runaway with catastrophic consequences and there were definitely never any fires on car transporters or in parking garages until the evil invention of EVs that those left wing greenwashing elites are all forcing us to drive.”

We have a YouTube hack here in Australia, John Cadogan, the self professed “Auto Expert”. He claims to be an automotive engineer (but just seems to run an auto brokering business) and not anti EV. However he seems to get a major hard on every time there is a car transporter or parking garage fire rushing to inform us that “it’s a FACT an EV was to blame and the mainstream media are lying to you!” He must have studied journalism at the same school as this woman from The Telegraph.

https://youtu.be/zk0MWDsueMY?si=Sm4S2V2oX5zY5zDo

Chris Hoffpauir
Chris Hoffpauir
6 months ago
Reply to  PajeroPilot

EV battery fires are news because they are a new thing and relatively uncommon. Gasoline-powered car fires are common enough that they generally don’t get mentioned beyond the traffic report or a blurb in the 11 o’clock news.

PajeroPilot
PajeroPilot
6 months ago

Oh, I totally understand that fires involving new technology are newsworthy. Also, I will admit that fires involving lithium ion batteries are very nasty indeed and that new firefighting strategies are needed to deal with these incidents.

However what is ridiculous is articles like for example, this Telegraph article accusing an EV for starting the fire when it has been proven NOT to be the cause and my example where old mate attributes any fire at all involving a large group of vehicle to an EV, without any proof.

There was a similar parking garage fire in the UK in Liverpool about 5 years ago. It had apocalyptic looking results – the concrete decks had collapsed in parts. That one also, somewhat shockingly, somewhat humorously, started in a Land Rover.

My 0.02 Cents
My 0.02 Cents
6 months ago

They used too.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a14532446/old-land-rover-catches-fire-destroys-roughly-1400-cars-in-u-k/

It seems LR kept the “burning 1400 cars and a parking structure feature”

Ryanola
Ryanola
6 months ago

LOL, you’re just the best…

Bison78
Bison78
6 months ago

I propose that Ms. Pearson gives up her cellphone, because it contains a dangerous Lithium Ion battery. Imagine carrying such a dangerous fire hazard with you! I be she even takes in on planes!

Chris Hoffpauir
Chris Hoffpauir
6 months ago
Reply to  Bison78

The horror. The horror.

Snake_in_the_grass
Snake_in_the_grass
6 months ago
Reply to  Bison78

She’s really going to flip her lid when she learns those planes make use of lithium ion batteries.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Boeing_787_Dreamliner_grounding

Cerberus
Cerberus
6 months ago

At the mention of writing romance novels, my nose involuntarily scrunched up in disgust, which kind of sucked because I just had a gum graft and I felt that. And how did someone get burned that badly in a gazebo conflagration (oh, the humanity!)? OK, let’s say it starts at the doorway. Aren’t gazebos, you know, open? Sure, they might have screens over the walled areas, but in an emergency, is that going to stop you? I’ve seen medium dogs bust through screen doors. I’m not buying that I-know-a-guy story any more than I’m buying one of her mass market romance novels.

I was against the idea of non-integrated battery packs originally for engineering, weight, and possible issues with it limiting advancement, but I’ve fully come around to thinking those compromises are worth it for the potential benefits in more financially viable vehicle longevity. Batteries will only get more compact, so a standardized modular system should be able to be designed to accommodate different capacities/vehicle footprint and will allow either dead space for the same power or greater density of future battery replacements with a higher capacity per volume.

Bison78
Bison78
6 months ago

It’s the Telegraph, which has migrated from legitimate reporting to full-on right wing propaganda — at least in it’s online version. The printed papers don’t seem to have the propaganda so prominent.

Jack Trade
Jack Trade
6 months ago
Reply to  Bison78

I wondered about that, thank you. The tone of online stuff seems way different I remember the actual paper being, albeit it’s been quite a few years since I last held one.

Like how I’ve noticed of late that Newsweek, previously a middle of the road pop-news magazine back in the day seems to have morphed online into a click-baity Buzzfeed-ish thing for those of us old enough to remember hard copy Newsweek I guess.

Chris Hoffpauir
Chris Hoffpauir
6 months ago
Reply to  Jack Trade

I agree. Newsweek has lost all credibility.

JunkerDave
JunkerDave
6 months ago
Reply to  Jack Trade

Newsweek went downhill when the Moonies bought it.

