Home » Volkswagen Has A Ticking Time Bomb That Could Hurt It More Than Dieselgate

Volkswagen Has A Ticking Time Bomb That Could Hurt It More Than Dieselgate

Cariad Time Bomb Ts2
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In the great film Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid the eponymous characters find themselves trapped against a ledge overlooking a roaring river. Paul Newman’s Cassidy wants to jump but Redford’s Sundance absolutely refuses. He won’t be budged.

Eventually, Sundance admits he can’t swim, leading Newman to twist his face into one of his classic wry smiles and laughs and give one of the most famous lines in all of cinema: “Are you crazy? The fall will probably kill you!”

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

And so it is with Volkswagen. Pundits and execs were so concerned with the fallout from Dieselgate and so pleased that Volkswagen seemed to be investing in electrification/software/autonomous cars that few seemed to ponder what would happen if those investments went sour. As far as I can tell, most of those investments have gone awry and now Volkswagen CEO Oliver Blume has a narrow window of time to defuse another potential bomb.

The Morning Dump is going to return to some familiar characters. In Germany, we’ve got Volkswagen trying to salvage its software. In Japan, it’s Nissan that’s in trouble, with the CEO taking a huge pay cut and an activist investor buying shares. Honda has been performing much better but finds its troubled line of V6 engines back under investigation.

Heading south to Vietnam, it’s VinFast that needs help, with the founder dumping more cash into the enterprise. It’s rough out there, folks!

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Volkswagen Has A Software Problem

Cariad Groupapplicationstore

In the wake of Dieselgate, Volkswagen made a bunch of investments to try to modernize the company. Most of these deals were made under then-CEO Herbert Diess and, with the benefit of hindsight, most of these were bad bets.

Fundamentally, the company viewed its mistakes as mistakes, and not as a deeper, almost pathological inability to reform the more existential and fundamental rot at the heart of the company. Volkswagen is an organization run by engineers, and those engineers are great, but when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.

Volkswagen’s spending spree was built on the assumption that if given enough money and enough engineers Volkswagen, alone or with partners, could solve all of its problems quickly. It could not. I’ve already talked too much about the company’s overenthusiastic and underwhelming electrification plans, but I don’t even think that’s Wolfsburg’s biggest sin.

Is it charging? Some smart lawyers convinced the government that Volkswagen should be allowed to spend a portion of its Dieselgate fines creating a charging alternative to Tesla that would ultimately be called Electrify America. It was so bad that it convinced companies, including Volkswagen itself, to flee to Tesla’s charging standard.

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That’s not great, but perhaps autonomous driving is worse. Diess, in all his wisdom, made a bunch of assisted driving deals. There was the money put into Ford/Amazon’s ArgoAI, which almost immediately collapsed, leaving VW short about $2.7 billion. At the same time, there’s a deal for advanced driving with Horizon Robotics in China, Bosch for much of Volkswagen, and Israel’s Mobileye for Porsche and Audi.

How does that work? According to this report from Manager Magazine, it does not:

Bosch is behind schedule, the company says. But the Stuttgart-based company has the right to market the software it has developed to third parties. If it pulls out, Volkswagen is expecting payments of almost two billion euros. The contract was well negotiated by the Bosch people, says one person involved in the deal.

However, the Mobileye exit would be just as costly, and those involved fear further delays. But the trend is moving in Bosch’s direction. The German partner’s system is currently being “intensively tested, and we will continue to do so in the coming weeks,” commented a Volkswagen executive. However, it is possible that both partners will continue to work together for a while, especially since a fully autonomous shuttle project with Mobileye at VW Commercial Vehicles would probably continue.

Even with all of that I still think that Volkswagen’s central software company, Cariad, is the biggest liability. It’s what someone at the company in that piece above calls “[T]he biggest bomb this company has ever created.”

This is why the Rivian deal that new VW CEO Oliver Blume made actually does make a lot of sense. As I wrote when the deal was announced:

Volkswagen, like most automakers, realized a few years ago that what Tesla was doing was shifting the desirability of cars purely from their stats/comfort/style (hardware) to their added electronic abilities (software). This is how we get the industry term Software-Defined Vehicles or SDV.

At the time, VW did what a big company is going to do and created a company called Cariad (originally Car.Software, which, lol). The company staffed it up with thousands of engineers to build a software platform for all Škodas and SEATs and Porsches and Bentleys and everything else.

Believe it or not, the move-slowly-and-don’t-break-things approach of VW didn’t work. The company lost billions of dollars and produced software that is fine, I guess.

The Rivian deal, while smart, is capitulation. It’s an acknowledgment that not only is Volkswagen not capable of engineering itself a solution to most of its problems, but it’s also historically been terrible at finding partners that can deliver. Rivian is likely the exception because Rivian, unlike a lot of other VW tie-ups, has already produced and fielded a product that a lot of people like.

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Also, if Rivian doesn’t work out as a company, that’s not terrible for Volkswagen, as that same Manager Magazine article points out:

The pact with Rivian could quickly become more expensive than the estimated $5 billion – because the company burns money faster than you can watch. The company reported an operating loss of $108,000 per car sold after three quarters of 2024, plus a good $8 billion in debt and payment obligations. At some point, a complete takeover might be necessary if things continue like this.

Intrigue! Volkswagen owning Rivian isn’t the worst outcome for either company, although given Volkswagen’s current crisis, I think it’s a little bit of hubris on the part of the Germans to assume it won’t go the other way. At least VW has a company that can quickly merge with Scout.

Nissan Has An Everything Problem, A Possible Solution

2023 Nissan Z Press Kit
Source: Nissan.

If you want to know what’s wrong at Nissan you can read this piece, but I can sum it up for you: Everything. Nissan isn’t good in China, it’s struggling in the United States [Ed Note: But It does offer quite a few sub-$30,000 vehicles, which we’re all for. -DT], it’s no longer attached to Renault, and therefore doesn’t compete well in Europe, either. Last week, the company cut 9,000 jobs and the CEO cut his pay in half.

