It’s sometimes hard to write about the Chinese car industry without highlighting comments that can sound a little Sinophobic. China has long since replaced Russia as the only comparable military and economic power in the world, but it’s also a major trading partner. Western automakers made billions of dollars selling cars in China and now, faced with the threat of Chinese automakers selling cars outside of China, are begging for tariffs and restrictions.
The Morning Dump is going to be a little more focused on this issue today, as Chinese President Xi Jinping is coming to Washington, D.C. soon and will potentially be bringing leaders from Chinese companies like BYD and Xioami, which are both essentially banned from selling cars in the US. The reasons for concern are real, of course, whether it’s about security, labor, or unfair pricing. Both former military leaders and current executives are expressing their desire to see Chinese automakers not sell cars here, even if President Trump seems open to the idea of Chinese car factories in America.
Congress may soon pass a bipartisan bill that heavily restricts which companies can sell in the US, though the automotive bill that passed first is actually about AM radio.
Xi Reportedly Might Bring BYD, CATL, And Xioami To The US
I’ve gone for a drive with BYD Chairman and founder Wang Chuanfu and found him to be a very personable and extremely intelligent guy. Chinese President Xi Jinping bringing him along on a trip to another country in order to represent the country’s manufacturing industry makes a lot of sense to me. I haven’t taken a drive with the heads of Xioami or CATL, though I assume they’re also pretty chill company.
However, I’m not sure that I’d bring them to the United States given all the concern, and proposed legislation, to keep Chinese companies out of the country. Reuters has multiple sources saying that Xi might be planning to do exactly that:
Washington and Beijing are finalising a group of Chinese business leaders to join President Xi Jinping’s upcoming visit to Washington, three sources familiar with the matter said, potentially including companies facing US regulatory scrutiny as they seek greater market access.
Final invitations will go out to companies in the coming days, the sources said. The State Department is expected to green-light US visas for the delegation, one of them added.
Leading Chinese electric vehicle manufacturer BYD, opens new tab, smartphone maker Xiaomi, which has also expanded into EVs, battery giants CATL, and Gotion, consumer electronics manufacturer Hisense, automotive parts supplier Wanxiang Group and state-owned Bank of China, and agriculture conglomerate COFCO Group are among companies under consideration, two of the sources and five other people briefed on the matter said.
President Trump has already said that he’s open to the idea of Chinese car companies building plants in the United States, which puts him at odds with most of his party. Americans are also not as interested in Chinese brands, though once they drive one their tune often changes.
When Trump went to Beijing he brought with him leaders of businesses that the Chinese government has issues with, so maybe this is just tit-for-tat. If that’s all this is, it’s completely reasonable in the course of diplomacy to have conversations, even with potential adversaries. Open dialogues are better than closed fists.
Whether you see it as a weakness or a strength, Trump has a flexibility when it comes to his positions, and has historically been persuadable. There is a growing concern that President Trump might be convinced that the jobs that Chinese automakers bring outweighs the risks. Leaders of car companies have been notably hesitant to critique the President, so it’ll be interesting to see their reactions to the White House embracing Chinese carmakers.
[Ed Note: Maybe we force a joint-venture system like China did to western automakers? -DT].
Generals: ‘There Cannot Be A Defense Industrial Base Without A Commercial Industrial Base’
A bipartisan group in the US Congress is close to getting through the Connected Vehicle Security Act, which would make it much harder for Chinese-owned companies or Chinese-built cars to be sold here.
SAFE is a nonpartisan group of former military and business leaders operating a lobbying group focused on “transportation, energy, and supply chain policies” in the United States. They’ve got a letter out in support of the bill, writing that “There cannot be a defense industrial base without a commercial industrial base.”
Modern vehicles are increasingly software defined, collecting large volumes of information through cameras, sensors, internet-connected components, and onboard software. Chinese companies are subject to PRC laws requiring cooperation with intelligence authorities, creating a risk that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) could gain access to geolocation histories, travel patterns, driver information, and information about surrounding critical infrastructure.
The legislation would also help preserve the commercial manufacturing capacity on which military readiness depends. U.S. industrial supply chains have been eroded for decades by state-backed Chinese competitors, undermining essential defense production capabilities. Domestic auto manufacturing creates critical domestic demand for steel, aluminum, batteries, semiconductors, and other advanced components—supply chains and capabilities the U.S. military cannot sustain alone
That’s the ex-military view, what about current business leaders?
