There’s a report out today that attempts to answer some questions about how Jaguar Land Rover and Stellantis are going to suddenly make cars in the United States together. In theory, Jeep and Land Rover overlap. In practice, they really don’t.
This morning has been dominated by pickup truck news, and The Morning Dump will add to that pile with details about the JLR-Stellantis tie-up and how it includes a truck. It’s been like 50 years since the United States got a legit new Land Rover truck, so this is fun news. If you love plug-in hybrids, it sounds like Volvo is going to give us the plug-in hybrids that we’ve long desired.
While Land Rover expands to the US for production, BYD is planning to build big trucks of its own in Europe. The expansion of China into Europe makes sense, though the building of Chinese cars over here has been the cause of a lot of debate. Would Americans even embrace a Chinese-designed car? If it’s the right car.
If Land Rover Is Going To Build A Truck In The US, Will The Grand Wagoneer Go Unibody?
Stellantis and JLR announced earlier this year that the two companies would do something, at some point, in the United States. While it was vague, the conversation was around the Defender brand, which is key to Land Rover’s future. I am extremely in the bag for every variant of the Defender, so this news is catnip to me.
One of my favorite quotes from the time was from Stellantis CEO Antonio Filosa, who bragged about how “the new trade condition” makes the company’s “installed capacity very attractive to many other competitors or potential partners.” In plain English: tariffs are making it so that companies need to build in the United States, and Stellantis has more capacity than it can really use given its middling sales prospects.
Back in May, I speculated that this could be some kind of American Defender built in Jeep’s Warren, Michigan facility, which currently builds the unloved Grand Wagoneer. Via Britain’s The Times, of all places, comes more info:
Jaguar Land Rover is to enter the $80 billion American pick-up truck market for the first time with a US version of its bestselling Defender model.
The UK’s biggest carmaker is expected to unveil the plans in the coming months as boss PB Balaji begins a fightback after cutting 4,000 jobs.
In a major strategic pivot for the quintessentially British brand, the Defender pick-up will be built in America through a new joint venture with Chrysler carmaker Stellantis.
Given the Chicken Tax of it all, that Land Rover would build a truck variant makes a lot of sense. The current Defender is assembled in Slovakia, which means it’ll fall under the EU’s tariff deal, whatever that happens to be at any given point. The image above is of the Heritage Customs Land Rover Defender, and while I don’t think the new truck will look exactly like this if it gets built, I do imagine a Defender truck has to be four doors.
This leads to two questions, which will answer the question in the headline.
- What engine will it have?
- What does Jeep get out of it?
The US Defender has used a mix of engines, but the big V8s have either been the old supercharged JLR engine or the newer BMW mill used in the X7. Importing an engine cuts against the tariff benefit, so let’s assume that’s not in the cards. Just to make things super complicated and messy, it could use the BMW V8, but that’s only assembled in the US, with parts coming from Europe.
A BMW engine also cuts against the answer to the second question. I think, given that the Grand Wagoneer is built in Warren, and that no one really likes the big SUV, it’s logical to guess that the next GW could be based on a Defender. That way, Stellantis can build a GW that people might actually buy and Land Rover can get a truck that it doesn’t have. S&P Global Mobility had a guess along these lines this week:
While it is still in the early stages, with only a memorandum of understanding signed so far, JLR has indicated that a positive outcome will lead to a Defender-brand product. Mobility Global sees this as being most likely a larger Defender ‘150’ model, based on a replacement of the Jeep Grand Wagoneer being most likely to meet the expectations of US buyers.
I think I buy the truck concept more, but this confirms with my sense that the Grand Wagoneer and Defender will have to share a platform for this to make sense. And what about a powertrain? The two brands could also co-develop a new V8 that works for both vehicles, likely based on the current Hemi V8. While V8s are having a bit of a comeback, who knows what a new administration might do, and it wouldn’t hurt either company to share development costs.
