There’s a report out today that attempts to answer some questions about how Jaguar Land Rover and Stellantis are going to suddenly make cars in the United States together. In theory, Jeep and Land Rover overlap. In practice, they really don’t.
This morning has been dominated by pickup truck news, and The Morning Dump will add to that pile with details about the JLR-Stellantis tie-up and how it includes a truck. It’s been like 50 years since the United States got a legit new Land Rover truck, so this is fun news. If you love plug-in hybrids, it sounds like Volvo is going to give us the plug-in hybrids that we’ve long desired.
While Land Rover expands to the US for production, BYD is planning to build big trucks of its own in Europe. The expansion of China into Europe makes sense, though the building of Chinese cars over here has been the cause of a lot of debate. Would Americans even embrace a Chinese-designed car? If it’s the right car.
If Land Rover Is Going To Build A Truck In The US, Will The Grand Wagoneer Go Unibody?
Stellantis and JLR announced earlier this year that the two companies would do something, at some point, in the United States. While it was vague, the conversation was around the Defender brand, which is key to Land Rover’s future. I am extremely in the bag for every variant of the Defender, so this news is catnip to me.
One of my favorite quotes from the time was from Stellantis CEO Antonio Filosa, who bragged about how “the new trade condition” makes the company’s “installed capacity very attractive to many other competitors or potential partners.” In plain English: tariffs are making it so that companies need to build in the United States, and Stellantis has more capacity than it can really use given its middling sales prospects.
Back in May, I speculated that this could be some kind of American Defender built in Jeep’s Warren, Michigan facility, which currently builds the unloved Grand Wagoneer. Via Britain’s The Times, of all places, comes more info:
Jaguar Land Rover is to enter the $80 billion American pick-up truck market for the first time with a US version of its bestselling Defender model.
The UK’s biggest carmaker is expected to unveil the plans in the coming months as boss PB Balaji begins a fightback after cutting 4,000 jobs.
In a major strategic pivot for the quintessentially British brand, the Defender pick-up will be built in America through a new joint venture with Chrysler carmaker Stellantis.
Given the Chicken Tax of it all, that Land Rover would build a truck variant makes a lot of sense. The current Defender is assembled in Slovakia, which means it’ll fall under the EU’s tariff deal, whatever that happens to be at any given point. The image above is of the Heritage Customs Land Rover Defender, and while I don’t think the new truck will look exactly like this if it gets built, I do imagine a Defender truck has to be four doors.
This leads to two questions, which will answer the question in the headline.
- What engine will it have?
- What does Jeep get out of it?
The US Defender has used a mix of engines, but the big V8s have either been the old supercharged JLR engine or the newer BMW mill used in the X7. Importing an engine cuts against the tariff benefit, so let’s assume that’s not in the cards. Just to make things super complicated and messy, it could use the BMW V8, but that’s only assembled in the US, with parts coming from Europe.
A BMW engine also cuts against the answer to the second question. I think, given that the Grand Wagoneer is built in Warren, and that no one really likes the big SUV, it’s logical to guess that the next GW could be based on a Defender. That way, Stellantis can build a GW that people might actually buy and Land Rover can get a truck that it doesn’t have. S&P Global Mobility had a guess along these lines this week:
While it is still in the early stages, with only a memorandum of understanding signed so far, JLR has indicated that a positive outcome will lead to a Defender-brand product. Mobility Global sees this as being most likely a larger Defender ‘150’ model, based on a replacement of the Jeep Grand Wagoneer being most likely to meet the expectations of US buyers.
I think I buy the truck concept more, but this confirms with my sense that the Grand Wagoneer and Defender will have to share a platform for this to make sense. And what about a powertrain? The two brands could also co-develop a new V8 that works for both vehicles, likely based on the current Hemi V8. While V8s are having a bit of a comeback, who knows what a new administration might do, and it wouldn’t hurt either company to share development costs.
People aren’t cross-shopping Jeeps and Range Rovers, so as long as the two theoretical rivals stay in their own lane, it could work out for both of them. [Ed Note: I think the Grand Wagoneer should be more of a Kia Telluride rival; in my eyes, it needs to go downmarket to be successful. -DT].
