Home » Why I’m Getting Rid Of My Supposedly Reliable Toyota After 70,000 Miles Of Driving It

Why I’m Getting Rid Of My Supposedly Reliable Toyota After 70,000 Miles Of Driving It

Scion Iq Ts

There is a belief out there that if you just need a car to get you around reliably, get a Toyota, any Toyota, it doesn’t really matter which one. I’ve issued this advice myself. So, when my wife told me that she was buying what could be called the Toyota version of my favorite car, I immediately championed the idea. Unfortunately, our 2012 Scion iQ stopped being fun the moment the novelty wore off. Then came the problems. And now, after 70,000 miles, it’s time to say goodbye, and we won’t be crying.

Back in late 2023, my wife found herself in an uncomfortable position. The 2001 BMW 525i wagon that we bought from our secret designer, the Bishop, was pretty tired after driving 40,000 miles in a single year. Meanwhile, her 2010 Toyota Prius was totaled by a friend. Sheryl needed a reliable car and decided to get something fun.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

At the time, Sheryl thought she had some of her most driving fun behind the wheel of one of my Smarts. But I didn’t think this was a good idea because Smarts can be finicky and maintenance-intensive. Sheryl needed a car that just worked every time she turned the key.

What if she could get the Smart experience, but without the Mercedes-Benz maintenance quirks? That’s where the Scion iQ came in. The entire point of this car was to do everything that a Smart could, but do it better and with Toyota reliability. On paper, a used Scion iQ was perfect. It was easy to park, it got over 35 mpg, it had a decent trunk when the rear seats were folded down, it had a great dealership network, and it was even cheap to insure. The 2012 iQ we purchased was also affordable at $7,500 and had plenty of life left with only 67,000 miles on its odometer. What could go wrong?

It Was Love At First Drive

At first, the Scion iQ achieved its mission and more. Everyone thought it was cute. Sheryl easily scored well over 30 mpg, and she got her Smart Fortwo fix without the Smart Fortwo quirks. The BMW was able to be parked and worked on at Sheryl’s pace while she had a reliable car to drive to court in. It wasn’t even a month after she got the car when I penned a post that proudly proclaimed: Daily-Driving The Tiny Toyota America Ignored: Why The Scion iQ Is Criminally Underrated“.

I meant what I said in that article. I marveled at how Toyota’s engineers seemingly strategically identified everything that most people hate about Smarts and then built a car that had none of those issues.

The number one complaint about first- and second-generation Smart Fortwos is that they have a slow and clunky automated-manual transmission. Toyota got around that by giving the iQ a CVT. People disliked how early Smarts felt like they got into a crash every time they hit a pothole. Toyota gave the iQ a smoother suspension. Those same people also complained about how Smarts had only two seats and slow acceleration. Others worried – incorrectly – that a Smart couldn’t survive an accident with anything bigger than a bicycle.

Toyota’s engineers countered by making the iQ the world’s smallest four-seat car. It also had a larger, faster four-cylinder engine and so many airbags that Toyota invented the world’s first rear window airbag. Just for good measure, Toyota’s engineers also made sure that the iQ could turn vastly tighter than any Smart of the day. The iQ even drinks regular gasoline while a Smart demands premium.

We fell so hard in love with the car that, only a few months after getting it, we drove the iQ across America, following the remnants of Route 66. Then, we drove it back home, going directly through the Rockies. The car handled it just fine, which was impressive to me because the iQ is a city car, and climbing mountain passes is about as far from city driving as you can get.

The iQ’s Novelty Wore Away Quickly

Unfortunately, cracks started appearing before too long. In November 2024, I wrote an update about the car after it surpassed 33,000 miles in our hands. In that piece, I noted:

This trip did reveal a few more of the car’s weaknesses. For one, it guzzles fuel above 75 mph. If you drive too fast, the CVT sends the engine’s RPM a bit too high and your fuel economy might get as low as 29 mpg. At least that’s what it’s like in our car. Another downside is noise. There’s a ton of road noise at speed and you can’t escape it. You always hear the tires, always hear the wind, and always hear the bumps. Playing the stereo loud does drown it out, but you’re only replacing one noise with another noise. Add it up and a day of driving the iQ can drain your senses, even if you the drive isn’t particularly demanding. Thankfully, the engine does stay quiet most of the time. But the road noise is loud enough that we’re considering finding a tire known for quietness, which is something we’ve never had to do with any other vehicle, including Smarts.

Sheryl and I have differing opinions on the interior. My biggest problem with the interior is the lack of armrests. Your outer arm has an armrest, but Toyota’s engineers did nothing for your inner arms. So they’re sort of just flopping around uncomfortably. We’ve rectified this with a cheap armrest from Amazon, but it’s sort of a weird oversight.

Sheryl dislikes the seats. She says they are not comfortable on long drives and they’re only made worse by the lack of bolstering and the lack of heating. Smart somehow offered bolstered and heated seats, why couldn’t Toyota? Indeed, I do feel the iQ’s seats are more comparable to the seats found in a city bus, but I don’t find them as uncomfortable as Sheryl does.

