In The Manchurian Candidate, an American soldier is brainwashed by Chinese intelligence and becomes a sleeper agent for that country’s communist government. If only they’d have known then that the less lethal and more profitable path would be to start a social network and fly cars to influencers.
There’s a big feature out that talks about how American consumers are being persuaded to desire cheap Chinese cars by American influencers, and on a platform created by China no-less. Is that weird? I’ve been using The Morning Dump to influence you to believe that it’s the “Decade of the Hybrid.” You know who also agrees? Chinese automakers.
General Motors CEO Mary Barra is the highest paid automotive exec in Detroit, which makes sense when you look at the stock price and the company’s overall performance. She can’t have the job forever, and GM left a big hint as to who is going to replace her. Don’t worry, it’s not me.
Across town, Ford makes a lot of hybrids, but it can’t make trucks fast enough to keep up with demand. In fact, it can barely make trucks at all.
‘The Second I Mention A Chinese Car, The Videos Skyrocket’
Every automaker is trying to use influencers to convince people to buy their cars. This is nothing new. Six years ago, a typical launch for a car in the United States was 90% journalists and maybe 10% influencers. Many of the launches today have whole days just devoted to influencers, and the split is closer to 50/50.
It’s a good strategy. I find the traditional journalists at launches are the first to the bar, the last to the briefing, and produce nothing more than a mostly replaceable bit of copy published with manufacturer photos. The influencers grind. They produce reels! They post to Instagram stories! It’s far more interactive. I have way more respect for that kind of hustle than I do for sclerotic modern automotive journalism. I also think it often creates more value for the automaker that forked over the money to bring people on a trip.
In that context, this Bloomberg Businessweek feature titled “TikTok Makes Americans Want Chinese EVs They Can’t Have” shouldn’t be that surprising or controversial. Isn’t that what everyone does? Just by virtue of being younger and newer, these companies are embracing social media.
The Beijing Motor Show is going on right now, and there are a bunch of influencers (and journalists) there on various automaker trips. We were invited by a Chinese automaker to go, but couldn’t make it work because of timing [Ed Note: Yes, we were invited by a Chinese automaker to go to China to cover Chinese cars that we cannot buy in the U.S. -DT]. Also, they were suddenly more interested in bringing Canadians because Canada is getting Chinese EVs first.
There’s nothing outrageous in this piece, but it’s interesting to see it laid out this way:
Richard Benoit flew to Alaska a little more than a year ago to test-drive a slate of China’s newest electric vehicles, shipped onto US soil to dazzle online car influencers like him. Sitting in the driver’s seat of a sky-blue Chery iCar 03, Benoit marveled at the SUV’s roomy interior, widescreen digital display with built-in karaoke and jaw-dropping price tag: $24,000. “Now I understand why they don’t want these to come to America,” he said in a video he posted on YouTube. “This is insane.”
Titled “I drove the cheap Chinese cars that are illegal in the USA. Now I know why,” the video has since racked up nearly 2 million views. Benoit says his American subscribers can’t get enough of the sleek, affordable vehicles from Chinese brands including BYD, Xiaomi and Zeekr that flood their social media feeds—yet aren’t for sale in the US. “The second I mention a Chinese car, the videos skyrocket,” he says, when reached by phone from his home in Massachusetts. “Americans want these cars—they just do.”
Obviously, we recently drove a bunch of Chinese cars in America at a press event and the takeaway was that they’re familiar and pretty good. The market is young and Chinese consumers are very tech-forward, so there’s a lot of fun ideas in these cars that look interesting to Americans. Ford’s CEO famously didn’t want to give his borrowed Chinese car back.
Additionally, China has heavily subsidized battery development and has massive overcapacity issues and differing standards that makes Chinese cars appear cheaper than they really are, or ought to be (to say nothing of credible reports of problematic labor practices). A $10,000 Chinese car could easily be a $20,000 Chinese car here. Plus, these companies usually aren’t under the same pressure to be profitable as other automakers.
It feels strange, though. The fact that a lot of this is happening on TikTok, which is a platform created by Chinese company ByteDance, is strange. Even if influencers aren’t being paid directly by carmakers to talk about their products (which, if disclosed, is totally legal and fine), there’s a sort of secondary payment to these influencers as they get compensated by the platforms themselves for engagement. I haven’t seen any evidence that Chinese automakers are forking over cash to boost this content, but I wouldn’t be surprised, either. One of the companies doing this is DCar, which is itself a spinoff of ByteDance, the company that created TikTok.
The oddest bit is that, due to tariffs that go back to the Biden Administration, bringing Chinese-built cars here seems remote, no matter what the appeal might be. Americans don’t so much crave cheap cars as they crave nice cars that happen to be affordable. Some of the interest in Chinese cars is probably due to the fantasy of having their nian gao and eating it, too. It’s possible that Chinese automakers are planning for a future where those rules are relaxed following the planned meeting between President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping.