Alan Bradley
Alan Bradley
6 months ago
Reply to  Bison78

The thing is that they have very well-respected motoring correspondents. Clearly, they’ve not been allowed anywhere near this absolute bollocks.

Freelivin2713
Freelivin2713
6 months ago

Yup, what a ridiculous article she wrote- delusional, closed-minded, uninformed and not doing diligent research from multiple sources…also being pessimistic and not providing solutions to a man/female-made problem…goes back to that if man/female made it, they can fix/advance it because they are the ones who made it!

Hoonicus
Hoonicus
6 months ago

I totally agree EV batteries  should be standardized and replaceable and hadn’t seen that article before. It would go a long way in value retention, usable lifespan, and ecological justification. As much as I relish your word play, one must be careful not to kick off a new cult with Sasquatch Santa Claus!

Col Lingus
Col Lingus
6 months ago

Fuck off Allison, second the motion.
Waiting for her expose’ on Jewish Space Lasers.
What an idiot.

Hugh Crawford
Hugh Crawford
6 months ago

Chuck Berry wrote John B Goodenough, then after some reflection deemed the song merely adequate. He changed it to Johnny B Good and the rest is history.

Crank Shaft
Crank Shaft
6 months ago

Pure distilled idiocy.

I’ve heard petroleum products can sometimes catch fire too. Hell, I’ve even heard of some countries using the stuff in war machines to kill people. We really need to outlaw all petroleum products immediately for the safety of all. Think of the Children!

Also, I sure hope she doesn’t have a cell phone in her possession. Those things all have little lithium bombs in them just waiting to explode in the presence of liberals.

Oh yeah, coal dust can also explode. And grain, and natural gas too. Explosions are even more dangerous, right?

OMG, I just realized there are some people out there mixing various powders and chemicals together which can produce explosive products. Some asshole even mixed nitroglycerin with clay! Where is the outrage?

Dalton
Dalton
6 months ago

British fear-mongering is a special level of pathetic. The pearl clutching over “video nasties” and “ninja panic” in the 80’s is still alive and well thanks so people like Allison.

SNL-LOL Jr
SNL-LOL Jr
6 months ago

I can’t believe it’s not butter Daily Fail.

Canopysaurus
Canopysaurus
6 months ago

Three words: Adrian, balaclava, hammer.

Chris Hoffpauir
Chris Hoffpauir
6 months ago
Reply to  Canopysaurus

Damn! Now I want baklava.

Data
Data
6 months ago

Blimey! It’s British Ann Coulter.

LTDScott
LTDScott
6 months ago

When I read something like the Telegraph article, I often think what it’d be like if we didn’t already drive internal combustion vehicles and didn’t already have gas stations.

“Yeah I want to build a 40,000 gallon in-ground tank of volatile carcinogenic solvents on every street corner in every town. Also I’m gonna have unsupervised pumps with built in payment terminals so people can fill their personal vehicles with 20 gallons of it at once, accurate to the hundredth of a gallon. Did I mention this shit gives you cancer and explodes?”

Yet here we are.

A. Barth
A. Barth
6 months ago

There was a good political satire show on the BBC called ‘Yes, Minister’ that laid out the stereotypes in the early 1980s:

Sir Humphrey: The only way to understand the Press is to remember that they pander to their readers’ prejudices.

Jim Hacker: Don’t tell me about the Press. I know *exactly* who reads the papers. The Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country; The Guardian is read by people who think they *ought* to run the country; The Times is read by the people who actually *do* run the country; The Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country; The Financial Times is read by people who *own* the country; The Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by *another* country; and The Daily Telegraph is read by people who think it is.

Sir Humphrey: Oh, and Prime Minister, what about the people who read The Sun?

Bernard Woolley: Sun readers don’t care who runs the country as long as she’s got big [redacted].

My 0.02 Cents
My 0.02 Cents
6 months ago
Reply to  A. Barth

Big “assets”.
I moved from the UK to the USA and a few years later came back for a Holiday (vacation), I checked page three of the Sun to see if the fair maidens were still there in all their glory. My American wife could not believe such a thing would be in the national press.

“Yes Minister” was a fantastic show, “Yes Prime Minister” was good too.

Jack Trade
Jack Trade
6 months ago

When I saw the headline, my first thought was “The Autopian is making EVs?! Yeah, I’m no fearmonger, but I’m not sure that’s a good idea and maybe they SHOULD stop.”

JaredTheGeek
JaredTheGeek
6 months ago

We saw your work with batteries in the past, not sure those techniques would pass muster on other vehicles.

Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
6 months ago
Reply to  JaredTheGeek

NHTSA safety tests should include a torch test performed with chainsaws.

EPGCivic
EPGCivic
6 months ago

I think on the old site there was an article talking about this fire. Per 1,000 cars the hybrids actually had the most fires followed by gas, then EV. It was interesting because I am considering a hybrid.

JaredTheGeek
JaredTheGeek
6 months ago
Reply to  EPGCivic

Even then the percentage is so low it’s not a concern. Its less than one half of one percent of vehicles. You are more likely to die driving than any vehicle catching fire.

EPGCivic
EPGCivic
6 months ago
Reply to  JaredTheGeek

Absolutely. People on cell phones scare me more than my car catching on fire.

*found the link:
https://www.autoserviceworld.com/what-type-of-vehicle-catches-fire-most-often/

JaredTheGeek
JaredTheGeek
6 months ago
Reply to  EPGCivic

For what its worth, the estimates that AutoInsuranceEZ, a lead generator for car insurance companies, used are dubious at best. They are way higher than the National Fire Protection Association estimate at 117,400 or so per year excluding motorcycles, busses, and semi-trucks.

Last edited 6 months ago by JaredTheGeek
Canopysaurus
Canopysaurus
6 months ago
Reply to  EPGCivic

People with burning cell phone really scare me.

JaredTheGeek
JaredTheGeek
6 months ago
Reply to  Canopysaurus

The real danger are the friends we made along the way.

JaredTheGeek
JaredTheGeek
6 months ago

We are already changing battery chemistry to some that have extremely low fire risk, even current batteries in cars have a ludicrously low chance of a fire. The main issue is there just are not good techniques and training in dealing with BEV fires. That is already changing. I am sure she wrote the article on a Macbook with her iPhone near which has a much greater possibility of catching fire in a thermal runaway even as they do not have thermal management of their batteries.

There are risks, they are miniscule. Batteries also don’t just explode like gasoline vapors do.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
6 months ago

I agree our biggest problem is ourselves. But for fun if an ICE vehicle started the fire but an EV was caught up and caused the higher temperature and higher damage how do we assess culpability? If not for A it would have not happened or if not for B it would not have been that bad. IMHO we need EVs we don’t need only EVs. That would cause more problems than the regular occurrence of global temperature change.

JaredTheGeek
JaredTheGeek
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

Having all BEVs would not create a worse disaster that global climate destabilization.

Last edited 6 months ago by JaredTheGeek
Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
6 months ago
Reply to  JaredTheGeek

You obviously missed my point.we need EVs. But passing laws that all ICE car production needs eliminated in 8 years and everything must be EV will cause far more damage than allowing nature to settle down.

JaredTheGeek
JaredTheGeek
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

Nature will not just settle down, that’s the problem. People hate change, every step of the way to adoption of cars in the first place was supported by government mandates. From roads, to removing lead from gasoline, it has all required government intervention. If nature could just settle down, we wouldn’t have toxic drinking water in many locales from a century of pollution.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
6 months ago
Reply to  JaredTheGeek

And yet everything government steps in they make it worse. I think you are ignorant that EvV will improve because mining will cause tremendous damage and we will never produce enuf to go all ev

JaredTheGeek
JaredTheGeek
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

I dunno man, my old job had me responding to oil spills. It’s devastating. We also responded to other spills.

The way they get lithium now is already changing from distillation ponds to a faster, cleaner process. Cobalt is going away in batteries.

I’m pretty sure you just watch too much Fox news or whatever.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
6 months ago
Reply to  JaredTheGeek

We do need to make wise decisions to ensure the future of life on this planet. But government tit sucking funkiest are not the weasels we need to make the decisions. Most times they make it worse. Yes no lead better air but worse ground pollution. Create electro dams. Kill fish. Establish a country for displaced Jews tortured and killed by nazis. Needed but in the middle of area filled with people just as evil? Maybe not. An interstate highway system? He’ll yeah. Destroy more small towns than running out of gold destroyed. We need smart people thinking for good of mankind the last thing we need is politicians the people too stupid to have a real job.

Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

That’s absurd.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
6 months ago

Okay I got logic and math and common sense on my side show me your cards.

JaredTheGeek
JaredTheGeek
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

Show us, because it’s not adding up.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
6 months ago
Reply to  JaredTheGeek

That’s what I said

JaredTheGeek
JaredTheGeek
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

Show us your math, literally no science backs your position.

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