People aren’t cross-shopping Jeeps and Range Rovers, so as long as the two theoretical rivals stay in their own lane, it could work out for both of them. [Ed Note: I think the Grand Wagoneer should be more of a Kia Telluride rival; in my eyes, it needs to go downmarket to be successful. -DT].
Volvo Might Give Us The Good PHEVs
When I drove the S60 PHEV above, I argued that America needed more plug-in hybrids. While the S60 had decent range, the problem most PHEVs have is that they don’t quite offer enough miles off the battery. There have been rumors lately that the tweaked Volvo XC60 PHEV could offer as much as 70 miles of range.
Volvo held a call to talk about the future, and it looks like the future might hold even longer range PHEVs. Here’s Bloomberg on the details:
The Swedish manufacturer controlled by China’s Geely said Tuesday it’s launching its first long-range hybrids for the European and American markets as versions of the bestselling XC60 and XC90. The SUVs have more powerful batteries and a range as far as 200 kilometers (124 miles) and 160 kilometers respectively on a single charge.
Initially seen as a stepping stone to battery-only vehicles, plug-in hybrids are being given a much longer lease of life as drivers demand more electric power to help offset surging fuel prices. Charging networks also remain insufficient in many countries, slowing the transition to pure EVs.
“Five years ago, perhaps people thought electrification was a linear story: it would take four years, everything would look like Norway and then we’d be done by 2030,” Volvo Car Chief Commercial Officer Erik Severinson said in an interview.
This could still be a 70-miles XC60 if that 200 km is on the WLTP standard, though depending on which test, I do think the XC60 could offer as much as 100 miles of EPA range. That would be awesome.
BYD Wants To Be A ‘European Company’
This is the ETT 44 4×2 heavy-duty electric tractor, which offers up to 372 miles of range from a massive 651 kWh battery. It’ll also, eventually, going to be built in Europe according to BYD exec and photo model Stella Li.
“For the long term, we will produce everything we sell in Europe here locally,” said Stella Li, BYD’s executive vice president and head of international business.
[…]
“Once you move everything produced locally, it’s okay. We become a European company,” Li said.
It’s just that easy!
Would Americans Even Like Chinese Cars?
It’s been a busy week or so on the Chinese-Cars-In-The-US beat. First, Sec. of Transportation Sean Duffy blasted Ford for partnering with a Chinese company to make batteries. The White House immediately tried to walk that back, and President Trump surprised some over the weekend by stating he’d be fine with a Chinese company building Chinese-branded cars in the United States.
Would anyone buy one? That’s the question that the Center for Automotive Research tried to answer by having some people at a conference get into a Xioami YU7. As the Detroit Free Press reports, experience did help a little bit:
Before riding in the vehicle, the participants were asked to rate their interest in purchasing a Chinese branded car. They rated it on a scale of one to five, five being the most interested. The participants on average rated their interest at 1.92.
After riding in the vehicle, when asked to rate their interest in purchasing a Chinese branded car, the score rose to 2.68, a 40% increase, CAR reported.
Ford CEO Jim Farley loved his Xiaomi, so that’s not a big surprise.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
If you’re a parent, you probably recognize Dove Cameron from roughly 9,000 Disney films. She’s also in the excellent Schmigadoon! television series. Her new song “When In Rome” is definitely for the adults.
The Big Question
How sick would a Defender pickup be? Who else should offer a pickup?
Top Photo: Heritage Customs
I would like to offer a competing service to the Jeep/Land Rover collaboration: you send me a large bag of your hard-earned money, and I will incinerate it for you.
I’d burn through it quickly, but I would not incinerate it…
“…it’s logical to guess that the next GW could be based on a Defender.”
Well, no, it’s not. The Defender is a midsize truck, not full-size, and Jeep already has a three-row midsize Jeep SUV–the Detroit-built Grand Cherokee. The Land Rover MLA architecture is also likely quite a bit more costly than the current WL platform (not to mention the typical Land Rover QRD issues). Also, you forget the new Ram Ramcharger will be built in Warren, and there’s no way you’d build a Ram SUV off a Land Rover platform.
A pickup is definitely a new segment for Land Rover in the US, but the list of successful luxury-branded pickups doesn’t have any names on it.
