It’s sometimes hard to write about the Chinese car industry without highlighting comments that can sound a little Sinophobic. China has long since replaced Russia as the only comparable military and economic power in the world, but it’s also a major trading partner. Western automakers made billions of dollars selling cars in China and now, faced with the threat of Chinese automakers selling cars outside of China, are begging for tariffs and restrictions.
The Morning Dump is going to be a little more focused on this issue today, as Chinese President Xi Jinping is coming to Washington, D.C. soon and will potentially be bringing leaders from Chinese companies like BYD and Xioami, which are both essentially banned from selling cars in the US. The reasons for concern are real, of course, whether it’s about security, labor, or unfair pricing. Both former military leaders and current executives are expressing their desire to see Chinese automakers not sell cars here, even if President Trump seems open to the idea of Chinese car factories in America.
Congress may soon pass a bipartisan bill that heavily restricts which companies can sell in the US, though the automotive bill that passed first is actually about AM radio.
Xi Reportedly Might Bring BYD, CATL, And Xioami To The US
I’ve gone for a drive with BYD Chairman and founder Wang Chuanfu and found him to be a very personable and extremely intelligent guy. Chinese President Xi Jinping bringing him along on a trip to another country in order to represent the country’s manufacturing industry makes a lot of sense to me. I haven’t taken a drive with the heads of Xioami or CATL, though I assume they’re also pretty chill company.
However, I’m not sure that I’d bring them to the United States given all the concern, and proposed legislation, to keep Chinese companies out of the country. Reuters has multiple sources saying that Xi might be planning to do exactly that:
Washington and Beijing are finalising a group of Chinese business leaders to join President Xi Jinping’s upcoming visit to Washington, three sources familiar with the matter said, potentially including companies facing US regulatory scrutiny as they seek greater market access.
Final invitations will go out to companies in the coming days, the sources said. The State Department is expected to green-light US visas for the delegation, one of them added.
Leading Chinese electric vehicle manufacturer BYD, opens new tab, smartphone maker Xiaomi, which has also expanded into EVs, battery giants CATL, and Gotion, consumer electronics manufacturer Hisense, automotive parts supplier Wanxiang Group and state-owned Bank of China, and agriculture conglomerate COFCO Group are among companies under consideration, two of the sources and five other people briefed on the matter said.
President Trump has already said that he’s open to the idea of Chinese car companies building plants in the United States, which puts him at odds with most of his party. Americans are also not as interested in Chinese brands, though once they drive one their tune often changes.
When Trump went to Beijing he brought with him leaders of businesses that the Chinese government has issues with, so maybe this is just tit-for-tat. If that’s all this is, it’s completely reasonable in the course of diplomacy to have conversations, even with potential adversaries. Open dialogues are better than closed fists.
Whether you see it as a weakness or a strength, Trump has a flexibility when it comes to his positions, and has historically been persuadable. There is a growing concern that President Trump might be convinced that the jobs that Chinese automakers bring outweighs the risks. Leaders of car companies have been notably hesitant to critique the President, so it’ll be interesting to see their reactions to the White House embracing Chinese carmakers.
[Ed Note: Maybe we force a joint-venture system like China did to western automakers? -DT].
Generals: ‘There Cannot Be A Defense Industrial Base Without A Commercial Industrial Base’
A bipartisan group in the US Congress is close to getting through the Connected Vehicle Security Act, which would make it much harder for Chinese-owned companies or Chinese-built cars to be sold here.
SAFE is a nonpartisan group of former military and business leaders operating a lobbying group focused on “transportation, energy, and supply chain policies” in the United States. They’ve got a letter out in support of the bill, writing that “There cannot be a defense industrial base without a commercial industrial base.”
Modern vehicles are increasingly software defined, collecting large volumes of information through cameras, sensors, internet-connected components, and onboard software. Chinese companies are subject to PRC laws requiring cooperation with intelligence authorities, creating a risk that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) could gain access to geolocation histories, travel patterns, driver information, and information about surrounding critical infrastructure.
The legislation would also help preserve the commercial manufacturing capacity on which military readiness depends. U.S. industrial supply chains have been eroded for decades by state-backed Chinese competitors, undermining essential defense production capabilities. Domestic auto manufacturing creates critical domestic demand for steel, aluminum, batteries, semiconductors, and other advanced components—supply chains and capabilities the U.S. military cannot sustain alone
That’s the ex-military view, what about current business leaders?