The car started giving us our first problems, too. As we exited the Grand Canyon during our Route 66 trip, the car started exhibiting noises we hadn’t heard before. My well-tuned ear identified the noise as a CVT whine, and there was a point in our road trip when the whine was intrusively loud. We had the CVT fluid changed the moment we got home, which killed the whine. Then, the whine came back only 10,000 miles later, with the whine getting worse 20,000 miles after it was changed.

We got multiple opinions from Toyota dealers who used to sell iQs. Both told us that the CVT isn’t really repairable, and that it could blow tomorrow or last the remainder of the life of the car. Either way, the “fix” for the whine is replacing the whole transmission. That issue remains unresolved today. We just change the fluid every time the whine gets loud again.

The other annoyance was the cruise control system. Toyota never offered the iQ with a cruise control system in America, and retrofitting a Toyota OEM system into an iQ is beyond my skill level. So, Sheryl bought an aftermarket cruise control for $800, installation included. This was our favorite upgrade to the iQ, and it made driving the little car long distances so much better.

That was until the cruise control unit began failing less than a year after we installed it. The cruise control unit is tied into the car’s throttle-by-wire system, and when the cruise module fails, it sends bad signals to the by-wire system. In our case, this often led to the car behaving like it’s misfiring before going into limp mode. Eventually, the failed cruise control led to a complete failure of the accelerator pedal. Basically, Sheryl would hit the gas, and the car wouldn’t do anything. The engine wouldn’t even rev. Or, alternatively, she’d hit the gas just a little, and the car would rev to the moon.

We’d later find out that this is a known issue with aftermarket cruise control units installed in some Toyota models, including the iQ. It’s not the car’s fault. Unfortunately, from my personal experience, it seems to me like some of the companies that make some of these units do rather lackluster soldering jobs.

At any rate, Sheryl had both the accelerator pedal and the cruise control replaced. Then both failed for a second time, again, not even a year after installation. The car is on its third or fourth gas pedal now, which is a wild thing to say. Thankfully, the third cruise control unit has been holding together and has not failed, so this issue might finally be a thing of the past.

What Was Toyota Thinking?

When the car wasn’t annoying us by frying its gas pedals, it was frustrating us with how hard its design had made simple maintenance tasks.

See, in order to get the Scion iQ to fit four people, Toyota packaged the super tiny engine bay so that all the components are more or less on top of each other. If you want to change your spark plugs, the proper method involves removing your windshield wipers, removing the hood cowl and its tray, removing the airbox, the intake, and the throttle body, and bam, you’re finally at the plugs. All of this means a job that takes minutes in most may take hours in the iQ.

It seems that many mechanical repairs are like this when it comes to wrenching on an iQ. You have to jump through a bunch of extra hoops because the brilliant engineering that made the car so small also makes it a pain to work on. Yet, it takes me only 10 minutes to replace the spark plugs in a Smart.

Img 20260624 125250
There was never a cover here!

All of this was enough to wear Sheryl and me pretty thin on this car, but there’s more. The Scion iQ’s design seems to invite corrosion. The wheel wells have steel alcoves in them that aren’t protected. All kinds of road salt, grime, and other nasty debris get caked up in there, forcing me to clean them out fairly regularly.

Img 20260624 125518
Hidden under the weather seal.

Something I also noticed early on was that the vehicle’s door seals trap road salt and other fine debris. If Sheryl took a long enough drive on a salty road, I always found salt under the door seals. Sure enough, there’s corrosion there! I have seen images of Toyota iQs in other countries that had seriously rotted out door sills. I have to wonder if this is where that rot starts?

Img 20260624 125321
This is the right door. So crunchy!

Rust has been a battle all over this car. There’s a rust spot at the bottom of the passenger door, the subframe is pretty crusty, and the engine bay has also seen better days. I’ve been able to kick the can down the road with an oil-type undercoating, but I feel like I’m fighting a losing battle with all of these places for rust to fester.

Everyone Hated The iQ

The car also seemed to develop an image problem. Once my family, my wife’s clients, judges, and my wife’s opposing counsel stopped seeing the novelty of a tiny lawyer car, they started hating the little thing with a passion. Clients stopped paying their bills, my wife lost lucrative contracts, and my own mom even claimed to have lost some respect for my wife. The wild part is that all of these people loved the iQ in 2023 and 2024. But by 2025, they just weren’t having it. Seemingly overnight, Sheryl went from being seen as an underdog or a wolf in sheep’s clothing to a big phony.

Img 20260624 125743

This alone was devastating because it meant that the car was directly impacting her life, and in a negative way. At first, we stayed the course. We told the haters to live with it. But, eventually, it all became too much, and Sheryl began shopping for other cars. She even attempted to buy a Hyundai Genesis while high on anesthesia drugs.

The final nail in the coffin wasn’t the car’s poor image, the rust, the whining transmission, the poor high-speed fuel economy, or the stupid cruise control. It was a Volkswagen. Back in February, I found myself trying to offload my 2012 Volkswagen Jetta SportWagen TDI. Sheryl protested the sale of the vehicle because she loved it so much. This car was also one of the first we bought as a couple, some six years ago. She was way more attached to it than I was.

