Welcome back to Shitbox Showdown, arguably the best way to start your morning. Today we’re looking at two all-weather Japanese wagons, cars that will get you and your stuff wherever you need to go, and then back again. But first, let’s take a look at how yesterday’s entirely irrational battle went.
I guess nobody wanted to deal with the mold in the 380SEC, as the 924 has shuffled its way to victory. It’s a bit of a shame as those AMG parts are worth a mint, but that’s just the way the game is played. Anyway, large swaths of America are about to get their shit rocked by Jack Frost, so let’s bolt on some snow tires and see which practical AWD car can pull us out of this mess.
2004 Subaru Outback – $2,000
Engine/drivetrain: 2.5-liter flat-four engine, five-speed manual gearbox, all-wheel-drive.
Location: Antioch, California
Odometer reading: 216,492 miles
Runs/drives? Yes.
Is the Subaru Outback a car to blame for killing low-riding wagons in America, or a car to praise for saving wagons in America by lifting them up? The right answer depends on your personal beliefs, but the way this is even a question suggests the impact of this car was monumental. This is a second-generation Outback and while not mechanically perfect, it should take just about everything you need to your campsite.
Under the hood sits a 2.5-liter flat-four engine that’s known for being a bit shit. Cooling system issues and external head gasket leaks often conspire to keep these things off the road, so owning an EJ253 can often be a labor of love. Still, at least it’s hitched to a five-speed manual gearbox and all-wheel-drive. On the plus side, this Outback has recently had its timing belt done, but on the minus side, it failed smog.
On the outside, this Outback looks fairly clean, with just a mark on the rear bumper to detract from the gleaming blue paint. Even the headlights look fairly clear, an uncommon sight on vehicle this old. Then again, I’ll likely need a few more pixels to determine exactly how well-kept this Subaru is.
Moving to the interior of the Outback, the good news continues. The driver’s seat is in great shape, with none of the unsightly splits that can come from years of sliding across the bolster. The dash plastics and carpets look well-kept, and although the wood trim is egregiously fake, it’s still brighter than black plastic.
1991 Honda Civic Wagon RT4WD – $1,750
Engine/drivetrain: 1.6-liter four-cylinder engine, six-speed manual gearbox, all-wheel-drive.
Location: [Redacted]
Odometer reading: 130,412 miles.
Runs/drives? You bet.
[Update June 30, 2023: The real owner of this vehicle has chimed in and we learned that this car wasn’t actually for sale. The listing was a scam of some kind or maybe something even worse, like doxxing. We’ve removed location details.]
I bet you didn’t expect to see one of these things today. Upon first glance, the Civic Wagon RT4WD is a weird artifact of Honda history. It doesn’t seem to fit into any traditional Civic pattern. However, think of this as the CR-V’s daddy, the forerunner of a car that helped permanently reshape American roads.
Under the skin, this patinated Civic packs something even a brand new Type R doesn’t – all-wheel-drive. Its 1.6-liter D16 four-cylinder engine puts power through a six-speed manual gearbox to all four wheels, an anomaly for American-market Civics. Also, that six-speed manual is really a five-speed in daily use. First is an ultra-low granny gear for when you need greater torque manipulation. Neat, right?
On the outside, this Civic Wagon shows evidence of a life well-lived. The clearcoat is flaking, dents abound, and the left front fender is a completely different color from the baby blue paintwork, but the California weather means that the bodywork looks free of rust.
Unfortunately, the seller hasn’t included any pictures of the interior, so we have no idea what shape the cloth upholstery or interior panels are in. West coast sunshine probably hasn’t been the kindest to the plastics, but who knows? At this point, it’s probably easier to expect nothing and potentially be delightfully surprised.
So, here we are, two very different Japanese wagons that put power to all four wheels. One has a longitudinal layout and a legendary name, the other packs a certain joie de vivre along with a granny gear. As ever, choose wisely.
(Photo credits: Craigslist sellers)
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The better choice is probably the Subaru, but for the price, I’d risk it with the Honda. Much more character and probably just as good in the snow as the Outback. I’d be so tempted to rattlecan the odd fender, just can’t decide what color I’d go with. Red and name it “General Maintenance”?
I kinda like the mismatched panel on the Civic, makes it look rowdy. Would definitely get a repaint on the rest, but would see if they would be willing to keep that panel in gray and start calling the car Frank Stein. Also, even a roughly handled Honda will keep going forever with just a basic amount of love and attention.
(Adam, the actual name of Dr Frankenstein’s monster, is lame as hell and should be rightly ignored)
I’ve owned three ancient-by-now Hondas, and one reasonably recent Subaru. Despite my outdated yardstick, I’ll take the Honda.
Real-time everytime.
Well, first I live in Alabama and I do what all sensible southerners do in the snow, I drive in my two wheel drive vehicle on my bald tires. Well, I would if I actually went out driving in the snow, but I prefer sitting in the house after raiding the local grocery store of all of their bread and milk so I can make my milk sandwiches, knowing that I will not starve with my bounty over the two days it takes for the snow to melt off and the roads to get back to normal.