Either way, I do think that Forrest Jones, who often features Chinese cars, makes a good point in the kicker of that piece:
He knows showcasing them in America is controversial but thinks competition is healthy for the industry. “Even if we don’t get them here,” Jones says, “I would like consumers to know what’s out there and have that ammunition to demand more from the brands we do have access to.”
This is absolutely correct. American brands aren’t going to get better until they acknowledge what makes Chinese cars appealing that isn’t related just to cost.
China Is Excited About Hybrids, Too!
It’s the “Decade of the Hybrid” y’all! Even China, which builds all those fancy EVs all those influencers seem to love, has a strong yearning for hybrid cars. What’s happening here?
Nikkei Asia explains that hybrids got overlooked by Chinese automakers due to the lack of subsidies, which gave an advantage to Japanese carmakers with more hybrid experience:
“The cost of our HEV solution is nearly the same as our plug-in EV solution,” Wu Jian, an executive at GAC, said in a 2021 interview. “But when the price tags are similar, consumers are more willing to buy plug-in cars that are not only eligible for a green license plate but also exempt from purchase taxes,” he added, referring to the registration plate that offers perks such as exemptions from certain traffic restrictions.
All of a sudden, though, Chinese automakers are showing new hybrids. What’s going on?
The shift has been driven by reduced state tax incentives for EVs and plug-in hybrids starting 2026, as well as a regulatory change requiring automakers in China to reach an average fuel economy of 3.3 liters per 100 km in 2030, said Yale Zhang, managing director of Shanghai-based consultancy Automotive Foresight.
“If there are still fuel-powered cars in China in the future, they will largely be HEVs,” Zhang said. “I forecast that carmakers will stop launching traditional internal combustion engine models, starting next year.”
Electric cars for some, hybrids for others, and tiny Chinese flags for everyone else.
Sterling Anderson’s 40 Million Reasons To Stay At GM
It’s been a while since America had a big and tall automotive exec. Was the last one Lutz? It might have been Lutz. Or that one guy, Reid Landman. Either way, the next one might be Sterling Anderson. Why?
The Detroit Free Press noticed something interesting in the company’s executive compensation filings:
GM’s board also approved an elaborate, one-time-only new hire award package for an executive that media reports have said is on a short list to replace Barra ― Sterling Anderson.
Anderson’s hiring package totaled $40 million, a one-time deal that would be paid out through 2027. After the deal’s terms conclude on July 29, 2027, Anderson will receive a regular compensation more in line with other GM executives, according to GM.
Basically, Anderson has to meet certain goals and stick around at GM to keep the money. This could be meaningful or it could just be something normal. Maybe he’s just doing a great job. Or, maybe, they don’t want him to get poached. Last time I suggested this a GM spokesperson, unprompted, emailed to let me know this was all speculation. Let’s see if that happens again!
‘It’s A Heap Of A Mess’ Says Ford Dealer
As a Texan, the first two signs of spring were the arrival of fields of bluebonnets and Truck Month. I think this Truck Month might have been ruined, as a dealer points out to Automotive News:
Chuck Anderson Ford, less than 20 miles from Ford’s F-150 plant in Kansas City, Mo., usually starts Truck Month with about 70 of the pickups. This year, it had only nine.
“It’s a heap of a mess,” Nick Anderson, the dealership’s general manager, told Automotive News. “Outside of COVID, I’ve never seen an F-150 shortage like this.”
Ford dealers around the U.S. are grappling with an undersupply of a vehicle that’s a reliable profit pillar and the leader in an intensely competitive segment. The automaker is scrambling to boost production but has signaled that inventory levels may not stabilize until the second half of the year.
None of this is a secret. Ford has said in filings that the two fires at its aluminum provider in New York is going to slow down supply until later this year. Still, the extent of it seems to be profound.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
Coachella sounds like it was a party this year, and there’s no one I’d have rather seen than the immeasurably great Kacey Musgraves. Watch her as she sings “Uncertain, TX” and sways along to a Tejano accordion. I love Tejano accordion.
The Big Question
Have you been exposed to influencers peddling Chinese cars? Has it worked? [Ed Note: I also want to ask: Are you convinced that Chinese cars are, as a whole, better than U.S. ones? -DT].
Top graphic images: TikTok; YouTube; BYD
I haven’t seen any influencers peddling chinese vehicles because I don’t really use any social media platforms. However, a few weeks ago I was in central Illinois for work and spotted a Great Wall Motors Tank 300 driving around. I didn’t notice what type of plate was on it, but it looked like an american plate.