Shares in the company, predictably, plummeted. Then, all of a sudden, shares in the company rallied with the highest jump in 15 years. What happened? An activist investor with a history of corporate turnarounds took a 2.5% stake in the company.

I’ll let Bloomberg explain:

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Suntera (Cayman) Ltd., a trustee of ECM Master Fund, was identified as the buyer of the stake in a filing by Nissan. ECM Master Fund was cited in past regulatory filings as being managed by Effissimo Capital Management Pte, a Singapore-based hedge fund that buys into distressed companies.

Effissimo controls the stake, a person with knowledge of the matter said. The fund is best known for taking on Japan’s Toshiba Corp. in a landmark moment for corporate accountability in Japan. The conglomerate’s chief executive officer resigned in 2021 after the fund accused company of infringing on shareholders, and Toshiba accepted a buyout offer two years later.

Nissan isn’t completely unsalvagable as a company, it’s just going to take a lot of reorganizing. The market seems to think that Effissimo can work some sort of magic or, at least, do enough to make a merger with a company like Honda a possibility.

Honda Has A V6 Problem

2016 Honda Pilot

Last year around this time Honda recalled about 250,000 units of its 3.5-liter V6 motor over concerns that a manufacturing defect could cause the connecting rod bearing to fail and seize up, thus causing the whole thing to go kabloeey.

Now the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is wondering if that recall was big enough.

Per Reuters

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The U.S. auto safety agency said it has 173 reports of the issue in various Honda and Acura vehicles from the 2016-2020 model years. NHTSA’s probe is to determine the severity of the issue and to determine if the vehicles not included in the 2023 recall should be covered.

Honda said Monday it was aware of the probe and “has already been in communication with the agency on this topic and will continue to cooperate with the NHTSA through the query process.”

If there is an issue and a recall happens, Honda will likely have to inspect 1.4 million additional vehicles and replace or repair those engines.

VinFast Has A Money Problem

Vinfast Vf5

If you play cards enough you’ll eventually learn the concept of “pot committed.” This is where a person is willing to keep putting money into the pot, no matter what the odds say and no matter what new cards appear. This is, typically, a bad thing.

Vietnamese automaker VinFast has not had a great time in the United States and has also struggled globally, leading founder and Vingroup chairman Pham Nhat Vuong to insist he wasn’t going to put more money into the automaker.

Can you guess what happened? According to new filings, he’s put more money into the company.

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From Electrek:

Vietnamese EV automaker VinFast has just secured more funding to continue its operations. VinFast has been offered a loan for billions more from its parent company, Vingroup, including a $2.1 billion “sponsorship” from the Group’s chairman, Pham Nhat Vuong. All this is to achieve a break-even point and cash flow balance by the end of 2026.

The car business is hard.

What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

There’s this band from Houston called The Tontons and I’m a big fan, although they seem barely together and only rarely play concerts. This is almost ten years old, but it’s great.

The Big Question

Are you getting tired of hearing about Volkswagen’s woes? I won’t be mad. You can tell me.

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Photo: Volkswagen/depositphotos.com

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Damon Young
Damon Young
19 days ago

I have been driving for 41 years. I have had 3.5 Volkswagens in the family. In order of ownership: 1980 Rabbit 4 speed manual, 197something Beetle convertible 4 speed manual, 1972 Porsche 914 (the .5) and earlier this year I bought a 2010 Eos with a six speed manual that had just 38,000 miles. I have extremely unhealthy levels of love for this car. It is very German – elegant, comfortable, fast, and super well engineered. If VW can figure out how to contine to make innovative and quality products then it will survive. VAG is so huge though it is mind boggling to think it will fail.

Michael Ballezza
Michael Ballezza
20 days ago

Cariad, more like Car IED, c’mon Matt, the graphic or tagline can be edited easy enough

Horizontally Opposed
Horizontally Opposed
20 days ago

VW is the Boeing of the car industry. Ran when parked (by engineers) but parked it was by a new generation of bosses with sharp focus on finance tricks because personal gain. And as it always does, when product is no longer the company focus, bad stuff happens. Dieselgate or the Boeing Max saga, the result is the destruction of the company. Stellantis follows the same playbook, along with Nissan under Tavares’s friend, and so on.

SarlaccRoadster
SarlaccRoadster
20 days ago

I’m struggling to find that golden engineering period of Stellantis, tho..

Horizontally Opposed
Horizontally Opposed
20 days ago

Ha! I guess depends how you look at it: the entity itself is fresh, but its brands definitely have panache: Jeep, Dodge, Alfa etc.

SarlaccRoadster
SarlaccRoadster
20 days ago

Sure, any of those brands (and that includes the french ones) had great engineering if you go back in time enough, but since they became just nameplates under a huge corporate behemoth? That level of consolidation is ruled by accountants and MBAs by design.

Goblin
Goblin
20 days ago

Everybody who split from Renault did well.
Nissan will have few lean moments, then recover to its beautiful previous self.

SarlaccRoadster
SarlaccRoadster
20 days ago
Reply to  Goblin

Oh, yes! Because they wanted to be free from the french tyranny (who poured money into Nissan and had a vested interest for it to succeed), they’ll sell themselves to private equity (who just want to make a quick buck, the company be damned)! That move always goes well, and the company is sure to prosper!!
LOL

Last edited 20 days ago by SarlaccRoadster
Goblin
Goblin
19 days ago

I didn’t say that Renault had ill will. I said that everyone who split from them did well. Usually – after Renault paying their debts. Jeep in the eighties comes to mind. They (or whatever the mothership was) allied with Renault (which was then still state-owned), Renault poured a couple of billion in 80’s dollars and wiped their slate clean, then gave it all up basically for nothing, in exchange for some inter-governments deal.