Volvo Might Give Us The Good PHEVs
When I drove the S60 PHEV above, I argued that America needed more plug-in hybrids. While the S60 had decent range, the problem most PHEVs have is that they don’t quite offer enough miles off the battery. There have been rumors lately that the tweaked Volvo XC60 PHEV could offer as much as 70 miles of range.
Volvo held a call to talk about the future, and it looks like the future might hold even longer range PHEVs. Here’s Bloomberg on the details:
The Swedish manufacturer controlled by China’s Geely said Tuesday it’s launching its first long-range hybrids for the European and American markets as versions of the bestselling XC60 and XC90. The SUVs have more powerful batteries and a range as far as 200 kilometers (124 miles) and 160 kilometers respectively on a single charge.
Initially seen as a stepping stone to battery-only vehicles, plug-in hybrids are being given a much longer lease of life as drivers demand more electric power to help offset surging fuel prices. Charging networks also remain insufficient in many countries, slowing the transition to pure EVs.
“Five years ago, perhaps people thought electrification was a linear story: it would take four years, everything would look like Norway and then we’d be done by 2030,” Volvo Car Chief Commercial Officer Erik Severinson said in an interview.
This could still be a 70-miles XC60 if that 200 km is on the WLTP standard, though depending on which test, I do think the XC60 could offer as much as 100 miles of EPA range. That would be awesome.
BYD Wants To Be A ‘European Company’
This is the ETT 44 4×2 heavy-duty electric tractor, which offers up to 372 miles of range from a massive 651 kWh battery. It’ll also, eventually, going to be built in Europe according to BYD exec and photo model Stella Li.
“For the long term, we will produce everything we sell in Europe here locally,” said Stella Li, BYD’s executive vice president and head of international business.
[…]
“Once you move everything produced locally, it’s okay. We become a European company,” Li said.
It’s just that easy!
Would Americans Even Like Chinese Cars?
It’s been a busy week or so on the Chinese-Cars-In-The-US beat. First, Sec. of Transportation Sean Duffy blasted Ford for partnering with a Chinese company to make batteries. The White House immediately tried to walk that back, and President Trump surprised some over the weekend by stating he’d be fine with a Chinese company building Chinese-branded cars in the United States.
Would anyone buy one? That’s the question that the Center for Automotive Research tried to answer by having some people at a conference get into a Xioami YU7. As the Detroit Free Press reports, experience did help a little bit:
Before riding in the vehicle, the participants were asked to rate their interest in purchasing a Chinese branded car. They rated it on a scale of one to five, five being the most interested. The participants on average rated their interest at 1.92.
After riding in the vehicle, when asked to rate their interest in purchasing a Chinese branded car, the score rose to 2.68, a 40% increase, CAR reported.
Ford CEO Jim Farley loved his Xiaomi, so that’s not a big surprise.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
If you’re a parent, you probably recognize Dove Cameron from roughly 9,000 Disney films. She’s also in the excellent Schmigadoon! television series. Her new song “When In Rome” is definitely for the adults.
The Big Question
How sick would a Defender pickup be? Who else should offer a pickup?
Top Photo: Heritage Customs
Its always curious to me how companies that make unreliable vehicles almost always partner with other companies that make unreliable vehicles.
If you make good, reliable vehicles, why would you ever want to give that knowledge to any competitor? No one is able to pay what that’s worth.
If neither you nor the partner know how to do it, both benefit by figuring it out against the rest.
It’s not particularly complex.
The only thing that makes sense for JLR to platform share with Jeep is a true, back to basics old school Defender continuation. Rough and ready rubber matted, hose out interior 90/110 style (if not accurately dimensional) wheelbases as well as a pickup version and maybe even a forward control that Jeep could even resurrect themselves.
DT, Jeep already has a Telluride competitor. The Grand Cherokee L. The Grand Wagoneer should stay the size it is but just make it……better. Or dump it entirely. With the new Ramcharger on the way, does Stellantis really need TWO giant BoF SUVs on the same sales floor? They’ll be priced within a few grand of each other and will definitely cannibalize sales from one another too. Both brands are too weak to compete with themselves.
The Big Question
How sick would a Defender pickup be?
The Big Answer
Very. As in not well. Sick all the time sick.
What could go
wrongright?Can’t LR and Jeep just merge?
They are practically the same: Archaic vehicles, served useful purposes 60 to 80 years ago, struggling to find relevance in this century.