China certainly dominates the US in one aspect, and that is it’s naming conventions for trucks and SUVs.
Tank? BIG DOG? Love it. They understand the target market.
You want to quickly seize that
frenchfryopen parking space, the Seagull is your car.I wouldn’t say China in general, it would be anything Great Wall Motors in particular makes.
I’ve seen Kacey live! She’s a great performer. I’ve always loved her music and she’s one of the early artists my wife and I bonded over. We have very different taste in music but there’s a real universal appeal in her songwriting and relatively stripped down performances. I believe we have all of her records on vinyl, and at risk of sounding like a hipster I do like her earlier stuff the best. Pageant Material is my favorite record of hers but I know that’s a spicy take…
I just watched Kasey last night and was going to revoke your status as a true Texan if you didn’t feature her sometime this week or next.
Line dancing to such a dour song seems odd to me.
Given Kasey’s luck with live, it really fits. Unfortunately.
Good thing I mostly (actively) ignore influencers because…yep.
I’ve not been exposed to influencers peddling Chinese cars, but I have been exposed to UK car reviewers/journalists who Chinese car makers have tried to buy off as if they were a cheap floozy like LinusTechTips is in the consumer electronics space. JayEmm did a video on (I think) BYD trying to prewrite scripts for him at a media event he was invited to about a year ago.
Combine that with the nonsense that Autopian was hit with in the past couple of weeks; and it has soured me on the prospect of some of them just as thoroughly as the bullshit Vinfast was trying to pull when it entered the American market doing the same thing a couple years ago.
There are so many legitimate sites around the world that you can get honest reviews.
Many of those products from China are, genuinely, good – but clearly not all. Just the same with US-made vehicles (cough, cough, Stellantis)
The notorious one I’m aware of is Jaecoo with Jonny Smith. I can’t believe Jonny did that spot. I don’t like when these people sell their soul for, in his case, two quid.
If only some other nearby country could produce aluminum and export it to the US to save US manufacturing jobs…
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
I thought they fixed the lithium ion battery problem.
Why should they?
Sorry, we just can’t find our aluminum stockpile at the moment. I’ll go check under the potash and softwood lumber stockpiles.
Sure, sure. You say that, but you’re probably going to go to Timmy’s and have a poutine donut and laugh at all the idiocy going on south of the border.
Tim’s is about as Canadian as Gretzky these days. I worked there as a teen (back when it was still cash only) and now I can’t remember the last time I willingly bought something there.
I understand what you’re saying, but man, Timbits are irresistible to me regardless of who or what owns Tim Hortons.
I think whatever addictive ingredients are added to Timbits are also in Girl Scout Thin Mints.
Wait, this is vehicle Web site. Normally aspirated engines are best! Batteries everywhere! Miata!
I agree… Tim Hortons sucks. So many better local places for both coffee, doughnuts or sandwiches.
Have you been exposed to influencers peddling Chinese cars?
No. I spend very little time on the internet, though, aside from this website. I read a piece a few years ago about the joy of missing out and it stuck with me. I have embraced the JOMO ethos with respect to most social media, technology, and pop culture. I don’t think I am missing out on much, but I guess I would have no way of knowing. I have found that “ignorance is bliss” gets truer every year.
I have always semi-joked about starting an Amish-oid cult that only allows technology available in 1998 – I’m starting to think I should make that happen. Anyone want to join? We have Mario Kart 64. And Goldeneye. And 30 channel cable TV. And, since I am an early adopter of ’90s technology, broadband internet, AOL instant messenger, and flip phones with poor reception. Oh, and cult rules require you to bring your own snacks and beer, and provide 10% of said snacks and beer as a tithe to the cult leader (aka me – I will come up with a cool title later).
Are you convinced that Chinese cars are, as a whole, better than U.S. ones?
No? My impression is that China has prioritized volume over quality and economic sustainability. The wording of this question seems to imply that Chinese vehicle superiority is a commonly held belief, but I don’t know anyone who shares this view.
How can I join your cult and will you have Kool-Aid?
You can join my cult instead. Though we don’t have any Kool-Aid. Too much sugar.
In my cult, you’ll have a low-carb diet so you’ll avoid diabeetus.
The only exception to that will be stuff like doughnuts… where we will only go high quality… none of that Tim Hortons crap.
And in my cult, we have internet, but no cable TV. We replaced cable with a digital antenna… and combine that with Crave.ca and Gem.cbc.ca
The gist of your comment reminds me of a Douglas Adams quote:
I’ve come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
That quote is very accurate. For me it is more like 25 than 35, though.
I don’t think I am only acting curmudgeonly, though, at least with respect to social media. A lot of social media involves taking normal human experiences (i.e. relationships and interactions with other people that can be fulfilling but also awkward and difficult) and replacing them with superficial, low-quality, low-stakes versions of these experiences. I don’t think that is good for people or society in general.