Last edited 19 days ago by Goblin
Grey alien in a beige sedan
Grey alien in a beige sedan
21 days ago

HOT TAKE: Stellantis buys Nissan. Because they need yet another nameplate they can drive deeply into the ground.

Spikedlemon
Spikedlemon
20 days ago

Does it count if the stake’s already firmly planted?

Double Wide Harvey Park
Double Wide Harvey Park
20 days ago
Reply to  Spikedlemon

Yeah, with Nissan there’s no value left for Tavares to destroy.

PresterJohn
PresterJohn
21 days ago

I recently discovered there is a VinFast dealer relatively close to me. I plan on test driving a VF8 soon for the hell of it. I must know if the suspension is really that bad

Davey
Davey
21 days ago

Volkswagen engineers are great? Have you owned a recent VW?

Tall_J
Tall_J
21 days ago
Reply to  Davey

Yes, and the engineers could fix it so they bought it back.

Ben
Ben
21 days ago

Volkswagen is an organization run by engineers

Citation needed. I’m pretty sure engineers were not the root cause of dieselgate. MBAs who set unreasonable goals are to blame there. I strongly suspect engineers are not behind their failed investments in autonomy either since engineers would know the tech is not anywhere near ready for primetime.

Ajax
Ajax
20 days ago
Reply to  Ben

https://www.volkswagen-group.com/en/executive-bodies-15790#

VW’s exec team is almost entirely made up of people who have industrial, manufacturing, automotive and design engineering experience and degrees. Several are PHDs in their respective fields. Many were high ranking when VW’s scandals occurred. You may argue that they may not be involved in the day to day, but the buck stops with them. The folks found culpable and fired as a result of dieselgate were also engineers.

I’m not saying that the bean counters are not to blame, but greed isn’t degree specific and is more a function of incentives rather than the degree or qualifications you hold (see also doctors prescribing certain medications because they are paid to…not necessarily what’s best for the patient).

Ben
Ben
20 days ago
Reply to  Matt Hardigree

Fair enough. I guess this is just further proof that power corrupts.

3WiperB
3WiperB
21 days ago

In summary, it sounds like everything is going great! /s

Parsko
Parsko
21 days ago
Reply to  3WiperB

The greatest part is that we are ignoring all the great work being done for our future. For instance, how great the EPA is going to be in a few months. So great. The greatest of great.

Library of Context
Library of Context
21 days ago
Reply to  3WiperB

“Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?”

Col Lingus
Col Lingus
20 days ago
Reply to  3WiperB

Same as it ever was…

Jrobie
Jrobie
21 days ago

Tesla was … shifting the desirability of cars purely from their stats/comfort/style (hardware) to their added electronic abilities (software).”

Is this a thing that Tesla did? It sounds like a concept that gives shareholders a boner, but does it really move human people to purchase cars? I know I’d be highly unlikely to buy a car that doesn’t support Android Auto, but beyond that I can’t imagine giving a damn.

DadBod
DadBod
21 days ago
Reply to  Jrobie

I never thought of it like that, but you’re totally right. All the Tesla buyers I know wanted an electric car, not a Tesla Software Platform. All the screen driven features and stuff were post-purchase discoveries.

JT4Ever
JT4Ever
21 days ago
Reply to  Jrobie

I frequent the F150 Lightning forums/Reddits, and the software is constantly compared (unfavorably) to Tesla’s. I do think for at least some people the software experience actually makes a difference. I don’t understand this logic at all, but it’s definitely real and something automakers will have to address going forward. Fart horns for all!

Kevin B Rhodes
Kevin B Rhodes
21 days ago
Reply to  Jrobie

Unfortunately for those of us who hate that shit, yes, people are wowed by and love the software nonsense. Every person I have ever met who loves Teslas raves about all the crap the software can do.

Bob the Hobo
Bob the Hobo
21 days ago
Reply to  Jrobie

It fits the theme of Musk’s insistence that Tesla is a tech company and not a car company. Their goal is to excite the people who have to have the latest iPhone or try the newest tech fad like smart glasses. It just happens that Teslas also make for a decent EV choice, so they attract buyers beyond that demographic. Other companies want those same customers, so they try to follow that lead.

Eggsalad
Eggsalad
21 days ago

People used to buy VW because they were well-engineered, well-built, and just plain different. Now they’re just a “me too” company. Nowadays, the Jetta is just a worse Corolla than Toyota builds.

Michael Beranek
Michael Beranek
21 days ago
Reply to  Eggsalad

They were also cheap and reliable, but not since Ferdie turned every VW into a frackin’ Phaeton.

Ron Gartner
Ron Gartner
21 days ago

I remember as a kid, my mom always had a VW (usually a Jetta or a Passat) up until the B6 platform when it became more expensive than it’s competitors and basic maintenance and service was becoming more expensive. She unceremoniously sold her B5 Passat for a used Ford Escape (with the V6!) which ended up being more reliable and cheaper experience as a whole.

Nowadays? Forget about it. My Mom will wax fantastic about her old Jetta until the cows come home. We went to the Chicago Auto Show last year and she laughed when she saw the VW Atlas. Her exact words were, “Why wouldn’t I just buy the Kia Telluride? Better warranty, cheaper car, same experience.”

Double Wide Harvey Park
Double Wide Harvey Park
20 days ago

Cheap, reliable, well engineered, well built?

Are we talking about Mazda here? Because for as long as I’ve been alive, the last 3 haven’t been associated with VW.