Land Rover (who are part of Jaguar now) mostly sell Range Rovers. So many Range Rovers. I have no idea if they’re making money, but you have to admit that a range of SUVs is relevant this century.
The Land Rover pickup will be the darling of the dressage and daysailer clubs.
If the Defender is unibody and the Gladiator and Ram are BoF, what platform will the Defender pickup use? Will it just be a Defender body on a Ram frame?
I’m sure you anticipated this but I was definitely one of the people triggered by that headline. Just because Jeep wants to ask 6 figures for a car does not in any way make them an actual competitor to Land Rover. And for the off-road side of things, I doubt many Wrangler drivers are cross-shopping a Defender.
Wranglers are more expensive than Defenders here in the UK (for the same reasons they’re the other way around in the States).
Kinda makes sense, but wow. Funny how that tends to work.
Beyond the potential issues of a JLR-Stellantis tie-up, do we think there’s a market for a Defender pickup? It’ll be cool, that’s for sure. But I don’t know that the (modern) Defender buyer overlaps with the truck market. Also, if it loses BMW powertrains, it loses a huge amount of appeal.
Regarding Volvo, how much range is too much range for a PHEV? At some point, if the battery is going to be big and heavy anyway, might as well chuck the gas powertrain out and go full BEV. Where’s the line?
See the Ineos Quartermaster (and to a lesser extent the Jeep Gladiator) for how a Defender pick up would go. Hot product at first for people who want something different, followed up by demand cratering.
And the Ineos has a BMW powertrain, which is a pro over what this JLR-Stellantis vehicle will have.
50-60 miles would be perfect for us to comfortably toodle around town without ever kicking over the crankshaft but 120+ miles.. man I hope Volvo sells those vehicles with a bottle of fuel stabilizer in the cup holder.
Because these sound like the sort of second vehicles the well-to-do to leave dormant at their vacation homes in Vermont for 6 months out of the year
This would be like me helping my neighbor Jethro build an underground nuclear reactor.
Wasn’t that a TV show in the early Eighties?
An upgraded XC90 PHEV with closer to 100 miles of range would be awesome. We love our 2024, and the ~36 miles of EV range is generally enough for our daily use.
This will either be the most reliable Land Rover ever built, or set an entirely new record for unreliablity, there can be no middle ground
If history is any indicator, it will be the latter. Neither are known for stellar reliability.
Ford and gm are in hot pursuit.
Fair, though I will say Farley claims to have replaced a significant portion of their line managers that had a bit too much “that’s good enough” attitude, and initial indications are it’s helping. Whether that’s enough, of course, remains to be seen.
I’m old enough to remember the ‘Quality is Job 1’ slogan. I admit, it takes time and effort, but 45 yrs later you’d think they’d have worked it out.
Middle management got lazy, and upper management let them get that way.
Sustaining anything for even 20 years is tough – it takes a lot of discipline.
Even the likes of Toyota and Honda couldn’t sustain things for 45 years. Hopefully their recalibration won’t be as drastic as what Farley is undertaking.
Hard to do that when the union decides that’s not our job
It’s interesting that Grand Wagoneers are selling so poorly. Theoretically, a vehicle based on the DT Ram which is known for it’s coil-sprung comfort should be a slam dunk. Anecdotally, I see plenty of them on UW-Madison move-in week in and in northern WI resort towns, more than the Expedition.
The Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban and Expedition have the full size BOF market locked down. I’ve driven all 3 as rentals over the years and the Grand Wagoneer was the worst of the 3.
I’ve had time driving all 3 over the past year, and would also say the Wagoneer was the worst of the three. I actually may have liked the powertrain the most, but man it sucked down fuel.
From my time in one as a rental, I thought it road well and the powertrain was pretty good (but not mpg). Everything else was quite bad.
The GM competitors are also coil sprung and ride quite nice.
Stellantis and JLR working together. Finally, a worthy successor to the Hornet.
I have a question about the Land Rover and Jeep collaboration: Which company will be responsible for ensuring the electrical system fails before it rusts apart?
Match made in hell.
From my experience in exorcising the electrical demons that tried (And ultimately failed!*) to inhabit my wife’s 2016 Dodge Grand Caravan, I’d say that the restless ghost of Lucas, Prince of Darkness himself, likely possessed FCA/Stellantis engineers quite a while ago and may now simply be beckoning JLR to return to its master like a shambling, obedient golem.