Img 20260624 125615

So, I thought, what the heck, I’ll just give it to her. She has been driving it ever since then and hasn’t touched the Scion even once. The only time the Scion ever moves out of its parking space is when I drive it out of pity. What gives?

Sheryl realized that there’s basically no comparison between the Volkswagen and the Scion. The Volkswagen gets better fuel economy, is infinitely more comfortable, has a lot more room, is so much quieter, and is far less fatiguing. Now, none of this is particularly surprising. The Scion is a city car, while the Volkswagen is a German diesel wagon. To her, the Volkswagen is like playing in the big leagues while the iQ can’t even get into the minors. All of the people who hated the iQ are dumping loads of praise on the Volkswagen, too.

Img 20260624 125212

There’s another important factor: The Volkswagen had about 354,000 miles when I gave it to Sheryl. I fully expected the car to break down within 500 miles of her taking ownership. Yet, she’s reached nearly 10,000 miles since taking the car and, aside from tiny repairs like new bulbs and a new blower motor resistor, the car has been great. She’s also getting 45 mpg, which is so much better than the iQ at the same speeds, and the Volkswagen has been cheaper to run despite the high cost of diesel fuel.

I told Sheryl to hold onto the iQ in case the Volkswagen blows up, but the wagon seems rather intent on proving me wrong. Everything continues to run like a fine sewing machine, from the air-conditioner to the fully intact emissions equipment. It has gotten to the point where the iQ is sitting for so long that its gas is going bad, and the parking brake seized.

No Regrets

Sheryl has no intentions of ever driving the iQ again. She says she doesn’t regret buying the car. It was the right car at the time that she bought it. The vehicle served its purpose. But she has moved on, and she doesn’t have the same car tastes that she did in 2023.

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So, she’s decided to part ways with the Scion. Thankfully, it won’t go too far away. When my parents heard that Sheryl was getting rid of the car, they made me an offer that I couldn’t refuse. Why, yes, this is the same car that my parents said they hate.

See, my dad drives a gas Ford F-350 that gets in the low teens for fuel economy, while my mom drives a GMC Yukon XL that scores in the high teens. These vehicles, which were purchased to tow heavy camper trailers, spend most of their time not towing anything. To them, having the iQ as a going-to-town rig will be perfect, so they don’t have to drive lumbering giants just to buy some groceries.

I warned my parents about everything I’ve written about here, but they’re determined to buy the iQ, anyway. Sheryl likes this idea because it keeps the iQ in the family, but it also means that we don’t have to worry about it anymore. I’m looking forward to never dealing with that darned intake manifold ever again.

Img 20260624 125844

Truth be told, I still don’t think there’s anything wrong with the Scion iQ itself. I think we just got a temperamental example, and then gave it an unfortunate modification. Sheryl then put 33,000 miles on it in a single year. You could argue that Sheryl’s experience wasn’t surprising, given that she used a city car as a road trip car.

If anything, this is a story about knowing what car is the best fit for you. That city car might be cute, but are you going to enjoy driving it on a highway? That Miata is fun, but will you need more than two seats? That huge truck looks the business, but are you going to be okay with 13 mpg and something the size of a small nation? Those are questions every car buyer should ask themselves.

Hopefully, Sheryl’s future car endeavors won’t be so dramatic. I have now written 12 articles about my wife’s iQ since 2023. Some were happy, some were not. With any luck, you aren’t going to hear a whole lot about that Volkswagen. Oh, who am I kidding? Give it a couple more months, tops.

All photos and top graphic image: Mercedes Streeter

 

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Ishkabibbel
Member
Ishkabibbel
1 month ago

There is a belief out there that if you just need a car to get you around reliably, get a Toyota, any Toyota, it doesn’t really matter which one.

This was said about Honda in the late 90s / early 2000s. I discovered Prelude is a spectacular exception to that rule.

Box Rocket
Box Rocket
1 month ago
Reply to  Ishkabibbel

Yeah, honda lost that reputation pretty hard with the “glass transmission” Odysseys, amd hasn’t earned it back since.

Nowadays the closest brand that comes to “mindless dependability/reliability” is probably Mazda.

Pneumatic Tool
Pneumatic Tool
1 month ago

This is certainly a comprehensive list of reasons why someone wants to part with a vehicle, and we all get there eventually. When you get past the honeymoon stage with a car, you’re likely to find a couple things that you dislike about it. With time and familiarity, that list gets longer, but you bury those things because it still performs in whatever capacity it was purchased for. Eventually, the weight of maintenance and repair hits the tipping point and all of those faults come bubbling back.

The logic of buying was solid – it fit the bill at the time, but it seems that the intended usage started to evolve. As stated, this is a city car at heart – designed for tight parking spaces and close confines. Putting it out on the open road for long trips will show the difference between it and other vehicles.

The difficulties of maintenance/repair with this design and the propensity to corrode are a different side of the same coin. Based on the city car scenario, I think that even Toyota conceded the fact that it was going to be somewhat disposable and not built for the long haul like most of their products. None of this is intended to be a slight to Mercedes or her wife in any way – we all have made vehicle purchases based on the here/now that have fallen out of favor when our needs change. Ask me about the coupe I bought when I was first married and how it was pressed into service as a baby hauler when our firstborn arrived.