Michael Beranek
Michael Beranek
20 days ago

My first VWs were all ’76s- a Dasher and two Sciroccos. They were simple, stout, and easy to maintain. The FI was straightforward and worked forever without fuss. Transmissions didn’t break because they were almost all manuals. The electrics were basic because there wasn’t much in the way of power accessories.
They weren’t fast, even by malaise standards, but they handled awesome and the 4-wheel discs outperformed every other car on the road. The interiors were classy and businesslike and stuff didn’t break or wear prematurely.
This is what VW was, a people’s car, until sometime in the 1990s. After that, VW tried to compete with M-B and BMW (isn’t that what Audi is for?) and here we are.

Clark B
Clark B
21 days ago
Reply to  Eggsalad

I’ve owned a 2009 GTI, a 2012 CC, and currently daily a 2014 Sportwagen TDI. I can’t see myself buying a VW much newer than my Sportwagen, which itself is based on the MKV platform dating to the mid 2000’s. They’ve lost what made them unique in the market, and now offer a range of so-so SUVs and the outdated Jetta. Sure, they have the GTI and Golf R, but now they’ve axed the manual in the GTI those buyers will go buy their fun car from one of the automakers who will put a manual in a sport compact. The Bus will not be enough to make any difference for them. I keep forgetting the ID.4 exists because it’s that boring. I really miss the VW that brought you affordable cars that looked and drove nicer than their competition. All I have to do is drive a Corolla from the same time period as my Sportwagen to notice that. Shame that’s no longer the case. The wagon has joined my 1972 Super Beetle as my second “forever car.”

Last edited 21 days ago by Clark B
SarlaccRoadster
SarlaccRoadster
20 days ago
Reply to  Clark B

I’ve owned a Mk6 Golf TDI like yours, and the Mk7 TDI is a pretty big improvement. Too bad they only sold it in the US for one year before it was pulled.

Crimedog
Crimedog
21 days ago

Fundamentally, the company viewed its mistakes as mistakes, and not as a deeper, almost pathological inability to reform the more existential and fundamental rot at the heart of the company.”
Dang.
Show me on the doll where VW hurt you.

JDE
JDE
21 days ago
Reply to  Crimedog

the Spot with the TSI logo.

Alexk98
Alexk98
21 days ago
Reply to  Crimedog

I’ve got an inch long scar on my hand from VWs awful plasti-chrome on the shifter trim that peeled and decided to be razor sharp on my former ’18 GSW. Does that count?

Crimedog
Crimedog
20 days ago
Reply to  Alexk98

Yes?
If there are enough of all of these minor injuries, it could add up to the hatred implied by the blogger, but it sounds like they ripped out his soul….

Alexk98
Alexk98
20 days ago
Reply to  Crimedog

There were enough cuts from it that there was actually a recall, but I was too far from a VW dealer to make it worth the trip, and I had an OEM accessory shift knob/boot/trim assembly on it at the time, so I just swapped back to the original that hadn’t peeled yet.

Michael Beranek
Michael Beranek
21 days ago
Reply to  Crimedog

I’ll show you the spot on the doll if VW can tell me where they hid the A/C compressor controller on my old ’07 Golf.

Joe Average
Joe Average
20 days ago

Sounds like you need a Bentley manual…

JDE
JDE
21 days ago

with all the euro car makers woes lately, I am wondering if the Scout will make it to actual production or will it just be a bigger Elio?

Torque
Torque
21 days ago
Reply to  JDE

Much like GM and Chrisis-lyer* were massively bailed out in 2008 the German govt. will likewise bail VW out as it is too important to the German economy, a modern case of ‘too big to fail’, which is a troubling way to operate.

Of course All governments give enormous financial support to their automakers in good times and bad, with China being the most agreegious currently.

*I’m of equal opposing thoughts on Chryler on the one hand it was sad to see them absorbed in to a global foreign financial conglomerate, on the other hand, it seemed inevitable given they were fighting for survival for the past +40 years

Chronometric
Chronometric
21 days ago

Cariad is not a ticking time bomb. It is a sunk cost. If VW abandons it immediately, it doesn’t really cost them anything more other than supporting existing vehicles through their warranty period.

Wuffles Cookie
Wuffles Cookie
21 days ago
Reply to  Chronometric

Well, it’s a ticking time bomb from an accounting perspective if VW has not yet taken the write-down. Disclosing another multi-billion dollar flop right now would be… detrimental to their share price. (And almost certainly cost multiple someones in the C-suite their jobs).

Chronometric
Chronometric
21 days ago
Reply to  Wuffles Cookie

Ticking Neutron Bomb?

Torque
Torque
21 days ago
Reply to  Wuffles Cookie

If said c-suite people are still there And we’re in favor of the soon to be failed venture then good their assessment should be out

Rob Schneider
Rob Schneider
21 days ago
Reply to  Chronometric

This is kind of like when Microsoft bought Nokia’s cell phone business. They paid, what 4 or 4.5 billion dollars for it? At that point, yes, it’s a sunk cost, but it also shows up as an asset on the balance sheet.

The problem comes when you have to reset the value on the balance sheet to reflect its actual value to the company. How soon and/or how accurately they do that is the ticking time bomb.

In Microsoft’s case, they were able to weather that adjustment (down to basically zero, from what I remember) with it just being a little blip on their stock price history.

VW and Microsoft both have had several of these big oopsies lately, but Microsoft operates on higher margins. For VW, this could be less like death by a thousand cuts and more like death by several severe self inflicted wounds too close together (diesel gate, mbq platform, focus on SDV…)

DadBod
DadBod
21 days ago
Reply to  Rob Schneider

That was a sad period for me. As a Zune HD user, I loved the Microsoft phone UI. But they were outclassed on every front by Apple.

Rob Schneider
Rob Schneider
21 days ago
Reply to  DadBod

Yeah. Steve Balmer was no Steve Jobs.

That said, I think Searching for the Balmer Peak would make a great title for a movie or short story.