I would like to join your cult and subscribe to your newsletter
Can I get to play Ogre Battle 64 instead? If so I am in. Not sure anyone here will get my reference for one of my favorite games.
TBQ
Yes I have, I remember when Rich Rebuilds had his Chinese car experience that year plus back, and have seen other videos on the subject. What bothers me most about it and the VAST majority of coverage, is that it is always far more tightly controlled than I feel is reasonable for a truly objective review. The reviews are extremely clever, targeting the para-social relationships most have with their favorite influencers, and weaponize it to get the best possible coverage of their vehicles.
These reviews focus on neat quirks and features, manufacturer quoted power and range numbers, and pricing that is based on a lot of factors that make them ballpark at best. I have said this before, and I will say it again, but these Chinese EVs are built largely with dubious labor practices, with range numbers that are entirely divorced from reality, and with subsidies from the CCP and Chinese provinces so large that they absolutely should be considered unfair in a competitive market.
The reason these reviews frustrate me to no end, is that most if not all influencers and journalists take a marketing copy sheet and recite the numbers verbatim without a shred of skepticism. CLTC numbers are a fantasy that are widely accepted to be 30-40% higher than EPA numbers, which are already often 5% higher than reality. Not once can I recall a US based influencer calling this into question. Chinese market ultra cheap EVs could never be sold in the US because they wouldn’t meet crash requirements (BYD Seagull for example). Couple this with the highly aggressive sales tactics, 0-Mile Used EV credits, and numerous reports of big Chinese companies using slave-like and forced labor, and you get a set of pricing that is both unrealistic in the US, and incredibly depressed from what should be possible.
So I think most of what I have said answers this, but to be clear, many of these EVs are leaps and bounds closer to widely available legacy EVs than they are stated at. I do think in many ways, they are somewhat more advanced, I have no doubt that BYD products are better than a Mach-E or Ariya for example. The problem is there is zero US-based independent comparisons comparing what is available to US consumers to Chinese EVs. Their claims are unverified and optimistic and their products are built with unethical labor, and their business practices have been widely reported as being fraudulent. Despite ALL of this, influences and many journalists do not report any of this, but will happily take a free vacation to go play around with weird cars and reap millions of views because challenging these manufacturers would get them blacklisted.
The reviews from the rest of the world from reputable magazines and car review sites speak for themselves.
Having an idjot on TikTok would just make it look worse, to me.
I keep hearing that Capitalism is an all or nothing thing. I keep being told that Capitalism Über alles and anything less is evil socialism or communism, so using influencers to sell products seems like just capitalism. (snark?)
Real capitalism has never been tried.
The Ferengi entered the chat
Good shows indeed.
WTF is an influencer?
Had a person tell me they were an influencer while I was on vacation last year. I asked them that question and their reply was “Companies give me stuff and I make videos to get people to but their stuff.”
My response was “So you’re a combination of a beggar and a wh*re.”
They sulked away from me after that.
I think they were called “Celebrity Endorsement” when TV stars in the 1950s pushed cigarettes etc.
Maybe you need a bold Marlboro Red to help refresh that memory!
I’ll take “things that didn’t happen” for $500, Alex.
Yeaaaaah, lots of people–especially men of a certain age—romanticize that George-Carlin-style interaction/social commentary, but rarely have the balls to pull it off themselves. I doubt this happened.
I agree. Also, if the story is real, it just means they are a complete ass. “I was a dick to a total stranger for no reason and it made them sad!” *high fives self*
Right. There’s a whole lot of room between disapproving of a stranger’s work (which I think is reasonable) and calling them “a begggar and a wh*re.”
If this person isn’t creative or tactful enough to land somewhere in that zone, that says more about them than the other person.
It never ceases to amaze me how willing we are as a culture to accept or give credence to the views of someone who has done nothing but appear on a screen in front of us.
Like thinking a guy who played a successful businessman on TV was somehow qualified to be president of the US.
Apparently the lesson was not learned with Reagan.
Can’t fix stupid.
That’s God’s job…
I was thinking more of how many folks waited for Oprah to decide between Obama and Hillary back in 2008, or how many people seem to give a $£!% what George Clooney or Clint Eastwood think, but I suppose what you’re talking about is a similar effect.
If this really happened, you’re lucky they “sulked away” instead of giving your incredibly rude statement the response it deserved. Life isn’t a TV show and you’re not Larry David. Be nice to people.
Hotel manager here. Not a week goes by when I don’t get some sort of begging email from an “influencer” looking to “partner up for content”. I just dash off a politely generic “thanks, but no thanks” response.
Have you been exposed to influencers peddling Chinese cars? Has it worked?