RYAN HAMPL
RYAN HAMPL
1 month ago

Avalon

Goblin
Goblin
1 month ago

Re-reading your other article, the “…if Sheryl cared about me and actually respected me, she’d drive a real lawyer car and make more money…” part from your mom – the iQ’s weight in that one is about the same as the color of the birds chirping in the neighbor’s yard three blocks over. There’s another hint there that drowns everything else.


Space
Space
1 month ago
Reply to  Goblin

Yep, it’s the gasoline. Diesel or premium only for her. Unleaded gets no respect.

Logan
Logan
1 month ago

If you want to change your spark plugs, the proper method involves removing your windshield wipers, removing the hood cowl and its tray, removing the airbox, the intake, and the throttle body, and bam, you’re finally at the plugs.

I mean it could be worse. At least this is an expertly packaged, innovatively designed microcar where the maintenance compromises are the price you pay for its size efficiency; compared to changing the spark plugs on your, say, 4th generation Camaro.

Last edited 1 month ago by Logan
Goblin
Goblin
1 month ago
Reply to  Logan

Yep, pretty much every car with a transversal V6 requires the intake and all the gizmos to be removed to access the rear cylinder bank. And those are not cute innovative cars.

Speedway Sammy
Speedway Sammy
1 month ago
Reply to  Goblin

True, did that on a Lexus ES300. Working on that rear bank is challenging. And their cam cover and spark plug tube seals get hard as a rock and leak. Cheap elastomers.

BenCars
Member
BenCars
1 month ago

The iQ is a novelty city car for short distance urban use. You’ve already alluded to this, you didn’t use it as intended, so it’s not surprising that it hasn’t fully lived up to expectations.

Will Packer
Will Packer
1 month ago

I will always come to praise the iQ whenever you post about it! I loved my Scion, with it’s TARDIS “Bigger on the inside” sticker, but had to part ways due to the lack of cruise control. When I took my last road trip, my right ankle was swollen like a softball from holding down the go pedal from Florida to Virginia. 🙁
I would have never been able to complete my current annual Arizona to Alabama road trip without possible serious ankle problems. I would still love to have one for city driving!

Dodsworth
Member
Dodsworth
1 month ago

Psst. Don’t feel guilty for giggling while writing, “The Scion IQ stranded my mother in an Illinois snow storm” in a few months.

CR-V Oswald
Member
CR-V Oswald
1 month ago

I’m heartened that your hostile family came around and bought the car from you.

Pappa P
Pappa P
1 month ago
Reply to  CR-V Oswald

I feel like they gaslighted her into thinking that it sucks because they wanted it lol

CR-V Oswald
Member
CR-V Oswald
1 month ago
Reply to  Pappa P

Hmmmmmm

Mayor McZombie
Mayor McZombie
1 month ago
Reply to  Pappa P

Nah they bought it from her because they probably thought nobody else would and they wanted to help, especially after making her feel bad.

RustyJunkyardClassicFanatic
Member
RustyJunkyardClassicFanatic
1 month ago
Reply to  Pappa P

Yeah, and it was completely hypocritical since they were disrespectful and it was so uncalled for.

FormerTXJeepGuy
Member
FormerTXJeepGuy
1 month ago
Reply to  CR-V Oswald

I would turn around and give them the same comments back once they own the car. Also, don’t help them fix it.

Rich Mason
Rich Mason
1 month ago

I will be happy to bid the sum of tree fiddy for this fine piece of automotive engineering.

Ishkabibbel
Member
Ishkabibbel
1 month ago
Reply to  Rich Mason

Go back to where you came from, Loch Ness Monster!!

TurboFarts
Member
TurboFarts
1 month ago

Am I missing something here? When they were both available at the same time the iQ costs the same as a Sentra. So, one of the absolute cheapest vehicle available in the US market. No matter the brand, at that level the saying “you get what you pay for” is true.

Speedway Sammy
Speedway Sammy
1 month ago

That was the period of peak Toyota reputation and the Scion brand got a premium above it.

TurboFarts
Member
TurboFarts
1 month ago

Interesting. Doesn’t negate my point and maybe makes the vehicle an even worse purchase decision.

Last edited 1 month ago by TurboFarts
Forrest
Member
Forrest
1 month ago

I am so sad this car’s wheelbase is a few inches too short for the 24 Hours of Lemons’ minimum wheelbase of 82 inches. Otherwise, I would buy it and start a team called “Low iQ Racing.”

Speedway Sammy
Speedway Sammy
1 month ago
Reply to  Forrest

Do they allow you to do a stretch?

Forrest
Member
Forrest
1 month ago
Reply to  Speedway Sammy

The Lemons rules say usually not

RustyJunkyardClassicFanatic
Member
RustyJunkyardClassicFanatic
1 month ago
Reply to  Forrest

Well, that sounds pretty SMART!

Howie
Member
Howie
1 month ago

Thanks Mercedes, that was a good honest look at the car and the decisions. Its a bummer that the car itself lends the opinions it does

V10omous
Member
V10omous
1 month ago

I’m actually kind of shocked that the type of person shallow enough to not only judge someone’s professional reputation by their car, but to *say so publicly* would be that impressed by an old VW.