Hyundai CEO Jose Munoz: Tariffs For Thee, But Not For Me
Talking to a Retuers reporter, Hyundai CEO Jose Munoz warned that not imposing trade barriers on Chinese companies was extremely risky:
Munoz said Chinese vehicles are 30 percent to 40 percent cheaper than rival models in some markets, including Italy, Spain and France. That’s despite trade barriers including tariffs or minimum pricing commitments that the European Union imposed on Chinese-built electric vehicles after concluding they benefited from unfair state subsidies.
Britain, which left the bloc in 2020, has not introduced similar tariffs. “The U.K., which in the past was a very profitable, very strong market, has become like China,” he said in San Jose, California. “All the top sellers are Chinese because there are no barriers.”
“So, I think we could expect similar things to happen in the U.S., at different levels, unless there are certain conditions,” he said, referring to measures such as the EU’s tariffs and other market-access requirements.
This is the other type of argument against Chinese automakers that’s fairly common, which is that they receive unfair state subsidies and therefore can charge unreasonably low prices and disrupt any markets they enter.
The House Of Representatives Passes A Bill To Save AM Radio
There’s been a move to discontinue AM radios in cars, which has drawn the ire of legislators. A bill passed on Tuesday would require all automakers to keep AM radio in their vehicles.
“Tens of millions of Americans tune into broadcast AM radio every day,” House Energy & Commence Committee Chairman Brett Guthrie said on the House floor, according to a press release. “Farmers use AM radio for weather forecasts, local information, and crop reports, while older Americans rely on it for local news and programming.
“AM radio is a critical tool for emergency communications. When a disaster hits and a broadband network goes dark, AM radio can continue providing critical emergency information to communities,” said Guthrie, a Kentucky representative.
If this passes the Senate and is signed into law, it would impact automakers like Tesla and Rivian, which don’t offer AM radio across all their vehicles.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
I think you could do worse than a dive on Vine, but “Hollywood” by Marina and the Diamonds is a bop.
The Big Question
What do you listen to in your car? Or are you like David and just listen to silence?
Top photo:
US Manufacturers sold approximately 2 million vehicles in China last year (1.4-1.5 million non-Tesla, and 600k+ Tesla) according to the quick and dirty google search I just did.
Why wouldn’t Xi just lead with – “Let us sell our vehicles in your market or tell your manufacturers to GTFO of ours”. I’m not particularly enamored of the Chinese but I also don’t see how or why it’s reasonable to have one and not the other. If Chinese cars are so subsidized, well, over 2 million Chinese people apparently ponied up for American branded and presumably non-subsidized cars last year of which presumably at least some profit flowed back to the US. Perhaps American buyers should have the same opportunity. How would/do the American manufacturers feel about their ball just being sent back home?
I wonder how much is status based on brand. Ie: you buy a Buick so everyone knows you can afford a Buick.
Like it is here?
Other than Tesla it has been a big difference for foreign automakers in China. They have had to work through joint ventures where their Chinese partner holds a majority stake in the company and commit to manufacturing there. China would be hitting it’s own people employed in these JVs if they just cut the US off.
Perhaps in theory and assuming western mores and legalities but if they sent the US companies packing the JVs (that ARE in fact Chinese automakers that also produce their own non-JV vehicles) could simply continue to build what they already were building, change the badge from Ford to Changan and GM to SAIC or whichever JV it is for a particular vehicle and sell them out of their own existing showrooms as another line. What’s to stop them? (Yes I am vastly oversimplifying but still…) Changan for example builds the Nautilus for Lincoln in a JV with Ford but is a very large automaker in its own right with its own lineup and is considered one of the larger and oldest Chinese automakers even if you remove the Ford stuff. Remove the 2 million cars that the JVs build for foreign makes and that doesn’t just mean there won’t be jobs for those workers, they will simply build other cars to satisfy existing demand.
Then again, China has so much volume they could probably do well without those 2 million cars. They already are having trouble offloading the existing output, hence the whole reason for looking abroad in the first place.
Historically, it’s because the wealthy Chinese want foreign cars, including American. I have no idea if that’s still the case. Also, western manufacturing has been considered superior, which is why a Chinese partner JV is required to operate in China. This technology transferer is what massively boosted their domestic automotive industry and helped them catch up.
The same JV partnership technology transfer system doesn’t really benefit the US for domestic production, except via immensely cheaper labor costs.
Since Americans are already driving Chinese built Buick Envisions, among the other Chinese manufactured cars, I’d argue we’re already near the limit of what’s beneficial for us.
Radio K, some of the best terrestrial radio in my opinion, I can pick it up on FM or AM. Once I am out of the twin cities I tend to stream Spotify because its hard to find decent radio programming.
Radio usually, jumping around the 18 FM presets, or AM if there is a game on or news. Sometimes a podcast, or I’ll pop in a CD if FM isn’t doing it for me.