What would constitute “working” in this reference? Am I supposed to buy one? Wait for one? Get on the mailing list of BYD for future product releases?
An influencer telling me about something I can’t buy is about as useless as a guy telling me how great Elle Macpherson is in the sack.
You’re not really the target audience.
But, like I said in an earlier comment, I get messages every week from friends and family who aren’t enthusiasts, but who see these influencer videos and wonder why we don’t/can’t get these cool cars. So people’s curiosity is piqued and there is lots of engagement on these videos.
As to the specific tactic:
The average modern, non-enthusiast consumer is rarely concerned with the composition or road-going aspects of a car. They’re more concerned with style, tech and space. These Chinese cars appear to have that…in spades. Meanwhile, Toyota’s dealerships are still selling cars that largely look like the boxes they came in, often for over sticker.
Speaking of price, these videos also project the explicit or implicit idea that they’d cost 33-50% less than anything you could buy stateside right now that was comparable. That’s alluring, too, especially in an economy where everything feels like it’s doubled in price.
What the Chinese automakers seem to be doing is engendering goodwill with American customers so that if and when their cars are allowed here, they’ll have a ready population of people willing to buy them. And if not, they’ll at least know the names and models; they won’t be completely foreign concepts.
Very much this.
North America exists in a bubble where the general conception of how things are is set circa the year 2000.
The world is a very non-Western place, and that non-Western world is growing both demographically and in relative economic power.
Example: The most popular smartphones in India are built by Vivo, Realme, and Xiaomi. Samsung comes fourth on the list. Apple doesn’t even place.
I suspect China will continue to chip away at legacy Japanese/Euro/American export automotive outposts in countries that have no indigenous automakers to protect.
If Chinese automakers get a some more recognition here via cheap influencer marketing, it’s not going to cost them much for that win. Play the long game of building up public perception even behind a tariff wall, and clean up in the meantime eating the lunch of the legacy automakers in the developing world.
It’s a good strategy.
I think Chinese vehicles would be successful if they came here, especially in the lower end of the market. Whether or not that would be a net benefit in the long term for US consumers is up for debate, but—as a tactic—the guerilla-style marketing that the Chinese automakers are doing here is brilliant.
I’d say the US attitude is more like the 60’s. We act like we are still 1/3 of the global economy instead of 15% (and dropping)
I haven’t been on most forms of what I consider to be mass market social media (FB, X, tik, IG) since Easter 2016. In terms of YouTube, I tend to watch people who put more substance and honesty into their content than most influencers. So, no, haven’t had any Chinese automakers pushed on me. Yet.
It’s amazing how many people have completely forgotten the Wal-Mart expansion strategy.
This describes the entirety of the Chinese domestic market, and the larger Chinese brands globally. Add in probable slave labor, conflict minerals, and data privacy concerns, there’s no way in hell I’d buy a Chinese vehicle. Problem is, there’s a ton of people who only care about driving a new car for the lowest price possible, nothing else matters.
The social contract of thinking about “us” vs “me” is definitely declining quickly.
“probable slave labor, conflict minerals, and data privacy concerns”
You realize US-branded cars use Chinese-made and labor – and in some cases were built entirely in China?
You realize that many things you already have in your home were produced with questionable labor practices?
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods-print?items_per_page=10&combine=china
You realize that the devices in you hands and your home are already being used to mine your data?
Those horses are long gone, the barn burned down ages ago…
I do the best I can to avoid those products. My newest car is a 2008 and all of my vehicles were built in the US (including the Toyota and BMW). I also buy USA manufactured parts/tools where I can in lieu of the cheapest option from Amazon.
And yes there are several Chinese built vehicles on the market today. Not buying one regardless of whose badge is on the front.
But if you dig a bit and look at the components in your “US-built” car, you’ll see a whole bunch of it came from China. Even something like a Bosch control unit…it may look German but if you open it up, guess where the circuit board—and everything on it—was made.
You’re correct that all automakers leverage inexpensive labor from Asia for at least some components, especially computer modules.
That doesn’t mean it’s not worth mitigating the impact of that and buying a car that’s as much made in the US as possible, if that’s important to you. It’s not a reason to adopt a defeatist attitude and say “Oh, well, guess there’s nothing you can do.” With a US-built car, at least some of the dollars to produce that product went into the US economy, as opposed to none.
So I see where RallyMerch is coming from.
This. In an ‘American’ car there’s often majority foreign content, and ‘American Built’ cars have a smaller but still significant amount. I’m not in any position to dictate where electronics, bearings, or castings are produced, but I can vote with MY wallet.
So I buy less, conserve what’s already been produced instead of buying new, and try to source domestically produced parts where able. As a nice side effect, I also save a ton of money by ignoring the Jones’s instead of trying to keep up with them.