RataTejas
RataTejas
20 days ago
Reply to  DadBod

Windows phone was magnificent. Nokia quality hardware and an interface leaps ahead of everyone else.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
21 days ago

Are you getting tired of hearing about Volkswagen’s woes?”

Nah… keep it coming.

Geoff Buchholz
Geoff Buchholz
20 days ago

How handy that the Germans have a word for this…

Scone Muncher
Scone Muncher
21 days ago

RE: “underwhelming electrification”
My Golf has been back and forth to the dealer as they chase wiring harness issues (under warranty!) so I’ve spent a couple hours lately as a passenger in an ID4. It’s…fine? I can’t say how it drives other than it has the typical electric drive snappiness under the lead foot of the young man doing the shuttling, but the interior is nice enough. Too much Piano Black but I was whelmed.
All that said—the dealership is plastered with their ‘halo car’ Buzz, and when I asked a salesperson they shrugged and said, “We might have one in a few months.”
It really feels like they’re counting on existing reputation to see them through.

NC Miata NA
NC Miata NA
21 days ago
Reply to  Scone Muncher

Having owned an ID4 for a time, fine is about the best you can say about it.

Kurt Schladetzky
Kurt Schladetzky
21 days ago
Reply to  NC Miata NA

Also former ID.4 owner here. I honestly liked the car, but the software crashed constantly, rendering the infotainment and HVAC controls useless. That got old really quickly.

Scone Muncher
Scone Muncher
20 days ago

The fact that you’re both former *owners* (and not leaseholders) of a car that you jettisoned within just a couple years speaks volumes to me.

Yzguy
Yzguy
21 days ago

Effissimo sounds like an Italian swear word. Which probably sums up Nissan’s status quite well.

Michael Beranek
Michael Beranek
21 days ago
Reply to  Yzguy

“Maserati Effisimo- a car only for those with eff-u money”

NosrednaNod
NosrednaNod
21 days ago

“ It was so bad that it convinced companies, including Volkswagen itself, to flee to Tesla’s charging standard.”

I am just not sure I would put my eggs in the NACS “standard” these days if I built EVs.

Scone Muncher
Scone Muncher
21 days ago
Reply to  NosrednaNod

Wikipedia:
The North American Charging System (NACS), standardized as SAE J3400, is an electric vehicle (EV) charging connector standard maintained by SAE International….Unlike the Tesla proprietary connector which uses CAN bus to communicate, NACS uses the same ISO 15118 protocol as CCS, making any CCS vehicle electrically compatible with NACS.

It seems like you’re worried about the…fickleness…of the CEO of Tesla, but the charging standard is basically a solved problem, it’s out of Tesla’s hands now.

JDE
JDE
21 days ago
Reply to  Scone Muncher

The question will be if Tesla does the Apple BS and decides to change their interface just to be douches?

The Stig's Misanthropic Cousin
The Stig's Misanthropic Cousin
21 days ago
Reply to  NosrednaNod

Why not? NACS chargers are reliable and very easy to use. CCS chargers are often broken or difficult to use. I have had EVs with CHAdeMO, CCS, and NACS ports. The Supercharger network is great. Other charing networks (particularly Electrify America) are so bad I sometimes wonder if they are a part of a conspiracy to get people to buy ICE vehicles.

Also, far more cars have NACS ports than CCS ports. Tesla still has around 50% market share of US EVs. Given there past market share in the US, presumably a substantial majority of EVs on the roads are Teslas. Given how many manufacturers are switching to NACS, the share of EVs using NACS will increase.

Obviously, there is a risk that Elon will do something stupid and ruin the Tesla charging network. That seems less likely given how much revenue the supercharger network could generate in the future. Elon may be a bit of a wacko/supervillain, but he isn’t stupid.

Scone Muncher
Scone Muncher
21 days ago

The fact that a CCS charger can be rendered unusable if the fragile spring clip locking thingy is broken is an unforgivable design flaw.

NosrednaNod
NosrednaNod
20 days ago

“Obviously, there is a risk that Elon will do something stupid and ruin the Tesla charging network.”

That is the reason.

Arch Duke Maxyenko
Arch Duke Maxyenko
21 days ago

Shocked that the song choice this morning wasn’t Problems by Against Me!

Lotsofchops
Lotsofchops
21 days ago

VinFast’s problems are easily divided as follows: 50% to “building cars is really hard”, and 50% “VinFast is a stupid name.” Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

Taargus Taargus
Taargus Taargus
21 days ago
Reply to  Lotsofchops

VinFast sounding like a scam website for looking up VIN numbers probably doesn’t help their cause in the US market.

Bob the Hobo
Bob the Hobo
21 days ago
Reply to  Lotsofchops

VinFast would have been a better name for a CarFax competitor. Buying a used car? Just enter the VIN and get a report Fast! VinFast!

Squirrelmaster
Squirrelmaster
21 days ago
Reply to  Lotsofchops

I always thought VinFast sounded like a half-baked portmanteau of “VIN Diesel” and “Fast & Furious”.

Michael Beranek
Michael Beranek
21 days ago
Reply to  Lotsofchops

Yup, sounds like a guy from Elmwood Park named Vinnie Fusco.

Hiram McDaniel
Hiram McDaniel
21 days ago

Wonder if the VW issues mentioned here are partly responsible for Audi looking to back pedal a bit on their Formula One entry on 2026? That whole thing has been a bit of a fiasco so far.

PlugInPA
PlugInPA
21 days ago

Seems like this was published with a couple of editing notes still in it.

David Tracy
David Tracy
21 days ago
Reply to  PlugInPA

Behind the scenes!

SNL-LOL Jr
SNL-LOL Jr
21 days ago
Reply to  David Tracy

“The world wonders.”

Michael Beranek
Michael Beranek
21 days ago
Reply to  PlugInPA

Yup, they do that here, part of the charm.