Hyundai CEO Jose Munoz: Tariffs For Thee, But Not For Me
Talking to a Retuers reporter, Hyundai CEO Jose Munoz warned that not imposing trade barriers on Chinese companies was extremely risky:
Munoz said Chinese vehicles are 30 percent to 40 percent cheaper than rival models in some markets, including Italy, Spain and France. That’s despite trade barriers including tariffs or minimum pricing commitments that the European Union imposed on Chinese-built electric vehicles after concluding they benefited from unfair state subsidies.
Britain, which left the bloc in 2020, has not introduced similar tariffs. “The U.K., which in the past was a very profitable, very strong market, has become like China,” he said in San Jose, California. “All the top sellers are Chinese because there are no barriers.”
“So, I think we could expect similar things to happen in the U.S., at different levels, unless there are certain conditions,” he said, referring to measures such as the EU’s tariffs and other market-access requirements.
This is the other type of argument against Chinese automakers that’s fairly common, which is that they receive unfair state subsidies and therefore can charge unreasonably low prices and disrupt any markets they enter.
The House Of Representatives Passes A Bill To Save AM Radio
There’s been a move to discontinue AM radios in cars, which has drawn the ire of legislators. A bill passed on Tuesday would require all automakers to keep AM radio in their vehicles.
“Tens of millions of Americans tune into broadcast AM radio every day,” House Energy & Commence Committee Chairman Brett Guthrie said on the House floor, according to a press release. “Farmers use AM radio for weather forecasts, local information, and crop reports, while older Americans rely on it for local news and programming.
“AM radio is a critical tool for emergency communications. When a disaster hits and a broadband network goes dark, AM radio can continue providing critical emergency information to communities,” said Guthrie, a Kentucky representative.
If this passes the Senate and is signed into law, it would impact automakers like Tesla and Rivian, which don’t offer AM radio across all their vehicles.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
I think you could do worse than a dive on Vine, but “Hollywood” by Marina and the Diamonds is a bop.
The Big Question
What do you listen to in your car? Or are you like David and just listen to silence?
Top photo:
TBQ: I have an iPod that’s still capable of holding my entire music collection plus some podcasts; since I have a long (45 minutes one way) commute and I like road trips, I also have SiriusXM. The ’97 Jeep has a CD player that I never use, along with an SD card that’s basically a backup of my music collection. I’m very close to installing a new stereo in Mom’s Jeep, since the CD player no longer works and terrestrial radio options aren’t that great around here.
I’m road-tripping up from LA to the SF Bay tomorrow, and I have a couple playlists and a few episodes of the Tran Girlismo podcast all ready to go.
Just streamlined my setup so now I can use my phone to play audio *and* charge it at the same time. Pretty exciting time for ya boi.
What do you listen to in your car?
This is really distance and mood dependent. Long drive, maybe an audiobook. Forty minutes? Podcast. Otherwise music. Recently came across the Radio France App and listen to FIP it is super eclectic and I get to hear new stuff all the time.
TBQ: I listen to Spotify or podcasts through my phone 99% of the time. My car doesn’t support Android Auto, so it’s just old fashioned Bluetooth.
I think David listenes to the voices in his head while driving. The silence is deafening.
I figured he listened to exhaust noise, gear whine, and rattles.
A wheel bearing, the whine from the gearbox between 72 and 80, the new rattle from a piece of trim, a clunk from a worn suspension bush. Also the greatest hits of the Flying Burrito Brothers, which is the only CD I have in the car at the moment.
You describe the soundtrack of my ’89 240 wagon on the freeway perfectly! 😉
TBQ:
I’m not an excitable lead-footed youth anymore, so really I’ve got 3 options:
Man, I wish we would worry about competing with China in Solar and High Speed rail and not AI and cars.
Add drones to that list lol
Was expecting to hear that Canada has already beaten the USA to the punch – don’t our good neighbors to the north already have the ability to purchase Chinese cars?
“The Big Question:
What do you listen to in your car? Or are you like David and just listen to silence?”