Genuinely curious – what’s the point of this comment?
Because those practices are in use in things we own, we shouldn’t worry about it when it comes in Chinese cars?
Or is it trying to point out a perceived lack of integrity (caring about it in one context and not another)?
Maybe we should keep the focus on the actual problem (use of those practices).
The second one – Particularly folks who say “Oh, I don’t want to be monitored by my car” when the device in their pocket – which goes absolutely everywhere with them – is already monitoring their every step, transaction and social media post.
With a connected car you can’t leave the tracker at home.
How often do you leave the house without your phone?
Often. If you include not being within earshot while on my property (out in the shop) it’s about 50% of any given day.
Don’t forget the very important fact that China has artificially suppressed the value of the Yuan for years, making their exports far more cost effective to wealthy nations. It means that imports in China are disproportionately expensive, but it has set them up to be the greatest value manufacturing hub in the world.
100%. Not to mention import tariffs on almost everything to further favor domestic production.
Exactly. Geopolitics are incredibly complex and nuanced, so I do struggle to make hardline stances and statements, but it should be abundantly clear that China has been doing everything in their power to stack the deck in their favor wherever possible. I don’t blame them of course, it’s their prerogative to gain wealth and influence. But, they do it in highly deceptive, anticompetitive ways that should not be rewarded with tacit acceptance of Chinese goods into every country. I think universal tariffs are absolutely stupid, but tailored Chinese tariffs based on actual anti-competitive tactics such as on vehicles, can make a ton of sense.
I do blame them for doing unethical and anticompetitive things to put themselves on top.
The biggest advantage China has is the top down, extremely long term plan. Whereas the US has at most an 8 year cycle, functionally 4 years, with massive shifts in our long term roadmap each cycle.
Back to EVs, don’t forget about the several American-Chinese automotive partnerships where American automakers helped design, build, and mentor Chinese auto manufacturers. SAIC is a big one.
China’s biggest advantage is the ability to keep incentive spending “off book”. Local governments are issuing bonds this year for spending that occurred many years ago. People around here would get upset if their local politicians spent the entire budget for road maintenance and schools on supporting a money losing business owned by politically connected insiders.
The USA has more like a 2 year industrial policy cycle today.
US, Japanese, and European companies did help Chinese joint ventures learn how to design and make cars. That is largely in the past today which is why China dropped the requirement for foreign auto companies to partner with a local Chinese company.
That process happened in 3 steps:
2018 – EVs
2020 – Commercial vehicles
2022 – Passenger vehicles.
If you want to build an auto factory today in China and own it 100% you can. Tesla was the first to 100% own their Chinese auto factory.
Fair on the 2 year, and correct. I say 4 because of how much the administration impacts direction.
The partnership isn’t needed anymore since we already taught them what was needed and how to do it. Now it’s time to kill any foreign competition in the domestic market, and take over foreign markets where able. Same process as mechanical and electronics manufacturing.
Yes, they learned all they could from us and then kept learning and innovating on their own and passed us. (At least in segments deemed important in the future)
Chinese ICE cars aren’t great but that is no longer their focus.
Based on what I’ve seen at work, I completely disagree on surpassing us. They’re definitely up to speed, but nothing special other than the “low price”. Work just had a BYD Seagull on the teardown hoist last week.
Interesting. Anything specific that you didn’t like about the Seagull?
Also have you torn down a Chinese EV more similar to a US spec like the Seal or Sealion? The Seagull is a budget city car built to a budget.
What does the US manufacturing/processing market, and US tech companies have to do with this?
Need to recover some data on an old device? Perhaps a call to the NSA can help you out.
They’ll never get their hands on my old CD-ROM backups. And I know they didn’t get em from my computer cause I only had 26.1kbps dial-up back then! (fuck, I’m old).
26.1kbps?
Is that some kind of off-brand marathon-distance-rated 28.8kbps modem?
I recall a friend’s machine was running tape-drives, with a 300baud modem.
It was a 56k modem. But the phone lines in my rural area were so shit that 26.1 was the fastest connection speed I ever saw, not the 48k that a “56k” actually connects at.
I’ll add that I got that speed after upgrading to a hardware modem, previously I was pulling 21.6kbps.
I too remember the frustrations of having a 56k modem and 14k phone lines.
The old days of forums titled “56k stay away!”, warning you of the picture-heavy fate that awaited you.
There’s been a few times where I just hit the page to load and then went and watched a show or cooked something.
Not too long ago I was watching a video essay on the old internet or 90s or something and they were pulling up old forums and completely misinterpreted what that 56k warning meant. I really wish I could remember what it was, I paused the video to chuckle and remember how old I am.
Nope, and for the price yes, but not overall no.