PlugInPA
PlugInPA
21 days ago

There are always the Ed Notes, but there were also some things like “What’s a trouble line”?

Lotsofchops
Lotsofchops
21 days ago
Reply to  PlugInPA

No other car site has the CAJONES to give you a raw, behind-the-scenes look like The Autopian.

Mechjaz
Mechjaz
20 days ago
Reply to  PlugInPA

It’s still more polished than VW software.

Freelivin2713
Freelivin2713
19 days ago
Reply to  PlugInPA

There’s actually some guy named Ed who works here…still trying to figure out who he is

V10omous
V10omous
21 days ago

Keep the VW woes coming! As some small measure of revenge for the suffering they inflicted on me, I enjoy watching them fail (if only the Germans had a word for this exact situation).

In other troubled automaker news, the local CDJR dealer is offering me (and presumably anyone) $100 to come test drive a Hornet. I’ll be taking them up on this later today and report back. Not a great sign though!

Last edited 21 days ago by V10omous
The NSX Was Only in Development for 4 Years
The NSX Was Only in Development for 4 Years
21 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

But what advantages does this Hornet have over, say, walking? Which I can also afford.

Bob the Hobo
Bob the Hobo
21 days ago

Do you get $100 for test-walking? I think not.

PlugInPA
PlugInPA
21 days ago
Reply to  Bob the Hobo

For a while my employer was offering a substantial discount on health insurance for people getting a certain number of points in a wellness program, including by getting steps.

Bob the Hobo
Bob the Hobo
21 days ago
Reply to  PlugInPA

I suspect you could not multiply your wellness program points in the way you could game the CDJR Dealer promotion by dressing up in comical disguises with fake names.

Harvey Firebirdman
Harvey Firebirdman
21 days ago
Reply to  Bob the Hobo

Haha I was about to say this is a perfect opportunity if you have a bunch of disguises on hand.

JDE
JDE
21 days ago

However, this seems awfully similar to the Timeshare tactics. The required time saying no to the salesmen before they part with a 100 dollar AMEX gift card(only usable in certain places) is the real question.

Data
Data
21 days ago
Reply to  JDE

I got a $110 visa gift card for tires purchased last year. None of the website’s would allow me to enter that AND my personal card. In the end, I bought a $110 Amazon gift card for myself since there was no tax or shipping.

Kevin B Rhodes
Kevin B Rhodes
21 days ago
Reply to  Data

Aways the best use for those sorts of gift cards.

Michael Beranek
Michael Beranek
21 days ago
Reply to  JDE

We did a timeshare pitch in exchange for a $100 cert at a nice restaurant. By the time we got it, we would’ve rather just paid $100 for the meal.

RhoadBlock
RhoadBlock
20 days ago

One of our wedding gifts was from a travel agent friend of ours for a 2-night stay in the Bahamas with an overnight cruise there and back. Used it for our 1st anniversary and I upgraded to a 6-night stay.

Turned out we had to sit thru a timeshare spiel to get the boarding pass and hotel confirmation. The sales guy was getting frustrated with me as I kept refusing to buy into even their cheapest package and was for some reason appalled and deliberately rude to us when we walked without spending a dime to get the vacation tickets I thought was our wedding gift in the first place. But the Bahamas stay ended up being one of our best vacations in 11 years, less the most excruciating sunburn I’ve ever experienced, so it ended up one of the best and simultaneously worst gifts ever.

TL/DR: If I ever get blindsided with a gift that has a timeshare spiel catch tied to it again I’ll punch the gifter in the nose.

GreatFallsGreen
GreatFallsGreen
20 days ago
Reply to  RhoadBlock

So where did things stand between you and the friend afterwards? Don’t leave us hanging!

RhoadBlock
RhoadBlock
19 days ago

Lol! I suppose they were more of a friendly acquaintance than actual friend. We mostly used to hang with the same crowd regularly, all the same parties and events, not necessarily each other. Now we’re all grown up, live in different towns, and rarely see each other. Still on good terms tho haha.

GreatFallsGreen
GreatFallsGreen
21 days ago
Reply to  JDE

The test-drive promos are pretty common and CDJR sticks that on a lot of their dealer websites as a lead-gen tool. Usually you go in and they have to activate the code and it comes in the mail, rather than a stack of cards lying around.

Sometimes such promos pop up at auto shows, at least if they have manufacturer backing with official reps on the floor, they’d sign you up for an offer to get a prepaid Visa or whatever for a test drive at a dealer after the show. Ford was always good for this at our local auto show, my dad and I would go every year and make sure to talk to them. It’s 1 per address so need to use a work address or something if you’re with another member of the household.

Usually the Ford dealer would say “do you want to test drive or just want me to fill out the form?” and give their codes. At least a couple times I just used the same code after my dad went without going myself. Basically net out like going to the show for free and then some.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
21 days ago
Reply to  JDE

Our local amusement park Great America has a 4D ride based on – I think – the Mass Effect franchise. I had no idea what the ride was when I got in line.

Partway through the spiel there is an attack by giant alien bugs. It’s pretty terrifying for smaller children but for me the terror was at the very beginning when the premise of the ride was revealed to be a time share seminar.

Ugh! Never again!

Michael Beranek
Michael Beranek
21 days ago
Reply to  Bob the Hobo

Ooo we used to do that on Halloween and go back to the houses with the good candy.

Michael Beranek
Michael Beranek
21 days ago

With the money they’re laying on the hood, my dead hamster can afford a Hornet.

Lincoln Clown CaR
Lincoln Clown CaR
21 days ago

And may also need to do.