I have two iPod Classics. In my GMC daily driver pickup I keep the 160GB version which has over 30,000 songs on it connected to the Kenwood head unit. I usually have a playlist with around 2,100 of my favorite songs playing in the truck, but there are also other songs and albums I like. I used to partake in ‘Full Album Fridays’ where you have to listen to music one album at a time, so sometimes I’ll do just that.
My other iPod is only a 60GB so I can’t sync all my songs onto it. On that one, I have about a dozen different playlists including that one with 2,100 favorites. The smaller iPod usually stays in the house for when I’m walking on the treadmill or doing indoor projects, but I do bring it along in my El Camino when I take it to car shows.
In our 2024 Trax LS, we have to have playlists on multiple USB flash drives since it will not recognize the iPods as music sources. It also will not let you switch between playlists on a single drive while in motion hence the multiple drives.
We also keep a USB drive in the wife’s 2015 Cruze. I rarely drive the 2003 Envoy, but the CD player still works in that, as well as the AM/FM radio part. The iPod won’t work in the Envoy without an FM adapter. It will work in the Cruze, but with over 30,000 songs the Cruze infotainment system spends way too much time ‘indexing’ every time you start it up to make it worthwhile. USB drives index faster.
The MG? The JVC AM/FM/cassette player comes on every time we start it, but sound only comes out of the speakers maybe one in ten times we take it out. Kind of like the turn signals and reverse lights – they work when they feel like working. But that’s life with an MG.
TBQ:
Depends on where I’m going, what I’m doing, and what I’m driving.
The Mini has a 2004 Kenwood deck in it, so it’s FM radio or mix CDs (I found my old spindle of blanks)
But often I’ll either do podcasts or entire albums on road trips. Night time is usually full album time for me.
On my commute to work? By the time I pick what I want to listen to, I’d be halfway there. So I often just let the local independent Alternative radio station hook me up.
Does your 2004 Kenwood head unit play MP3s? They can fit a crap-ton more songs and are less prone to skipping.
Our 2003 Envoy CD player won’t play MP3 discs, but the one that came with the 2005s would.
Some 2004 Kenwood head units (the ones with MP in the model number) would play MP3 files.
It plays MP3s just fine (and I always burn my discs slow for better success rates in players), but it skips like a teen in their senior year.
It also randomly just won’t turn on until you pull the fuse to hard reset it. It’s on the chopping block to get replaced this winter. Same with the worn out speakers.
I don’t need crazy stereo, but this thing has an open top, so I wanna be able to hear it at highway speeds.
I’m on a Mexican whoa oah radio…
I still listen to some FM locally, have most of my CD’s burned onto an old Android phone I can plug in using USB or headphone jack. Never really got into streaming.
I have my music collection on a Plex server at home that I stream to my car via my phone and Android Auto.
What do you listen to in your car?
The same as everyone else, I assume: “One eight seven seven, kars for kids…. K-A-R-S kars for kids… Donate your kar today, bum bum bum (repeat)”
“Chinese companies are subject to PRC laws requiring cooperation with intelligence authorities, creating a risk that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) could gain access to geolocation histories, travel patterns, driver information, and information about surrounding critical infrastructure.”
Boy, I would hate for the reverse to be true – imagine if US companies that sold cars in China also collected massive amounts of data that they’re required to share with US intelligence agencies should they decide to compel it! It’s a good thing we’ve got a great record of treating the rest of the world fairly and not using anything and everything we can get our hands on to reinforce our economic/military hegemony.
What if instead of banning Chinese cars, we instead banned the ability for any company to collect massive amounts of data on anyone and their cars, regardless of origin? Then, there would be no data to steal! In the meantime, I have a hard time believing that China couldn’t just hack GM’s (or Fords, or…) systems to get that data if it was a military need anyways. Not like our automakers have done a particularly good job safeguarding our data historically. And it’s not like US automakers aren’t willing to give that data to people, like my local police, who will actually use that data to harm innocent folks (cough cough recent Flock article cough).
Sinophobia, indeed – acting like China poses a unique and personal threat to every individual in the US, all out of fears that they might do to us what we’ve historically done to the rest of the world. Odd, though, that they don’t appear to be doing that? I’ve yet to see the Chinese military expanding to hundreds of bases beyond its borders all for the purpose of exerting economic control over key resources. It’s almost as if…they’re not uniquely evil, and “they” are actually a wildly diverse country of over a billion people who are pretty objectively doing a better job of caring for most of their citizens than we are. (I say this after I spent the morning browsing for a cheap Chevy Express van to be able to better supply food and basic goods to our unhoused neighbors.)