I do everything in my power to avoid ‘influencers’ and my feeds have been mostly cooperative to that end, if anything ‘influencers’ endorsing anything would make me less likely to buy whatever they’re endorsing.
Do I think the Chinese government has a pro-Chinese automobile bias? Yes.
They have a 100% tariff on foreign made automobiles, and they subsidize the production of various products and provide effectively a safe haven for IP theft.
My policy with this stuff is pretty simple, I’m not a fan of tariffs, but equivalent tariffs make sense, preferably equal tariffs when applicable. I don’t get the anti tariff people who are A-OK with tariffs when they’re against us but not when they’re done in response to another country’s tariffs.
We need to get rid of BLANKET automotive tariffs (like the Chicken Tax) but I still think there is room for Tariffs against Chinese automakers so long as the Chinese government has a 100% Tariff on foreign made automobiles.
Frankly I think we need a developed nation standard on emissions and crash safety, and that would pave the way for international sales both ways.
China does not have a 100% tariff on US automobiles.
When China joined the WTO they set tariff rates on imported cars to 25%
That dropped to 15% in 2018 for all countries.
Rates increased to 40% later in the year just for the USA as part of the trade war
In 2020 they dropped back to 15% for the USA – same as everyone else
In 2025 they went back to 25% for the USA with a return to the trade war
As of today
China has a 25% tariff of the USA cars and 15% for other counties
The USA has a 25% tariff on Chinese ICE cars and 100% tariff on Chinese EVs.
China has a 25% base import tariff (a tax) + 17% VAT + 1-40% Consumption Tax. If you import a car worth more than $132K you pay an additional 10% luxury tax.
So up to 92%, my bad….
China is a long way from alone in applying VAT, pollution/consumption taxes, stamp duties, luxury car taxes etc. It happens in Europe, Asia, Australia etc and they apply regardless of the country of manufacture and they are paid directly by the consumer at the point of sale. Unlike tariffs, which are paid indirectly…
VAT and consumption taxes are also applied to domestically produced vehicles. They do not put an imported car at a competitive disadvantage.
VAT and Consumption Tax are just their equivalent of the varying sales tax seen in most US states…
I haven’t had any Chinese cars pushed because I’m not really in the target demo for a lot of these influencers. Even though they’re not available in the US (yet), I have to imagine a lot of American influencers have a global audience. Besides, Chinese automakers are clearly interested in showing the American public, and their rival American counterparts, what they’re all about.
Granted I don’t follow any influencers, but car websites blindly singing the praises of Chinese cars without ever even having seen one in person kinda feels like the same thing.
I have zero frame of reference for how good they are- I’ve obviously never driven one either and have only seen a small handful of them in Japan last time I was there, but if I had to guess, I’d probably wager they’re about on par with cars from any other country. Some are probably good, some are probably shit. I get that there’s a lot of dissatisfaction with the cars that are sold here in the US (and rightly so), but that doesn’t automatically make the ones we don’t get here better.
TBQ
Thankfully, no, I have no exposure to influencer in general.
No TikTok, no youtube, as much ad blocking as I can manage across all media.
Also, I think Chinese vs American is too broad a comparison. But most of what’s likely being pitched (very low cost EVs) is not going to be high on the quality scale.
I haven’t had Chinese cars pushed, but have had a huge number of running shoes and eMTBs from China pushed on my video feed (I watch a lot of running shoe and mountain bike reviews)
Any good Chinese running shoes? I haven’t explored that area (no social media so I miss most marketing lol) but I’d be willing to give some a shot. I’m a Brooks person and go through them fairly steadily lol.
Some have gotten good reviews, but I haven’t paid much attention because I really like trying shoes on. Local shop all the way for me.
Anyone willing to assert a blanket statement like this (or the reverse, to be fair) is someone not to be taken seriously.
I’m certainly willing to believe there are areas of vehicle development where Chinese government largesse and central planning has led to real world-class products. That does not mean I accept every lofty claim made by the manufacturers, or that I accept the idea that superiority in some subsets of EVs means the next HD truck I buy will be Chinese either.
Yeah, I have to think that was posed as a conversation starter rather than a literal question since it’s basically unanswerable (and DT knows better).
“…central planning…”
That phrase is so outdated it’s laughable.
There’s no central planning as regards manufacturing in China anymore – it’s Capitalism on Steroids.
Oh ok.
https://www.hinrichfoundation.com/research/article/fdi/china-auto-policies-playing-the-long-game
“EVs were listed as a priority project in the 10th Five Year Plan in 2001.”
“Central and local government support for EVs soon involved strategic planning, subsidies, emissions standards, EV infrastructure, limiting new ventures to EVs, access to foreign technology, and state-backed protectionism.”
“China’s auto sector benefited from long-term government policies, company strategies backed by the government or at least state-run finance, and favoritism toward Chinese firms.”