TBQ: YouTube Music with the GF’s paid account so no commercials. Or the exhaust, depending on which car I’m driving.
“Trump has a flexibility when it comes to his positions,” – TACO or bribes, as applicable.
I have purchased precisely two brand new vehicles in my life, before I came upon the gospel of late-model used cars. Vehicle #1 was a 1989 Dodge Omni with zero options ($6000 OTD). Vehicle #2 was a 1995 Ford Ranger XL with 2 minor options ($9500 OTD).
Neither of them came with any radio whatsoever, just a big blank plate to remind me how little I spent. I could probably dig out a ton of statistics describing how much more popular AM radio was then than it is today. Yet the gubmint didn’t tell Dodge nor Ford that they must install a radio of any kind in these 2 vehicles.
My 1995 Wrangler came without a radio as well. Why opt for the Jeep radio when you can get a Sony Explode (or whatever corn ball name it had)?
This reminds me of so many other things in our lives that somehow became necessities. Like, if I leave my phone at home I think I’m a pioneer on the Oregon Trail, even though the majority of my adult life I didn’t have one.
Mornings going to work I listen to one of the 2 local rock stations, though they’re typically talking to one another. Tends to be funny though!
Otherwise, it’s generally whatever I like that comes up on Spotify, & I mean anything. Sometimes Lil Wayne, sometimes Lincoln Park, Hiroshima, Tim McGraw, Glass Animals…… and way too many more then I should reasonably try to name. Whatever floats my boat when it appears!
Meanwhile, we’re moving from the US to Germany next year, and will be shopping for a BYD Sealion7. Can’t wait.
America is spiraling and in decline.
How’s Germany doin’?
Well enough that our Lewis got hired there.
3.6. Not great, not terrible.
Ford: We need aluminum from Canada
WH: No, we have aluminum at home.
US Military: We need aluminum from Canada
WH: Oh, yeah, you’re right, we don’t make enough here.
Ford: we are partnering with Chinese companies for making competitive products in the US
WH: No, we have competitive products at home.
BYD: We want to bring our EV cars to the US
WH: Oh, yeah, you’re right, we don’t make anything that competes with this.
I’m starting to believe that Jim Farley is better/smarter than I gave Ford credit.
The lack of AM radio seems silly when most DOTs use it for in climate weather/mountain pass information in the backcountry.
That and the other examples of AM use constitute what? 0.002% of the people who buy these cars? I think the push to save AM is to keep it out of the hands of cellular companies that want the bandwidth. The government needs time to figure out how to make more money off the companies before they sell AM space to them.
AM radio is a hub for talk radio, especially right wing radio.
This kind of bill passes because both sides of the aisle have big incentives to keep it around. Democrats get to claim science and safety, Republicans get to claim they are fighting the culture wars not allowing “them” to turn off their voice.
You know, I thought “that can’t be right, people are still tuning in to scratchy-ass right wing AM talkers?” but I looked at a list and yeah, there’s an astonishing list of the planet’s most horrible humans commanding multi-million listenerships.
Of course NPR’s got the biggest and most devoted program listeners, aside from that financial charlatan D@ve Rams3y, who’s apparently at the very tippy-top of those dependent on clueless suckers to tune in. Blech.
AM radio is massively easier to setup and transmit in a serious emergency, such as a domestic war or national disaster. There’s a large amount of very well hardened infrastructure in place specifically for this purpose. It is also very easy to build a basic AM receiver.
If BYD renames a US division of thier company to “Trump Automotive,” there’s a pretty good chance they get let in with a government subsidy thrown in. : /
Add the word “gold”, or “golden” to it, and you’ve got a deal.
The new Trump Golden Shower
One of many we’ve already experienced.
A $10 per unit sold donation to the presidential library will seal the deal.
“Americans are also not as interested in Chinese brands, though once they drive one their tune often changes.”
So let the Chinese in but only to manufacture the cars American companies have convinced themselves Americans don’t want and refuse to buy. Then in a few years after the cheap and cheerful Chinese cars have poisoned dealership lots across America the Chinese will leave and the American companies can buy the abandoned factories for a song to crank out the massive trucks and SUVs that they want to sell.
“There is a growing concern that President Trump might be convinced that the jobs that Chinese automakers bring outweighs the risks.”
That and China can start restocking their strategic oil reserve en masse tomorrow and legitimately pass all the fallout for skyrocketing prices onto Trump.
“OK, but you’re only allowed to make compact pickups, wagons, convertibles, and 3-door hatchbacks.”
Also sedans, DIY friendly farm equipment, EREV RVs, natural gas powered heavy trucks, and whatever appeared in Toecutter’s latest fever dream.