Second, that Civic is pretty damn cool even with the damage to the paint and the few minor dents.
Subaru all day long… I’m Bias… I race a Forester.
https://youtu.be/3myTUYwwSDs
That’s pretty quick for a Fozzy! Does it have the 4.44 gears?
Bone Stock 2004 Forester XT yep 4.44 gears
Hemi Guy cuts off two guys in the staging lane to get up beside me then tells me I’m an easy mark. Normally I would pedal it as to not completely embarrass him but after that comment I wasn’t pulling punches.
Back in 2015 I almost bought one of those Civic wagons. It was between that and a 1982 Mercedes 300D. I saw the 300D first, and it was cheaper, and then the guy lowered the price to LESS than I offered, so I took it and never looked at the Civic. I kind of wish I had though, because any time I look for them, I can’t find anything in a price range I can justify.
I had a 1st generation Subaru Outback, and it was easily one of the worst cars I ever had. Ended up having to replace the transmission within a week of buying it, then found out it had a massive oil leak that could have easily been fixed while the transmission was out, but the (very crappy) shop didn’t catch it, so I had to pull the transmission myself anyway to fix it. Changed the oil once it was all back together and took it for a test drive, and after only a couple miles, it died. Started it back up, and what’s that sound? Rod knock.
At that point I gave up on it completely and sold it for enough to buy a 1991 Escort, which was one of the most reliable cars I ever owned.
The choice is easy, give me the Civic Wagon.
Honda over Subaru any day. How the fuck is this even a question?
The only Subaru worth buying is the Forester because of the giant sunroof it has. Otherwise, no reason to put up with a shitty boxer engine.
Honda at its best vs Subaru at its worst. I mean, COME ON, the voting shouldn’t be this close 😀
This is definitely one where neither is the best option for me, I do not care for either of these. I love the idea of an outback, but haveing known too many people who had myriad issues with them, I have no desire to even touch one let alone buy it, but man it looks clean for the age. In the end, I had to go civic though because although it is less clean, it has half the miles, and a powertrain that doesn’t insist that oil and coolant are meant to mix. So the civic is less likely to strand me. Maybe.
If that’s a genuine Burberry scarf – its worth more than the car
Seeing the comment about the 2.5 Subaru engine being junk makes me nervous. My wife really wanted a Subaru and so we bought a 2022 Crosstrek 6 months ago. It of course also has a 2.5 boxer engine. AND it has a CVT transmission. I’ve read that even though the manufacture claims the fluid in them is good for 150k, that is Bullshit and it should actually be changed every 30k. I hope Subaru has worked out the bugs in these things….
Not saying you won’t have issues, but the 2.5 in this outback shares nothing but it’s displacement with yours.
My wife also wanted a Subaru and we bought a Forester.
It has the new 2.5 engine, that isn’t closely related to the 2.5 mess in my Outback. Instead it’s closely related to the 2.0 that blew itself up at highway speeds in my FR-S.
The engine in your wife’s Crosstrek is completely different. Subaru put that terrible EJ engine in absolutely everything for years and years despite its well-known proclivity for destroying head gaskets which then cannot be replaced without pulling the entire motor, but they’ve given it up in all of their road cars at this point. The 2022 Crosstrek uses an FB-series engine, which doesn’t have that problem. Mind you, they kept sticking that horrible EJ in their cars for so long after the problems with it became known that a lot of people are just soured on the whole brand at this point.
I’m going to guess that at the age and mileage of the Subaru the head gaskets have been done or they lucked out. I’ve had Subaru’s of that era so I’ve got a comfort level with them that I don’t have with a 30 year old Honda. I’ll take the larger newer vehicle with more standard safety features.
I’m guessing they got done at around 100,000 miles and then the replacements blew out at around 200,000, and that’s why the car is for sale.
I picked the Subie but it kinda nda feels sacrilegious to use a California car for a winter beater in the rust belt.
One of these is a bottomless pit of engine-out repairs which exceeded even the highest imagined value of the car four repairs ago.
The other is a Honda.
Doing the work myself isn’t that bad. I have a spare car and an open garage bay so I can do it over time.
I considered selling it last year since the ridiculous used car prices had it valued at what I had paid for it in 2014. But then I would have been shopping for a replacement in the same silly market.
I’m not a big fan of either, but I’d always rather deal with mechanicals than cosmetics. Give me the Subie.
Subie. I love the styling of this generation and if it’s made it 200k already it’ll probably keep going.
At 200k it’s probably due for another engine-out head gasket replacement, that is if they’re not already blown. $20 says they are, and that’s why the seller is getting rid of this otherwise decent-looking wagon.
I’ll take the Civic. Never see them with the AWD, whereas the Subarus are everywhere
My buddy had an ‘03 Outback that the engine seized on about an hour from home. I rescued it in my ‘79 C10, but I remember was how much of a bitch it was to remove the driveshafts so I could dolly it home. For that reason alone, I’m choosing Civic.