*It was grounds. It’s always grounds with British/Lucas electricals. You have absolutely no choice but to disassemble anything with a major electrical ground connection and clean it with zealous, religious fervor whilst chanting “Begone, Prince of Darkness!” (To anyone observing, this of course looks like a typical British car enthusiast semi-aimlessly disassembling and-re-assembling bits of the car whilst muttering incoherently. In other words, perfectly normal British car-owner behavior.) In the case of the Dodge, the grounds tend to be inadequately sized and made with materials that get surface corrosion over time which creeps into the mechanical connection, eventually nullifying the ground. And it’s not limited to the chassis grounds. I found that the TIPM (“Totally Integrated Power Module” or what’s essentially a hopelessly overcomplicated fuse box) contains layers of metal pins and bus-bars that can develop surface corrosion as well. The ghost of Madman Joe Lucas clearly hung over the shoulder of some Chrysler engineer, gleefully rubbing his hands and cackling “Goooood…” like the Emperor in Return of the Jedi. I just know it.
Edit: Hey! The webpage crashed just as I initially saved this comment. Coincidence? Or is Lucas, Prince of Darkness trying to stop the truth from coming out? Ha! Begone, foul electrical demon!
They probably have to bring in Mitsubishi to consult on that.
Or Ford, as the 2022-24 Mustang has a wiring harness issue. Bad ground wire.
Their fix? Run a second one thru a grommet and hopefully your cooling fan stays lit!
Sounds like one of those tsbs you have to print out when bringing it in for a recall that ends up with greasy hand prints when you pick it back up
I don’t know if we’d love Chinese cars, but we bought a fridge and stove from a Chinese company several months ago and we think they’re terrific…and a fraction of the cost of their competitors. (We didn’t know they were Chinese when we bought them, they were recommended by CR.) They can’t be worse than the terrible Whirlpool appliances we got rid of.
Midea makes probably the best window air conditioning units at the moment
Yes, that’s them.
We’ve had one of their upright freezers for about five years now. It just works, and keeps things seriously cold. Didn’t cost an arm and a leg for that kind of reliability either. They seem to be really solid in the refrigeration/small HVAC space.
Good to hear.
I could see the hurricane or something like it being used for land rover. They could also go to cumins to get an engine. Their us buyers probably aren’t so ate up with has to be a v8.
Detroit is probably the worst place in the country to do that test and still did well by showing the cars. In most US cities I bet it’s more like 50% and goes up to 80% or 90% after experiencing a Chinese car especially if they can keep prices down. Unions and American values plus a war in recent memory helped keep the Japanese from taking over in the 70s. Non of that exists at any level in the population centers anymore.
How Hyundai positions it’s cars and Kia in the US it makes more sense to have a Kia truck. Kia trucks are all ready all over Latin America. Plus other then Hyundai there really isn’t a US car brand branding class 8 trucks in the US anymore. VW could use a truck and a Van. I bet Porsche dealers could sell a pickup well. It would get a lot of people who don’t buy new Porsches very angry. Volvo / Geely should build the RD6 in the US.
“If only there was a truck with Stellantis quality and Land Rover reliability,” said no one ever.
guy down the street has an import Toyota land cruiser GRJ 79 I believe is what he said it is. Basically looks like a US spec T100 front with 4 doors and Kei style bed with fold down sides. I feel like this formula is not something often seen in the US and should be brought over by Toyota if they still exist. Regardless when Hyundai does the Landcruiser/Bronco fighter, they should include a pickup variant up front vs waiting until the last minute like the H3T and Jeep Gladiator. Also make them cheaper, not more expensive.
Maybe a Testla truck will sell….
oh sorry, wrong decade.
I would guess that if they stripped one down and reskinned them, they might sell better.
Musk should have embraced his Commonwealth redneck ways instead of his space redneck ways and built a ute.
Ineos already makes the superior LR Defender pickup.
Except they chose the stupidest axles for it, should have went with Dana 60s ffs
I think the clean Sheet Carrero’s were thought to be on par with 60’s, I had not heard of them being weak though? I do appreciate the POrtal upgrade part of the design.
The issue isn’t strength, the issue is the lack of diff options. If you want a locking diff you better order it from the factory that way, and you got one option.
Dana 60s are plenty beefy enough and they have great aftermarket support.