Podcasts and audiobooks if I’m alone. FM Radio if someone else is in the car.
If China wants Trump to say they can sell cars here, all they have to do is just bribe him with either golden trinkets or buy his shitcoins, it’s really that easy.
Now for listening to the radio in a car? God I hate listening to the actual radio stations anymore. They’re all seemingly owned by I Heart Radio, the 2 local stations that play anything close to what I want to listen to just play the same crap over and over and then there are commercial breaks longer than the actual songs. So if I’m listening to music, it’s spotify without commercials (my significant other pays for it, so..) or music on my phone, before it was music on my iPod or my phone. The only time I’ll actively put on the radio is to listen to the Reds broadcast on 700 WLWT, which is AM
The Mountain Goats. Dogstar lately, but mostly because I wanted to hear them before they are here Saturday. 90s alternative. I like ska, but I feel like it encourages speeding. I’ve been trying to stick with mostly calmer music when driving. Sometimes no music, especially if I’m driving somewhere unfamiliar.
Not sure why you chose an image of an FM radio for the AM radio article 😉
If I’m driving short distances I listen to FM radio. Long distances I’ll either play Pandora or podcasts, but it’s pretty rare I have long trips like that.
Good catch. They could have at least photoshopped “950” on the LED display or something over that 87.9
Like David, I generally prefer silence. I like to be aware of my surroundings. But on occassion, I’ll play some Black Metal, Death Metal, Goth, or Darksynth.
Ferrari: Listen to engine & well-wishers
Honda: KEXP
I miss KEXP (apparently the comments don’t support emojis)
No reason to miss KEXP, their streaming app is awesome and they have a very large library of prior shows. I live in the midwest and stream KEXP frequently. Early show with Eva Walker is so good.Morning show is also excellent.
In my TR6, I listen to the engine and exhaust note when the top is down, and to my own music on a flash drive through an aftermarket radio. In my pickup, which has a lousy radio, I listen to the same old classic rock songs that I’ve heard for 50 or 60 years…
“Talking to a Retuers reporter, Hyundai CEO Jose Munoz warned that not imposing trade barriers on Chinese companies was extremely risky”
Korean chaebols complaining about Chinese state support is like Nazi Germany complaining about American Civil Rights movements.
Detroit already rolled out the red carpet to Chinese automakers by not competing in the first place. They rely mostly on protectionism and bailouts. GM had NUMMI, where Toyota taught them everything, but they learned NOTHING. The CEO of Ford literally has Toyota on his resume.
All 3 of them should’ve gone POOF decades ago.
TBQ: NPR’s more lighthearted podcasts and the local station, (WCBU) mostly. I used to drive without radio but the damn FR-S just drooooones at speed…
I do wish HD radio was also more of a thing in cars these days. Subchannels are fun!
Its going to happen eventually. And GM, Ford and whatever Chrysler is these days aren’t doing themselves any favors by insisting that their entire futures should remain reliant on small penis compensating trucks that run on fossil fuels. Right when ole’ orange dipshit in chief keeps it up in the middle east and when the overall economy on the verge of collapse. At some point GM and Ford will probably go bankrupt. And given how the current ” President” seems hellbent on reaming every single American , sure- he will allow the sale of the remains to BYD or who knows.
That’s an equal opportunity ream there fella, and make it a double double on the grift for friends and family.
Uh, I don’t think President Xi is going anywhere any time soon…
Car customers:
“Can we get actual mechanical door handles and buttons, and 40 mpg”
Gov.:
“Best we can do it right wing talk radio”
Meanwhile, China legislates mechanical door handles and has a lot of super efficient cars.
As one of the Chinese Engineers at my work told me:
“Chinese technology? Very good! Human rights? ehh, so-so”
Winning combination for the American consumer…
There’s a lot of “winning” in the US these days, I’m just not sure any of it is for the consumer.
“Literally” “winning”.
Words have no meaning anymore. 🙁
Allowing Chinese cars in the US while banning so many other Chinese products/companies doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.
If you’re looking for common sense in US economic policy I have some sad news for you…
Lol, oh trust me, I know. I’ve been angry about it since his first term.
It’s 3-, 4-, and even 5-D chess. You’ll see…
/s
Almost all consumer products sold in North America are made in China.
Not sure what they are banning, but the ban seems to be remarkably ineffective.
I will agree though that nothing that pedophile does makes any sense.
Yeah, I guess I needed to be a little more pointed with my criticism based on the responses I’ve been getting. I don’t normally keep things so PG, but I wasn’t sure how the Autopian crowd would feel about my true feelings haha.
Nothing he does makes sense unless you’ve chugged so much orange kool aid that you’ve completely fallen for the propaganda.