China’s pivot to EVs has been many years in the making and was not an organic development, but a conscious effort by the CCP to dominate the sector. The government does not literally need to direct the factory to produce X number of cars this month (although they do own several automakers directly) to centrally plan their automotive industry.
China isn’t run like an old‑school command economy anymore, but it’s not a free market. Companies might handle their own day‑to‑day decisions, but the CCP decides which industries matter, where money goes, and who gets support.
I find your statement extra weird in 2026. CCP control over auto and tech industries has clearly increased for years under Xi.
The “Central Planning” phrase – at least to me – implied the old system of “We’re going to make XX# widgets this year, and XX# of widgets next year, Comrades” And if it’s not in the plan, it doesn’t get done.
Yes, China decided EV production mattered with subsidies – So did the EU and the US. What’s the difference?
Meanwhile you imply the US Government doesn’t decide which industries matter?
Tax benefits, subsidies, tariffs and government spending seem to be accomplishing the same thing as the Chinese handing out cash – just in a more haphazard, minimally thought out, shorter-term, pay-to-play manner.
Indeed, any notion of superiority can only be truly viewed in retrospect.
Plenty of automotive publications heralded the ‘next great thing’ with shiny press cars, only to have the real-world examples disappoint under real-world conditions.
The GM X-cars were proudly proclaimed as ‘blows everyone into the weeds’ by C/D in 1979. They sure blew.
The Lexus LS400 actually lived up to the hype, as million mile examples attest.
I’ll give merit to Chinese automobiles when they have an honest track record of superiority in developed countries under real-world conditions.
I guess I don’t see anything new here. You could make this headline more generic to read: “Marketing Makes People Want Things They Can’t Have” and it would be universally applicable. People love to get worked up about “influencers” but this is just celebrity advertising with fewer barriers to entry.
I. AM. SO. READY. FOR. INFLUENCER-CULTURE. TO. DIE.
“Pitchmen” have been around for centuries, this is just our hellscape version.
Have I got some snakeoil for you.
YEP! There is rarely anything new under the sun. This make me think of the Lucile Ball Cigarette adds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP_bLYwXBpI
I don’t know… That sounds like it’s more of a Shelbyville idea.
What kind of snakeoil? Can it make my penis bigger and clear up this rash I have?
It’s really just this level of a hellscape version. A worse version is just around the corner.
Enjoy!
“Pitchmen” have been hired by companies because companies think they have a certain something that resonates w/public such as specialization in a subject, likeability, etc. “Influencers” are randos that give thumbs up/down, Roman Emperor-style, that for some reason swaths of the public decide are worth listening to/following. It boggles the f*cking mind.
It won’t. Influencer culture will continue if only to spite the rest of us.
Are influencers convincing people to buy $20k Chinese cars? Or are $20K cars convincing people to buy $20k cars?
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Car companies come out with desirable cheap cars and can’t build them fast enough but then don’t follow up with more products. Is it greed? Possibly, but this is the opening that Chinese manufacturers need to enter the market
The problem is the desirable cheap cars don’t make money, and global supply chain have huge cost swings that eat into the possible profits. Eventually automakers say screw it after costs balloon and sales stagnate. 1 Truck/SUV is several times more profitable than 10 economy cars, and people still buy them in spades year after year.
I went online to see how many new corollas vs 4runners within a few hundred miles of me and it was 6:100.
Bingo! Not to mention trim-flation. When you find a cheap car, it’s fully loaded
YES! MSPR $23K on lots $30K.
I can’t think of a cheap car that companies are struggling to met demand outside of the Trax.
The Maverick was supply limited for a time but Ford increased capacity twice to meet demand. Which pokes a hole in the theory that manufacturers are intentionally limiting supply of cheap new cars.
Not limiting supply as much as model variety. Where’s the pickup version of the Trax that they sell in other markets? Why don’t we get the Corolla wagon? Cheap cars sell well and many have already been designed for other markets but we get a very small selection of options
If we used or at least accepted Euro standards and reduced our import tariffs we would get more low volume cars from other markets.
To paraphrase the reviews posted here:
-Does it fulfill it’s purpose?
-Does it have all the electronic crap I want?
-Is it affordable?
If a $20k Chinese EV can answer yes to all 3, then it has won.
I don’t need an influencer to convince me that I want access to the best version of a product category that as a bonus is also the cheapest.
Honestly, you can just look to the EU to see Chinese market cars and get information from actual owners.
It’s much easier than wading into the shallow-end of the pool with influencers.
There are plenty of EU-based auto review channels on YT. Most are quite impressed by the Chinese EV offerings.
There’s also a lot of established well-regarded establishments that have (relatively) neutral reviews, teardowns, and test results.