Maybe I’m just salty because my friends can’t find healthcare, my rent is continuing to climb, and the local police keep taking funding from youth mental health care, but… I have a hard time worrying about what the Chinese state is going to do to me with my data, and a lot easier time worrying about people misrepresenting the interest of the US business/military alliance as if it were the same as mine and my neighbors. I, in fact, would like our market to be disrupted – maybe having access to cheap Chinese vehicles might remind us that life doesn’t always have to be just constantly being milked for the most expensive, most enshittified product by US companies.
I don’t know, man, I’m just ranting now…but fuck me, it’s hard to take the racism seriously when I’m looking around at all the harm we’re doing to ourselves right now.
There’s a reason China can produce a car for 30%+ less.
That said, I agree with your points that the US’ prosperity and hegemony didn’t just happen. Nor have we had much interest in thinking about, let alone cleaning up, the messes we’ve left behind.
“There’s a reason China can produce a car for 30%+ less.”
Yes.
High use of robotics and a low cost of living – due to centralized healthcare, a robust pension system, robust transit systems, a reasonable system of taxation, a lack of an expectation for *everyone* to be able to have a single-family house, and a lack of spending on forever wars.
…And reliance on forced labor.
I don’t agree with that as much as many people would like it to be true. Or are we saying that the 1.9 vehicles that red white and blue GM produced IN China last year with their joint ventures (all of which are companies that also produce vehicles WITHOUT GM were using forced labor? Tesla too?
Is there SOME forced labor in parts of the Chinese auto industry? Probably. There’s probably some forced labor in all of the Chinese replacement parts we buy at AutoZone or even at our favorite brand auto dealer. How forced does one consider the labor of a union employee in Kentucky USA who goes to work on the line in order to keep the healthcare benefits for themselves and their family, and make the mortgage payment, and pay for their kids school and child care, and food and gas that keeps going up, otherwise there is NO way they are finding an equivalently paying job at age 50 or whatever. And there really isn’t much left over to save for retirement when all of those expenses don’t just stop – except for the payouts from “socialism” that is Medicare and Social Security. Yes I’m being more than a little facetious but I simply do not believe that there is a chain gang of workers that arrive in a white bus at the gates of every BYD assembly plant every morning and work twelve hours a day for half a bowl of cold soup and a slice of bread. If nothing else, for years we heard that the actual “labor” component of a vehicle being built in the US is no more than 15% of the total cost and probably closer to 10%. Get rid of that by using forced labor for zero compensation and you’re still not saving 30%.
At the end of last year I visited Ningbo China for work and toured many factories making commodity hardware products; not for automotive but lower tier stuff. Based on what I know from visiting and anecdotally about Chinese manufacturing I have a very hard time believing forced labor is a widespread issue with Chinese manufacturing. The factories I visited varied from pretty sophisticated outfits similar to some US facitities to glorified shacks making just about the cheapest stuff you can buy in the world. The workers I saw in these places were working in conditions that were definitely sub-par to what is expected in the US, and in some cases with dubious safety, but I was never appalled by what I saw, and I expect it mirrored what you would have seen in US manufacturing 40-50 years ago. I don’t buy the “forced labor” argument for keeping Chinese cars out, and to your point if forced labor is the line in the sand, then we should not be buying tons of other crap that US consumers currently buy from China and other low cost countries.
That is my impression. I too have visited China (some 15 years ago now) and frankly was blown away by how modern parts of the country were. Not just hordes of bicycle riders as I was taught in school 30 years prior… Sure, still developing in many areas, but world class competitive in many others. Manufacturing and employment opportunities are what has created a middle class in China and enabled a maturation beyond a purely agrarian society, similar to what happened here some 150 years ago but at a far faster pace. It is a nation in its ascendancy, is driven, and looks far beyond the current quarter, year, decade, or even century.
I believe many of the people parroting whatever “talking points” are commonly brought up have certainly never been to China themselves, and likely have never left this continent, if not country (perhaps state?). It’s not hard to tell the xenophobes. That doesn’t mean everything is complete sweetness and light, but the same can be said of what’s going on here, not just politically but also as far as common labor practices go, especially in regard to food production etc.