The picture of the Civic outside of the dealership makes it look like a sad puppy kicked out of the yard. yet it still appears to be a rather beat down old girl even with the filters on. That being said, with the winter storm in the midwest, I would offer alternatives. Florida cars are scary right now due to floods, but this avalanche seems like a steel if it runs. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/0d53693f-2e57-4644-b537-21d391634a2d/
As much as “barely failed smog” is a red flag in the Subaru ad, the Honda having no interior photos is also a red flag, even though it passed emissions.
I’d be tempted to look at the Honda if I were local, but I’d be tempted to buy the Subaru.
There are some ‘CA Emissions’ states where that Subaru would be exempt from smog testing. You could drive it in for its annual inspection with the check engine light on and still pass.
Heck, my state is ending emissions testing, so I could just wait it out until July.
Emission testing? (Laughs in Kansan.) Kei car? Motor swap of any kind? Absolutely should not be on the road under any circumstance? As long as you pay your registration fee kansas don’t give a single fuck.
Had to go Outback. I love the Civic, but the last time I looked into owning one I found that they were rare in their day and parts availability may be an issue. I think it’s an interesting car, but not interesting enough to get frustrated every time I need to change a part.
As for the jacked up wagons, don’t blame Subaru. They had the Outback right beside it’s normal-height Legacy twin on dealer lots even for a generation beyond the one listed. Buyers apparently chose.
There’s a commenter here that mentioned the term “Subaruing” for people that continue to dump money into a Subaru for nontrivial fixes like the head gaskets. This Outback looks like the very definition of that term.
Maybe I missed it in the write-up, but as a bonus, the Subaru comes with a set of winter tires too. Wonder if those are mounted on the true factory Outback alloys – those currently on it are 2nd-gen Impreza/WRX wheels (so guess this is an entry into the “Cars Should Only Ever Use Wheels From Their Own OEM” category too).
I may be doing that with my Outback. After the second or third time pulling the engine, I guess it becomes routine.
I had to pull it for the throw out bearing… then again for the throw out bearing and a stainless sleeve for the transmission snout that had been torn up by the replacement throw out bearing. Then again for the head gaskets (it did make it easier to do the timing belt out of the car, I guess).
I can’t really replace it with a newer AWD manual wagon because they no longer exist. I’ll be pulling the motor out of this thing regularly until the road salt takes it.
The 2017 manual Golf Alltrack SE that recently replaced my money-pit 2003 Outback would beg to differ.
I also have a 2017 Forester 6 speed, so when the Outback (’09) finally calls it quits I’ll probably inherit that and my wife will get the new car.
The closest thing we have to a pre-nup is that she gets the new car and I get a normal car and a fun car. My last three daily drivers have been her hand-me-downs, including the Outback. If it weren’t for that agreement, I’d have a yard full of David Tracy level shitboxes and she’d have to get up an hour early each morning just to wander around trying to find a car that will start.
This is very true. I looked at several Subaru’s of that era in that price range. All either needed the engine removed for significant work (head gaskets) or a new engine. To someone willing to invest their own time to do the work, that Subaru may be a good deal.
It’s not that big a job, despite needing the motor removed. OK.. it was shitty for me in New England because of road salt. The down side of the stupid horizontal configuration Subaru loves it that the valve covers are low in the vehicle – getting splashed by all the road garbage. I think I had like 2 or three valve cover fasteners (all on the driver’s side for some reason) that simply would not come out of the heads. I think I may have had to drill them out but I probably blocked it out of my mind like that camping trip with Father McNulty.
Luckily for me, I’ve owned an engine stand since the mid-90’s (that one is still in my parents’ basement with a Nissan CA block bolted to it – but I now have 2 more) and have had an engine hoist (yes, I removed that iron-block CA engine without a hoist in my younger, stronger days and walked around hunched-over for a week) since I went to do my SR swap on my 240SX in 2006.
If you’re going to work on your own projects, tools and indoor space are, IMHO, the most important things you can acquire. I will not take on a project that I do not have covered space for.
Outback, because the Honda’s a holy grail made of unobtainium!
Oof, Subaru’s in general, rule the roads up here in Montucky, but I am a Honda fan 1st, so Honda it is. And it only has 130 thousand miles, still has many miles to go.
Man, I really wanted to go with the Civic, because a D16 with only 130k is barely getting started. But… where Thomas sees a “life well-lived”, I see a car that’s been punished pretty hard during those 130k miles, and probably hasn’t been maintained very well.
On the other hand, that “unreliable” Subaru 2.5 has somehow managed close to twice those miles, likely owing to better maintenance. I’ll take that one and deal with the smog problem, thanks.
Don’t worry the post is full of lies this info was taken from a Craigslist post someone made to dox me https://youtu.be/jJG8Zmxk51U
Proof I’m the owner subscribe help me out I’m trying to get the author of this blog to at least shout my YouTube channel out since the info is from a post again meant to dox me lol