Anything to get people using more electricity in their drives (to propel the vehicle) is a good thing. Even a coal fired power plant charging something electric is still getting the equivalent of 50+ mpg. Which only a few ICE/hybrid cars consistently meet/beat.
JLR and Stellantis teaming up is…..a choice. Might as well make it a weekend subscription at that point. Tony and Charlie will need all week to make it run in time for Saturday night.
David the Jeep Grand Cherokee competes against the Telluride, notvthe Wagoneer.
This is one of the big problems with the current Jeep lineup. Which do you cross-shop with a Telluride? A Grand Cherokee L? A Wagoneer? A Grand Wagoneer? I don’t know and I bet most non-car people don’t either.
Given the Telluride’s prowess, none.
I just looked at both the Jeep and Kia websites. It’s definitely Grand Cherokee. They match in size, passenger capacity, and price.
Any of those would work. My choice of Grand Cherokee works best. It’s the most established and is better off road.
When they were doing a press event for the the grand wagoneer in Nashville before they launched them. I was driving though and kept seeing what I thought were weird new land rovers. Then I realized what they were when I was close enough to actually see. I think a lot of that happened. But it was a failed attempt to elevate the brand.
8 seats might be important too. I’ve seen people cross shop grand wagoneer to telluride and carnival. Telluride has more room in in most metrics then the Grand Cherokee l despite being about 4″ shorter. Plus I don’t think the general public really know about the gc l. It’s even really buried on jeeps website. Their mind still goes to grand wagoneer because jeep made a big deal about it.
Pricewise the GC and Telluride match and both can be speced with three rows.
I blame Jeep for the lack of publicity.
It’s close on price just down a seat and some interior space somehow. They probably need to match price or lower then the kia on MSRP. Then let the cash on the hood do a lot of the work.
That’ll do it.
Hopefully terminally, preferably stillborn.
I don’t think this is at all related to Tariffs, didn’t EU “negotiate” a 15% tariff? And then have it cancelled. And then have it put back in place?
I have a feeling that Stellantis is trying to keep the doors open, and having some extra production would make this feel like a cut-rate proposition for JLR.
I can only imagine the US-model Defender will feel a bit cut-rate next to a global version.
It’s all about tariffs.
The current tariff on trucks is 25% for the EU and a whopping 50% on the UK. Additionally JLR know that the tariff regime is highly unstable and could easily double for essentially no reason.
This is a vehicle for the US that they don’t already have their own manufacturing capacity for – it’s very sensible to build it in the US and avoid all the nonsense.
Defender is made in Slovakia.
And I thought UK was ‘still’ at 10%? Or was that the old 10%, how’d it get to 50% – was this part of his support of trying to break up the UK (Northern Ireland & Falkland Islands)?
Fackme the whole unstable tariff thing is absurd.
I only included the UK one to explain why they wouldn’t want to make trucks there either.
The EU has a 25% duty on trucks (HTS 8704.31.01.40), but no additional tariffs on top. The UK also has a 25% duty on trucks but is also stung with an additional 25% section 232 tariff on autos. Tariffs are my day job but it’s a real struggle to keep up. It may all change with a tweet next week.
“How sick would a Defender pickup be?”
Very sick. All the time. Getting surgery and transplants in the service bay, like most Land Rover products.
Or were you thinking of a different definition?
Hang on now! It’ll be a Stellantis product which will be completely…oh.
Would love to see a chart with the average milage driven by the average American per day and where 70 miles would fall on that chart.
Well if you just do average annual miles by days it comes out to ~37 mi per day. However for the daily commute miles I’ve seen numbers in the teens since that annual mileage includes road trips and longer weekend drives.
So yeah a 70mi PHEV means a carrying around extra battery that is under utilized for the majority of consumers.
Yeah, modern marketing has us all caught in specs instead of real world use/need. I.e. my fancy dive watch will still keep time at 1000 meters under water while I’ll have already become fish food at 50 meters. My old-ass ears are not picking up the nuances in sounds between $1,000 speakers and $10,000 speakers . . . but we all want what we want.