Detroit has good reason to be afraid (maybe stop importing your own Chinese-built vehicles, until then STFU), but at the end of the day Americans want (well, okay, let’s be real, NEED) cars to survive daily life in the US of A and while it’d be nice for it to be Chevys and Fords it really doesn’t make an iota of difference to me if the Jeep, Lincoln, and Buick brands are eventually owned by the Chinese and manufactured here employing mostly the same amount of workers as are currently employed. Or frankly if those brands are supplanted by others with a different alphabet soup name. Toyota builds many cars here, as dooes Honda, Kia, Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes, VW. The net amount of vehicles built here to be sold here will likely not change, if Ford goes away and BYD starts to build a B-150 instead in suburban Detroit it’s all the same to me. I don’t give a crap if one auto CEO living in Grosse Points gets his golden parachute and isn’t replaced by ONE singular new inidividual in that same town. The need (and demand) to build the products will survive any particular current executive suite.
I’m more appalled that Lucid with its Saudi ownership is allowed to build and sell cars here, the Chinese haven’t killed 3000+ Americans yet. Let’s talk about human rights over there… But hey, freedom isn’t free and all that and they do sponsor golf.
I work in sourcing across various industries (although not automotive) and have been to China probably 100+ times over the years and to even more factories; from Shenzhen to Ningbo to Shenyang. Some are extremely sophisticated and modern, most are glorified warehouses in OK/decent condition, and a handful are what people picture when thinking of an old school Chinese factory. I’ve seen some shady things, the most probably being when I watched a 13ish year old welding up in the rafters, and/or a glass factory with 50 workers running around bumping into people while holding molten glass on a stick. That said, every worker seems genuinely well respected and taken care of. They all act like one big family; they live in the dorms together, work together, cook together, drink together… The only conditions I may still questions are the workers mining for batteries…
You should be requiring a Social Audit Annually at any supplier you work with.
SA8000, BSCI, SMETA, . . . ect
Also, it’s important to understand Labor Law as well as Work Safety in the country you are sourcing from.
If the supplier is constantly not following their national laws, and refuses to do a social audit, they have clearly communicated to you their commitment toward your business.
I only work with ISO certified factories, as do most
Every domestic auto sale qualifies the company to take out a long term below market rate loan from a state controlled bank. This is how the companies are able to maintain a positive cash flow while selling for a loss, by making it the government’s problem.
While I agree with your points here, there is one misconception. Despite being labelled as a communist country, it most definitely is not. For instance, they do not have universal healthcare. There are all sort of limits on how people can access healthcare and for many, they can’t. You have to be in your own home province. If you are a migrant, the options are very limited. Also, they really don’t have a redistribution of wealth, just a command economy, which by the way the US very much also has.
I don’t say this to slam China. I have a great deal of respect for them, with the exception of their total lack of human rights and top down authoritarian rule.
I mostly listen to podcasts and audio books, but I only ever use my car for longer trips. I still have my visor CD collection for when the need arises.
I don’t understand how any of the Chinese car companies wanting to sell in the US is any different that when Japan did it. Just import and sell the cars as a Ford or GM or what ever then let them set up manufacturing here if its worth it. All this is just so weak and pathetic to watch. If US companies, I guess now just Ford and GM, are so great, then build competition. They won’t because what they want to sell and what more people want to buy are different things, but if China can sell me a smaller hybrid or EV that won’t cost more than my yearly salary new, well so be it. I’ve ridden Chinese bikes, Chinese scooters, worn Chinese clothes, have a Chinese phone and TV and Computer and everything else it seems buy my boots and truck. It has been this way for most of my life. It’s this way because of the US government allowing it since Regan, so if suddenly people don’t like it, then step up the game and make better stuff and pay people better to buy your stuff rather than paying it all to international investors and CEO’s that only care that stock goes up over everything else in the company.
Radio, what’s new?
Radio, someone still loves you.
I have a USB drive with all my ancient 80’s and 90’s music and set it to random.
I do the same. Had SiriusXM for a while and realized they rotate maybe 30-50 songs per station. Better than terrestrial FM, but boring after a while. On USB, DJ Random has his preferences (some days, he seems really into Australian bands), but it’s more fun to see what turns up. And I can skip!