Cheap Bastard
Member
Cheap Bastard
1 month ago
Reply to  V10omous

Publicly passing judgements is most of what they do.

Spikersaurusrex
Member
Spikersaurusrex
1 month ago

This is my experience with Toyota. They leave out the little things, like your cruise control, or the interval wipers on the Taco I used to have. Highway miles shouldn’t have been an issue for this car or its transmission, but of course there was no sound deadening; it’s a city car. I don’t get why people are so enamored of Toyotas. Anyhow, good luck with the VW, but at 345K, you should be looking for its replacement.

Kurt B
Member
Kurt B
1 month ago

Mercedes, August 2026:

“I have joined the VAG Dieselgate class action lawsuit, F*** Volkswagen”

CR-V Oswald
Member
CR-V Oswald
1 month ago
Reply to  Kurt B

Doesn’t Merc currently or formerly own 403,196 VAG vehicles?

Echo Stellar
Member
Echo Stellar
1 month ago
Reply to  CR-V Oswald

She’s the class. That’s the strategy!

RustyJunkyardClassicFanatic
Member
RustyJunkyardClassicFanatic
1 month ago

Ha ha yeah, but seriously you really are a very “SMART” person and have a high “iQ”. We love your articles and are so happy that you are here. The Autopian is the best site on the net ever!

Fix It Again Tony
Fix It Again Tony
1 month ago

You know you’ll be obligated to service this car if you sell it to your parents right?
Also, every problem they encounter in the future will be Sheryl’s fault.

Data
Data
1 month ago

IDIC plates, noice!

Should have gotten the Aston Martin Cygnet variant. Then you would have badge armor. To bad it was never federalized.

Albert Ferrer
Member
Albert Ferrer
1 month ago

“Truth be told, I still don’t think there’s anything wrong with the Scion iQ itself. I think we just got a temperamental example, and then gave it an unfortunate modification.”

Truest words on the article. There is nothing inherently wrong with the car. Also in Europe you could have those with a 5 speed, solving another issue.

I love the iQ, very clever packaging.

I also don’t understand the hatred on the car. Maybe people like to hate things they don’t understand.

However the Golf Variant diesel definitely is a very different animal and much more suited to the use!

N541x
Member
N541x
1 month ago

My take on this? Cars are wear items that get used up. It’s a cheap car and you got your use out of it.

Mind you, it was a cheap car when new. A cheap car that’s old, even a Toyota, is still a cheap old car.

The car you should be after next is the Lexus CT 200h, which was a Prius engine, Corolla-platformer wrapped in a Lexus suit with comfy seats.

Hoser68
Hoser68
1 month ago
Reply to  N541x

Absolutely. The difference in quality of a Toyota build to be cheap on the showroom floor and one that is built more for the reputaiton of quality is stark. I’ve never had a bad Toyota, but I’ve seen Corollas have all sorts of crap fall of and break that lasts forever on a Camry. And when you move to Lexus? Yet another step up. Toyota doesn’t want there to be any question about a Lexus being put together right.

Edrummer106
Edrummer106
1 month ago
Reply to  Hoser68

Yeah, my last car was a Corolla that after 160,000 miles had zero mechanical issues but all kinds of plastic bits were falling off and electrical issues were rearing their ugly head.

N541x
Member
N541x
1 month ago
Reply to  Hoser68

I’m not discounting what you’re saying, but all Toyotas go through the same quality, longevity and durability testing. Corollas should be put together as good as a Camry, but it sounds like you’ve seen some that aren’t. Conversely, when people claim a Lexus is “just” a Toyota, they’re missing it. They’re describing what they can understand more than reality.

Where I live in the PNW if we get used Toyotas from California they’re almost always used Prius or Corolla that had their lifeblood drained slowly by Uber riders and arrive up here beat the eff up.

After all, you haven’t lived unless you’ve had to ride in a shared Uber where the driver who is from out of town is somehow borrowing someone else’s Prius and she doesn’t have the key and it keeps flashing that she doesn’t have the key but she just isn’t planning on turning it off, so she should be fine.

Hoser68
Hoser68
1 month ago
Reply to  N541x

The term “tested” is loaded.

For example, take seat testing. A Corolla seat passes if the robot butt doesn’t cause the seat to be destroyed in so many cycles. The Lexus seat fails if the seat looks like hell after the robot butt is through, even if it is still functional. Both got tested the exact same way for the same number of cycles, but the criteria for what is a pass varies based on budget and consumer expectations.

This is not a slam against Toyota, they have a budget and they show on the Corolla that they are focused on optimizing that budget to focus on the crap that is actually important to the car functioning for a long time. But the stuff that isn’t critical to the car being safe and reliable just isn’t tested as extensively on a car with a bigger budget, just because they don’t have the money.

Now as for the Camry. The Camry is a unique car in the Toyota lineup. Rav4s will have worn interiors before similar year Camrys in general. The reason is that the Camry factory is also making ESs. The ES requirements are stricter for interior parts than a normal Toyota. These requirements are in the parts that a Camry and ES share (such as a headliner). The ES budget is added to Camry budget on these shared parts and it shows.