For me its kind of the opposite. My commute is 56 miles roundtrip and my Chevy Volt doesnt make it on one charge. If I average the annual mileage vs 365 days, its not going to be 56 miles per day, since I dont work the weekends, I dont drive it on the weekends (I use my “fun” cars) and when I am off from work for vacations, still not driven. (Either we fly or take our minivan).
70 miles is barely enough for people that drives +30min to their jobs (suburbs to the city for example).
My commute is 30 min, or more each way and I make the 32 mi round trip on my PHEV, advertised with a 37 mi EV range with some range to spare.
For what it is worth the result that came up today was the average commute is 14.4 mi each way while the median is 8.9 mi. So half of Americans drive under 20 mi/day on their commute and a good portion are under 30 mi per day.
Yes some of us drive something other than the commuter pod on days off, but the majority of Americans don’t have another car for weekends and in 2 car families sometimes both are needed at the same time.
Here is some old but good data on PHEV utilization rates. https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2020-01/appendix_g_pev_in_use_and_charging_data_analysis_ac.pdf
Figure 9 has some great data on the early Volt showing that depending on the season 60-70% of trips were EV only and 75-80% of all miles were EV.
Meanwhile the i3 REX with about twice the EV range of the Volt only increases the total EV miles to just over 90% and that is at a much lower annual mileage.
I am the far end of the bell curve. My drive to work is 2.2 miles. It takes 10-15 minutes. I drive a 400hp EV and spend all of $25 a month to commute, without having home charging available. The fact I can charge up and hit twisty canyon roads for weekend fun is a bonus.
Well, that isn’t sinister at all. If the Euro governments have the sense God gave a gadfly, they will stomp on this hard, or very shortly they will have no auto industry to speak of at all. This is the same playbook Chinese companies use all over the globe, so no use pretending you aren’t warned.
This has already happened. About a decade ago I was reading about towns in Italy that served as manufacturing/assembly centers for Chinese textile/garment businesses – the purpose being that “Made in Italy” commands a premium while “Made in China” is regarded as cheap.
IIRC, the gist of the articles were that the Chinese companies operated as closed ecosystems so that the local folks didn’t get much financial benefit out of the relationship.
Facts.
This is China’s relationship with the entire continent of Africa. Bribe politicos for favorable access to raw materials (usually, but not always minerals). Use the locals as cheap, expendable labor (job creation program), but close all technical and managerial roles to anyone not ethnically Han with a CCP passport.
He’s bragging that Stellantis is becoming an OEM?! I suppose. Because they they’re doing a poor job of branding (outside of Jeep). Might was well build ’em and let someone else brand them.
Even Jeep looks like Toyota compared to Land Rover LOL
Having worked with both companies: I’ll take Land Rover over Jeep any day.
😮
Wow that’s cool 😀
I don’t know about the demand for a Defender pickup. I can imagine it being the case that Land Rover buyers specifically think of themselves as not pickup people. And that upscale pickup buyers would not be interested in fussy English things. Too much disconnect. The Gladiator, rather less incongruous than a LR pickup, was still too much of a stretch to have strong sales beyond its year of introduction.
“I think the Grand Wagoneer should be more of a Kia Telluride rival; in my eyes, it needs to go downmarket to be successful.”
Jeep is already there with the quality and dealership experience. They just need to drop the MSRP.
If all LR does is graft on a shorty bed to a SUV….. Fail. Fail fail alllll day long.
The Defender truck should use the Hurricane engine.
Also, JLR using Stellantis to build their trucks does not bode well for their already spotty reliability reputation.
“…President Trump surprised some over the weekend by stating he’d be fine with a Chinese company building Chinese-branded cars in the United States.”
Until he isn’t.
Depends what mood he’s in that morning or whether he believes Xi did something to block a property deal one of his family members was setting up
Else, he’s just saying that because he heard there was interest from China in building in Canada.