“Tens of millions of Americans tune into broadcast AM radio every day”‽ This can’t be true. Tens of thousands, maybe.
Americans will be wary of purchasing a “Xiaomi” or a “Yangwang”.
But badge them as a “Sterling”, “Van Halen” or somesuch – and watch the money flow….
I stream Apple Music and have either Apple or Google Maps running when I drive.
Nothing too upbeat – I need calm when I’m in the car.
I doubt it. They have no problem with a “Rivian”, and “Hyundai” and “KIA” did/do just fine. Kawasaki, Honda, and Toyota weren’t common words/names/brands at one time either. Samsung would do just fine as well. Then again Geely, Chery, and Link&Co. seem almost American. BYD isn’t a problem name either, at least it doesn’t sound French like Chevrolet…
Xiaomi just needs to start a direct mail campaign to every Ford owner quoting Jim Farley gushing over the Xiaomi he drove around Detroit for six months and publicly stated he didn’t want to give back, it was so good and how much he enjoyed it. People will at least check it out.
From what I recall, it took a while for Japanese brands to gain legitimacy in the US. And Kia was the car you drove if you couldn’t afford anything else.
I agree that based on quality and value, they’ll do just fine. But it might take a while. And plenty of interest groups will fight like hell to call them un-American
Where I grew up on the west coast in the 1980s, a Chevy was the car you drove if you couldn’t afford anything else 🙂 (and I now own one…) . Hyundai sold 160,000 cars their first year, 260,000 their second year in only a few west coast states and believe me, NObody could agree on how to pronounce the name. Kia took much longer mainly due to phasing in one state at a time rather than large regions, now look at them. By the mid-1980s people were paying well over sticker for Hondas as they were literally being unloaded off the delivery truck. Wild times.
Yeah, the uptake for Datsun, Toyota, Mazda, Kawasaki, Hyundai, Kia and others to become mainstream brands took decades.
The first ads for Hyundai USA in the 80’s had to teach people how to pronounce the name. Isuzu ads in the same timeframe also poked fun at how people often mispronounced the brand name.
BTW – Mazda isn’t even pronounced “Maaz-da” in Japan. It’s pronounced “Matsuda”
Yangwang is obviously dead on arrival, lol.
If China wants sell cars here (and build them here) let them wade in the kiddie pool first: low end economy models and small trucks that American companies don’t build and don’t think anybody wants. Just like the Japanese once did. The criteria for allowing a foreign national to work here is that they possess a skill or knowledge not readily found in a similarly qualified American citizen. Of course, this gets bent all of the time, but the rule is still there. If we apply it to cars, then a foreign company should have to fill a niche not currently addressed by US companies and currently that’s affordable, economical, small starter cars. If the Chinese can make a go in that category, more power to them. If not, so be it. I suspect they can, especially because we’re headed into worse economic realities.
However, should this happen on Trump’s watch, it will only be because the Chinese make a huge, backroom deal that only profits Trump himself, because that’s his lone motivator.
Occasionally I will listen to a baseball game, otherwise it’s the beautiful clatter of a Cummins engine.
I listen to old Opie and Anthony shows on YouTube anymore. Makes my 45 minute funny and no commercials.
What do you listen to in your car?
A decent sized chunk of my personal musical collection resides on my phone–somewhere between 12,000 and 13,000 songs–so Carplay and shuffle is my go to, though sometimes I will use Spotify if I am looking for something new, or want to listen to a specific album not in my collection. I do miss having a CD player in the car though.
TBQ: What do you listen to in your car? Or are you like David and just listen to silence?
I find it hard to believe that any of David’s cars are silent (except maybe for the i3).
Me? I’m a music guy. Preferably 1990’s Alternative Rock and Grunge, sometimes with more modern Alternative or Classic Rock. If I’m feeling particularly saucy; some Blues.
If BYD buys enough of World Liberty Financial crypto they are will be green lighted.
Oh, that’s the quid pro quo that I hadn’t thought of. I was thinking more along the lines of the headline “Chinese Cars Approved in US” coinciding with “Trump Resort to be Built in Beijing”.
I have an old car. While I don’t have the radio turned on when I drive, I’m definitely not listening to silence. What I hear is the sound of my wallet draining with each new squeak, rattle, and thunk as I pass over every expansion joint on the road.