Like a coworker has a 10 year old RAV4. The steering wheel is sort of crumbly and falling apart and he has put a cover over it. I have a 21 year old Camry. The steering wheel is in good shape.

N541x
Member
N541x
1 month ago
Reply to  Hoser68

The Lexus ES is no longer made at the Camry factory in Georgetown, Kentucky. It is now made by the Kiyushu Miyata plant (Miata is always the answer?) in Japan.

Respectfully, I don’t think the Grand Highlander is nicer as a result of the Lexus TX being made in Indiana at the same plant.

Hoser68
Hoser68
1 month ago
Reply to  N541x

I didn’t realize the change. However, it isn’t the factory that’s as important as part sharing. If a Camry and Lexus use the same part, then the part will be tested to Lexus levels. I don’t know the Grand Highlander or the TX (both well outside of my price range). Which gets to something else.

If I’m getting a cheap car, I want a durable car. I don’t expect a car that is going to look new in 10 years, but I want one that is still running well. If I am getting an expensive car, I expect a car that not only is great to drive now, but will be in basically in like-new condition in 10 years.

This isn’t a Toyota thing, but an everyone thing. The Grand Highlanders I’ve seen around that are older seem to be holding up as well as similar year Camrys, but I can say the same about all their competitors.

Saul Goodman
Saul Goodman
1 month ago
Reply to  N541x

A CT is 100% the move. Preferably a 2016 or newer to avoid potential head gasket problems (supposedly cleaning the EGR system on earlier models can help avoid this; never had it done on my ’13, and it’s at 110k with zero head gasket problems).

The only other concern with this car would be the hybrid battery, and road noise can be a little excessive on highways compared to other Lexus products of the time.

Last edited 1 month ago by Saul Goodman
Dogisbadob
Dogisbadob
1 month ago

Honestly, you guys sound like good candidates for the Mercedes B-Class. It’s one of the better cars they made, though they only sold it in Canada, not down here. (the only B-Class we got was the electric one with a shitty motor from Tesla).

The first gen W245 has a CVT (if you’re really lucky, you can find one with a manual transmission), while the second gen uses a DCT.

Also, for the CVT fluid changes, if you had a whine, maybe you could’ve tried Lubegard CVT additive or something. Even if it didn’t work, it’d still be worth trying.

Albert Ferrer
Member
Albert Ferrer
1 month ago
Reply to  Dogisbadob

The original B200 Turbo was a fast thing!

Box Rocket
Box Rocket
1 month ago
Reply to  Dogisbadob

B-class is a neat package, but yeah the mishmash of parts and general apathy of MBUSA to niche models doesn’t seem very encouraging.

Josh Taylor
Josh Taylor
1 month ago

The problem with Toyota to me has always been the bottom of the barrel interiors. Sure you get reliability but you end up with a budget interior.

Clark B
Member
Clark B
1 month ago
Reply to  Josh Taylor

Going with the VW comparison, I too have a Jetta Sportwagen TDI. I’ve also spent a decent amount of time detailing a contemporary Corolla, and there’s a huge difference in interior quality. The Toyota was nothing but hard scratchy plastic, flat, uncomfortable seats with rough fabric, and a steering wheel that felt about as quality as a kids toy. The VW is no luxury car but it came standard with Bluetooth, heated seats, power recline seats, adjustable lumbar support for both front seats, and a leather wrapped steering wheel. Plus soft touch plastics in the places you’d want them, and a MFD with basic info like average mpg, trip duration, etc. Oh, and auto up/down window switches on every door, something I can’t believe isn’t an industry standard by now.

And my Sportwagen has been just as reliable as the Toyotas my friends and family drive. I can’t say that about every VW I’ve owned, but this one has been great to me.

N541x
Member
N541x
1 month ago
Reply to  Clark B

Sure you’re correct about THAT comparison of Corolla to Jetta.

…but a Passat was never as nice as a Camry is now interior-wise.

A lot of Volkswagens only have virtual touch membrane haptic controls now. That’s part of the interior. lol

The Volkswagen Atlas is horrendously bad inside compared with virtually all competitors in terms of interior quality.

Similarly, I would encourage you to compare Audi and Lexus models that have the same price.

Pappa P
Pappa P
1 month ago
Reply to  Josh Taylor

Those shitty interiors are shockingly durable and practical, but yeah, even Kia has noticeably nicer interiors.

Josh Taylor
Josh Taylor
1 month ago
Reply to  Pappa P

Yeah but as someone who has a Honda and doesn’t care about trucks, I just don’t see why you would buy Toyota over Honda considering you spend your time in the interior. Honda interiors are so much better. Also when I tested the GR corolla, the sound system was so laughably bad it was pathetic. I just don’t get the hype. Now if you step up to Lexus that is a different thing but paying Lexus prices for Toyota quality is stupid.

Pappa P
Pappa P
1 month ago
Reply to  Josh Taylor

Honda interiors are nicer for sure. Reliability is decent but Toyota has the edge there.
I think the main thing is that Toyota usually gets the job done for less money.
In the Toronto area, a Civic Type R is about $15,000 to $20,000 more than a GR Corolla.
The Honda is great, but nowhere near as special as the GR. I’d use the $20k saved to upgrade the stereo.
I think it’s a good thing when some consumers avoid Toyota on principle. Those other brands need buyers, before every new car evolves into a RAV4.