TBQ: A Defender pickup would be very cool, but I wouldn’t buy one. I presume base price would be around $75k and total price would go up substantially once you started adding options. I like Land Rovers, but not enough to spend $80k+ on one. If I am spending that much on a pickup, I would opt for a Raptor or an F350 Tremor.
As for the second part of the question, my answer is Ferrari. Ideally, it would be a badge engineered lifted Ram 3500 with a six-figure price tag and a pretentious Italian name (too bad Laforza is already taken). Yeah, this wouldn’t sell. But it would be funny and the world needs more comedic badge engineering. The Cygnet was hilarious, but a FerRamri UomoForte (that is Italian for strong man, according to The Internet) would be hysterical.
More serious answer: Tesla. Sure, they already make the Cybertruck, but that only sorta counts. I conventional looking Tesla pickup could be cool.
A Ferrari pickup wouldn’t sell? Maybe, but let me point you in the direction of the Porsche Cayenne, the Lamborghini Urus, and most importantly, the Ferrari Luce.
Nobody thought any of those would sell. I’m pretty sure if Ferrari slapped a Prancing Horse ™ on a truck, I bet they’d sell every one they “made”, if for no other reason than customers wanting to stay on Ferrari’s nice list
To be fair, the Cayenne and Urus aren’t terrible vehicles if they are your thing. I don’t want either, but I can see where someone else would.
Fair point about the Luce, though. It would be interesting to see how cynical Ferrari can act and still keep their customers. I think a $200k badge-engineered Ferrari monster truck might be too much for even the most sycophantic Ferrari customers. I’m not certain, though.
This. One of my co-workers saw a Ferrari Purosangue on the road the other day, and he couldn’t figure out why someone would pay Ferrari money for an SUV. I told him it is probably someone who needs to build “a relationship” with the brand so Ferrari will consider selling them the car they actually want in the future.
TBQ: the current Defender? Eh. The old one, sure, but they don’t make it anymore. As for who should actually make a truck? Dodge. Folding Ram back in would boost sales numbers and make it look more like a worthy brand for investment. They’re probably the only make that would actually benefit image wise from making trucks again.
“Cares Oft”?
Oh, “Car-Eso-Ft”! Now I get it!
(I do not.)
Care Soft. Like every software company name from 1980 through the 2000s. They love ’em Soft!
Sounds like a soap brand.
Does Stellantis and Anthony Filosa realize what a bad look his bragging is? He’s screaming to the world that “We can’t sell enough cars and haven’t adjusted our capacity accordingly so we’re burning cash sitting on idle factories. But since the government is unstable we can sell that capacity to desperate foreign automakers!”
This is the exact short term gain without a long term product solution that they JUST went though over the 2020 period with V8 powered 20 year old platforms. Sure they’re working on a portfolio overhaul, but everything new seems like a dud. Stellantis remains a ship adrift at sea, bailed out time and again but dumb luck. This company is still just as screwed as it was under previous leadership.
I got a better TBQ: On a Jeep/Land Rover collaboration, what breaks first?
Exactly Jeep+Land Rover sounds like a match made in hell haha. I am assuming first being broke will be a dead LED taillight or light strip.
See, I think it’s going to be something like the key fob only locks but doesn’t unlock so you can’t get into the car
Ones trust in automakers.
Thinking back to TFL’s Defender that threw a code the first time they took it off road, on Day 2, and proved terminal even after JLR flew an engineer out to Denver from England to work on it.
“A Land Rover will get you anywhere, even to the ends of the earth. A Toyota will get you home.”
Kia needs a civilian version of this: https://org-military.kia.com/en/km450
100% would buy!
Totally!! Think how the van life/overlanders would buy up the ambulance or shop van versions.
Cheap cars will sell no matter where they come from. Kia and Hyundai’s introduction to the US market proved that out. Back in the 90s when they were brazen Honda knock-offs with iffy quality they sold well.
Stellantis build quality with the engineering know how of JLR? This is a fantastic idea!
This sounds better than the opposite.
Like this? https://ineosgrenadier.com/en/us/quartermaster