Lotsofchops
Lotsofchops
21 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

$100 could buy a decent used bicycle, smart move on your part. Hopefully they don’t ask for your address, social, medical history, and strip-search to get it.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
21 days ago
Reply to  Lotsofchops

“$100 could buy a decent used bicycle”

I’ve bought almost all my bikes for $100 and less, sometimes much less. I focus on fully lugged early to mid 80’s light tourers and all terrain bikes though. I have however gotten newer mountain bikes for free that folks just put out on the curb with a sign.

Bikes are a bit like cats and dogs, if you’re flexible on what you want and don’t mind a little work or an older model the free ones just show up, sometimes overwhelmingly so.

Taargus Taargus
Taargus Taargus
21 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

I eagerly await your report on the Hornet. Regular or PHEV version?

Also I’m fascinated in what hoops may, or may not be involved in getting that 100$.

V10omous
V10omous
21 days ago

See comment below for review.

Also the dealership staff said Stellantis did not prewarn them about the offer, and they had no way to access it without following up with corporate. So who knows if I’ll ever see any gift card but it does seem on brand.

Drive By Commenter
Drive By Commenter
21 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

Hmm. $100 to test drive a car?

Must be regional. Although I’m seeing $50 Amazon gift card around me for any CDJR vehicle.

V10omous
V10omous
21 days ago

I’ve had similar offers from other manufacturers although $100 is the most generous one I’ve seen so far.

Mike Smith
Mike Smith
21 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

Schade!

I recall at the time when VW publicly announced their intention to become the largest automaker in the world by volume, and the most common reaction was ‘but why would you want to do that?’ especially considering that their products were working quite well in their quasi-premium market niche. Then they sacrificed everything (quality and desirability) to very (very!) briefly take the volume crown from Toyota, and it’s been all downhill for them ever since. Hope it was worth it, Fergie!

Data
Data
21 days ago
Reply to  Mike Smith

Remember when Nissan’s goal under Carlos Ghosn was to reach 8% market share and they sacrificed new models, quality, and reputation? We did get the Big Altima Energy meme, though, so that’s something.

Kevin B Rhodes
Kevin B Rhodes
21 days ago
Reply to  Mike Smith

That have been the largest several times. Still number two or number three. They aren’t going anywhere – and don’t forget, a couple of German states own BIG chunks of them. And ultimately, their other divisions make bank – they just can’t seem to get the “People’s Cars” together anymore.

Though that said, I agree with you in theory. I would rather be Morgan than GM…

Chris Lochner
Chris Lochner
21 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

Backpfeifengesicht : A VW face in need of a punch.

V10omous
V10omous
21 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

V10omous Hornet driving review:

This was a base model GT, 2.0T not PHEV, sticker was about $33,000. Basically, the model you’ll probably rent at an airport in the near future.

I will start by saying I do not have a lot of experience with cheap compact CUVs, so I’m evaluating in a vacuum.

The highs:

-The seat was quite comfortable for a base model, cloth cushion.

-Even in base form, I like the styling. It’s aggressive without seemingly losing much functionality.

-Acceleration, handling, braking seem adequate if not especially thrilling given the marketing of the vehicle.

The lows:

-The NVH is so bad I can’t believe this product was approved for sale. Idling at a stop light is like doing so in the Viper, only with an engine a quarter the size and no side pipes. The seat shakes and the buzzing is incessant (maybe that’s why they call it the Hornet). Does anyone want this in their compact CUV?

-The transmission programming needs work. Shifts harshly when driving normally.

-The gauges are the weirdest I’ve ever seen. Starting in park, the only numbers illuminated on the speedometer are 0 and 160 mph, and for the tach, 0 and 7. The rest fill in only as the needle sweeps past them. I might get used to that, but it’s off-putting at first. I would never get used to a gas gauge and oil pressure gauge that seem not to work at all. I had no idea how much gas was in the vehicle (the miles to empty was also not working).

-The turn signal functionality is inscrutable. It doesn’t seem to have tap to signal three times available, but it also doesn’t physically move when you want the signal to remain on. So I’d be in a turn lane and the signal would stop flashing and I’d need to hit it again. But when changing lanes on the highway it would keep going and going.

-Rear visibility was notably poor compared to others in the class.

Obviously, I’m not the target market for this vehicle. So I’ve tried to keep my criticism as universal as possible. But besides the reports of poor quality (nothing seemed badly built on mine), this just seems half-baked.

Adding to the overall Stellantis experience, this dealer had a pink Wrangler 392 with a $105,000 MSRP in their showroom. Nothing against pink vehicles for those who want them, but this combo seemed especially poorly thought out. It’ll probably be there a year from now.

Last edited 21 days ago by V10omous
Ottomottopean
Ottomottopean
21 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

I find it really strange that (seemingly) the only US vehicles that have the tap turn signal for three blinks are at the higher end of the price/feature spectrum. It’s not an extra cost other than the software to control it.
Somewhat strangely, this is one of those simple features I find it hard to live without and am the most disappointed when a car doesn’t have it.

Also, on the transmission; How many gears did it have? I’ve noticed that very few manufacturers even try to dial in the new 8-10 gear autos. They all seem to have no idea what gear to select for a given scenario. Our Volvo had constant struggles knowing what gear to select and lurched half the time. How are these still a problem after all this time?

Nice review though!

Last edited 21 days ago by Ottomottopean
V10omous
V10omous
21 days ago
Reply to  Ottomottopean

This had a 9 speed auto.

My current Sienna with its 8 speed is the only auto I’ve ever owned with more than 6, and it shifts fine, but either I’m so used to its functioning that I don’t notice anymore, or Toyota did a better job programming it.

Drive By Commenter
Drive By Commenter
21 days ago
Reply to  Ottomottopean

My Cruze had that 13 years ago.

GreatFallsGreen
GreatFallsGreen
21 days ago
Reply to  Ottomottopean

I’m curious now, what vehicles have you found to not have it? I can’t think of any cars I’ve driven that were made/introduced in the last ~10 years that don’t have it. GM was rolling it out at the end of the 2000s, Ford shortly thereafter and amusingly even put out a press release announcing it. My 2015 Optima let you adjust between off/3/5 blinks and that was midlevel.