Thomas Ogle
Thomas Ogle
1 month ago
Reply to  Josh Taylor

I am looking to replace the ’17 RX350 I currently have my wife driving with a ’23 or newer RX350h. I was shocked when I sat in a ’24 at how much they have cheapened the interior. I am tempted to live with the hellscape that is the entertainment system in her ’17 to not spend 50k to drive what feels like a 2008 Yaris.

Josh Taylor
Josh Taylor
1 month ago
Reply to  Thomas Ogle

Yeah my parents have a 22 rx350 and the interior is pretty good compared to my acura but I looked at a newer one and you are correct. They have really cheapened it. Toyota kinda sucks now honestly. With their issues with the Tundra engines, I wouldn’t recommend one.

CarEsq
Member
CarEsq
1 month ago
Reply to  Thomas Ogle

Look to aftermarket head units. There’s one for the GX460 that’s amazing. It’s quite a build out from what I’ve read, but it’s like a full fledged iPad touch screen that looks factory. Can’t imagine they didn’t do something similar for the RX.

N541x
Member
N541x
1 month ago
Reply to  Thomas Ogle

It depends on the trim level now more than before… a Luxury trim or RX 500h are definitely a step up from that generation (I had one in 2016), but the base ones are a step backward in luxury.

As for the infotainment hell, please go on Amazon and buy one of these kits that puts a new CarPlay touchscreen in front of the old non-touch screen that somehow integrates with all the systems still. I don’t have a car that needs this, but I want to see how well they work!

My Other Car is a Tetanus Shot
Member
My Other Car is a Tetanus Shot
1 month ago

Oh, Mercedes.

Don’t sell cars with known problems to family/friends. I know you told them about the problems, but please reconsider this. This will haunt you, even if you have a sworn affidavit claiming you told them about everything. Unloading it to someone you’ll never see again is a better idea.

Something like the $7,800 low mileage Toyota Avalon featured in the Shitbox Showdown not too long ago would be just a perfect car for a cheap highway car for someone on a budget.

Why? Classic Toyota Buick-y goodness + low miles + good drivetrain (change the timing belt) + Texas car (no rust) + relatively cheap = perfect thing to subject to the horrors of grueling salt-belt Interstate hauls. Cheap enough to ruin with a clean conscience, nice and reliable enough to hopefully last a bit under those conditions.

Anyway, still kind of glad to hear the VW has found its seventh wind as a commuter. For awhile, at least.

My Other Car is a Tetanus Shot
Member
My Other Car is a Tetanus Shot
1 month ago

Well then. Make sure to enjoy the chaos with popcorn.

Huffy Puffy
Member
Huffy Puffy
1 month ago

Hey, heads up, this comment got pasted to the bottom of your Smart story.

Dan G.
Member
Dan G.
1 month ago

Old Autopian proverb: revenge is a used vehicle with a CVT.

4moremazdas
Member
4moremazdas
1 month ago

Don’t sell cars with known problems to family/friends. I know you told them about the problems, but please reconsider this. 

I’m more haunted by selling cars with no known issues to people I know.

A neighbor bought my 2006 Mazda6 wagon for his son – it ran great when I had it but the son managed to blow it up in 2 weeks. I heard differing stories but either he was trying to “drag race” it without really knowing how to drive a stick or he drained the oil to change it and thought he could go to the parts store to get the right oil without refilling it.

We just sold my Mazda5 to a friend who has been borrowing it for months because she needed an inexpensive family car. I did a bunch of work to it a few years back but it’s been totally trouble free for a couple years now. I won’t be too bothered to help her fix little things if they do come up; I’m just worried the transmission is going to go or something like that.

JDE
JDE
1 month ago

I am still baffled how the car you drive has anything to do with a judges decision or a clients willingness to pay a bill. That is asinine to me.

I saw a TDI Golf today, had to be nearly the last of the TDI’s in America. I wonder if the Golf with a hatch would be viewed differently than the Same year Passat or Jetta TDI. or more tot he point for me at least if you can still get TDI parts in the US. I really considered a manual TDI to purchase for next to nothing during the Dieselgate as I loved the idea of diesel longevity and 50 mpg, though I now wonder if the EGR’s clogged on them like other bigger diesel stuff? and did they ever have Def?

JDE
JDE
1 month ago
Reply to  JDE

Or would things like formerly hot, but now not rides like the Bug (in TDI with manual and drop top) be shunned as well? https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/1b2c50a9-2a5a-4a9d-ac61-53dcc55710b2/

Albert Ferrer
Member
Albert Ferrer
1 month ago
Reply to  JDE

As discussed on the other article, diesel convertibles are simply a no go.

Needleroozer
Member
Needleroozer
1 month ago
Reply to  JDE

Earlier common-rail TDIs (like the Sportwagen Sheryl is driving now) did not have DEF, but the DPF is known for clogging up eventually, which winds up messing up the EGR valve as well. It is popular to delete the emissions equipment purely from a reliability perspective, especially since the Dieselgate fix for these non-DEF engines runs the emissions gear harder (and most of these cars are now outside of their extended emissions warranty post-fix).
Other models, like the 2012 Passat and the 2015-and-later TDIs, do have DEF and it does have to get topped off more frequently post-fix as well.

N541x
Member
N541x
1 month ago
Reply to  JDE

TDI are still common in the PNW…AND I ALWAYS PUT IT ON RECIRC BEHIND THEM!

Josh Taylor
Josh Taylor
1 month ago
Reply to  N541x

Diesel is a mess. The particulate things are real and I will be happy when Diesel is gone.

Mayor McZombie
Mayor McZombie
1 month ago
Reply to  JDE

If you went to the doctor’s office for the first time and they were dressed like shit, how would that make you feel?

JDE
JDE
1 month ago
Reply to  Mayor McZombie

i went to a Nuerosurgeon for my wife’s back and the doctor was wearing clothes that did not fit well. I did not really care, he was competent and available and knew what he talked about. I don’t really care or feel any specific way. faking it to suggest you have made it seems like a terrible way to be.

Mayor McZombie
Mayor McZombie
1 month ago
Reply to  JDE

It’s not “faking it to suggest you have made it.” There is nothing dishonest or fake about presenting yourself well. And this isn’t necessarily about clothes that don’t fit (although that’s part of it), but more like tattered rags vs looking presentable. And look, I get that that isn’t going to influence everyone, and a neurosurgeon whose office you’re going to where their accreditation in the form of diplomas and certificates is being displayed all over the walls is a bit different than a traveling lawyer who is just showing up at your house.

It’s first impressions, that’s all. That stupid car makes a bad one, and that might be unfair, but it is certainly true.

Last edited 1 month ago by Mayor McZombie
ADDvanced
ADDvanced
1 month ago

Imma be a broken record for a hot minute, but I never understood the point of Smart/IQs even existing. If your ONLY metric for a car is city parking in the smallest possible spots, sure, ok, I GUESS BRO, but for literally any other thing it’s not a very good vehicle.

Best tiny vehicle is 1st gen Honda Insight 5spd. I will die on that hill. Aluminum chassis, VTEC (yo), and a hybrid system that basically lasts forever if you do a deep discharge once a year and grid charge every few months. Parts are easy to find, community is good, and oh yeah you get like 55-65mpg and can cruise at 70-80mph, dual airbags, and oh right 5spd manual so it’s enjoyable to drive!

Good riddance IQ.

Last edited 1 month ago by ADDvanced
Nlpnt
Member
Nlpnt
1 month ago
Reply to  ADDvanced

I owned a manual Yaris for 12 years and had none of the mechanical problems. Also, factory cruise control.

Tj1977
Member
Tj1977
1 month ago

My partner bought a Yaris (two door hatch, base model) in 2009 brand new. Here we are closing in on 285,000…and it’s needed two water pumps and a new radiator. I’m just now replacing front struts (that I don’t think have ever been replaced) and only because I noticed they’re in poor shape, the ride hasn’t suffered at all.

This is even after hitting a deer that obliterated the right front cosmetically…and the cause of the need for a new radiator. I’ve been in charge of repairing mechanical things on in for the last ten years and it’s hands down one of the most reliable cars I’ve ever known. Other than the rust on the passenger side rear quarter panel, she plans on driving in into the ground. Even with the automatic she gets 30mpg.

I wish it had cruise, and I’ve researching how to add factor cruise from a wrecked Yaris. It doesn’t seem to be that hard, just fiddly more than anything.

But seriously, I don’t know why people would be an iQ over a Yaris.

Albert Ferrer
Member
Albert Ferrer
1 month ago

But not quite as clever.

My Other Car is a Tetanus Shot
Member
My Other Car is a Tetanus Shot
1 month ago
Reply to  Nlpnt

The Yaris was built for world markets that needed Toyota Hilux-like durability, but in a densely populated city. Which made for an uninspiring and low-rent vehicle, but it lasted a long time under harsh use.

The iQ was seemingly designed as a city car first and foremost to be used under gentler conditions in the developed world.

Albert Ferrer
Member
Albert Ferrer
1 month ago

I believe the Yaris was specifically designed with Europe in mind. Then sold in other markets.

Vanagan
Member
Vanagan
1 month ago
Reply to  ADDvanced

Insights were underrated for sure. Prius took the lead easily in the 2000’s, but those first gens are nice.

But I would prefer a nice Fit as my choice.

Albert Ferrer
Member
Albert Ferrer
1 month ago
Reply to  ADDvanced

Have you seen old European streets? Or never mind Japan. Some places need clever packaging inside a small container.

Although it is true that standard B-segment car will do almost as well while being “more car”.

Manwich Sandwich
Member
Manwich Sandwich
1 month ago
Reply to  ADDvanced

Best tiny vehicle is 1st gen Honda Insight 5spd. I will die on that hill.”

I shall join you on that hill and die with you!

ADDvanced
ADDvanced
1 month ago

Fair! They seem like a practical vehicle for a country with very small streets.

I guess what I meant to say was, “I never understood why they were ever imported to the United States”.

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