Ottomottopean
Ottomottopean
21 days ago

I know the Japanese brands only started including it a few years back. Maybe 5? I haven’t shopped for a new car since 2019 in all honesty.

But I distinctly remember in the ~2006-2010 timeframe it was almost exclusively a European car feature (well in my experience that really is only German makes and Jaguar as I’m not supremely experienced with many beyond that).

EXL500
EXL500
21 days ago
Reply to  Ottomottopean

My 2015 Fit has it.

Tartpop
Tartpop
21 days ago
Reply to  Ottomottopean

My sister’s 2015 CX5 has it as well.

GreatFallsGreen
GreatFallsGreen
20 days ago
Reply to  Ottomottopean

That tracks then, I can’t remember the first car I experienced with it but I know the Saturn Astra had it, being more Euro, which was the only “cheap” GM car with it until it trickled down from some of their larger models.

Kasey
Kasey
20 days ago
Reply to  Ottomottopean

Both the Chrysler products I’ve owned have had it, and they were from the 2009 and 2010 model year.

SarlaccRoadster
SarlaccRoadster
20 days ago

You can adjust the number of blinks on any VAG (VW, Porsche, Audi, SEAT) with OBDII (so starting a few decades ago).
I usually set mine to 4.

Last edited 20 days ago by SarlaccRoadster
GreatFallsGreen
GreatFallsGreen
20 days ago

A friend of mine had done just that on his old Mk6 Golf. We discussed how 4 seems to be the ideal number – 3 can be too quick, 5 seems to linger.

Taargus Taargus
Taargus Taargus
21 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

Nice quick review.

The NVH being so bad makes me wonder why Stellantis thinks getting butts into seats for test drives will solve their Hornet problems. But I guess I’ve seen more delusional behavior from companies that are far more competent, so maybe I shouldn’t be surprised.

I agree that the Hornet isn’t a bad looking CUV (I certainly think it’s better looking than most of its competitors). And I would imagine the 2.0T is a little more spirited than your typical base engine option? But Stellantis is going to need to do more if they think they’re going to get the public’s attention away from the RAV4s and CR-Vs of the world.

V10omous
V10omous
21 days ago

They seem to correctly understand that their only hope is competing on the “sporty” end of the spectrum rather than “reliable but boring daily driver”, but they went too far in some directions (exhaust note) and yet not far enough in others.

An easy example: why didn’t this have a 300 hp Pentastar available? That would be a unique selling point vs every other vehicle in the segment that would hardly cost them anything, and they didn’t do it.

Taargus Taargus
Taargus Taargus
21 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

I wonder if there was concern that the Pentastar would return some very 00’s gas mileage numbers. Even if in practice it ends up being similarly (in)efficient, had they been forced to put a mileage number that starts with a ‘1’ under city, they wouldn’t be able to sell half of what they’ve sold so far. But I suppose they could point people who care about efficiency to the PHEV.

I would tend to agree, a V6 in this segment would at least make the Hornet unique, and a bit more desirable. Also, if people aren’t super intent on trusting Chrysler, they’d be better off with the Pentastar over this 2.0T, I’d imagine.

Torque
Torque
21 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

“The seat shakes and the buzzing is incessant (maybe that’s why they call it the Hornet)”

Well Played

Drive By Commenter
Drive By Commenter
21 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

I’ll have to take a gander for $50 to see if it’s as bad as all that.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
21 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

I4 tend to have a rougher idle compared to 6+ cylinder engines. Are you accounting for that?

V10omous
V10omous
21 days ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

I’m sure that’s part of it, but I don’t remember other 4 cyl vehicles I’ve driven being this rough.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
21 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

The MZR engine in my Mazda sometimes has a rough idle only in drive. It happens when the idle speed drops about 100 rpm too low, otherwise it’s perfectly smooth and always smooths out when shifted into neutral. From by readings on Mazda forums this is not uncommon for the MZR engine. I managed to workaround the worst of it by swapping my stop lamps to LEDs but sometimes the idle still drops below the sweet spot, causing a shake.

I suspect the cause is a combination of ECU programming in which emissions demand the lowest tolerable idle speed and a poor electrical connection somewhere in the aging wiring that cannot be corrected by the ECU.

The shake here might be similar and may be as simple to fix as better ECU programming and/or more robust electrical connections. Unfortunately that’s probably going to take a class action and a recall campaign.

Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar
21 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

Arguably the $105k Wrangler is the epitome of Stellantis’ troubles.

Freelivin2713
Freelivin2713
19 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

The Autopian: “You’re hired!”

GFunk
GFunk
20 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

You are the only reason I’ve ever checked out the website of our local Stellantis dealer – no $100 test drives 🙁

HOWEVER, I did discover that they are offering an $82,000 (sale price!) 2024 Durango whose photos were taken when there was still snow on the ground – the last time that happened in Pittsburgh was mid-February.

V10omous
V10omous
20 days ago
Reply to  GFunk

I didn’t even mention the leftover 2023 Hellcat Durango at my dealer….a cool $95K after $15K discount.

GFunk
GFunk
20 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

At what point do they just set them on fire to claim an insurance payout?

Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar
20 days ago
Reply to  GFunk

Mine has their Hornet GT advertised for $10k off. So $34k down to $24k. Man, rough times out there for a Dodge dealer.

SarlaccRoadster
SarlaccRoadster
20 days ago
Reply to  Vic Vinegar

I find it really hard (read ‘impossible’) to sympathize with scum-of-the-earth dealers who lobbied bribed themselves into perpetuity as the scamming middleman for anyone wanting to buy a car.

Last edited 20 days ago by SarlaccRoadster
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