In The Manchurian Candidate, an American soldier is brainwashed by Chinese intelligence and becomes a sleeper agent for that country’s communist government. If only they’d have known then that the less lethal and more profitable path would be to start a social network and fly cars to influencers.
There’s a big feature out that talks about how American consumers are being persuaded to desire cheap Chinese cars by American influencers, and on a platform created by China no-less. Is that weird? I’ve been using The Morning Dump to influence you to believe that it’s the “Decade of the Hybrid.” You know who also agrees? Chinese automakers.
General Motors CEO Mary Barra is the highest paid automotive exec in Detroit, which makes sense when you look at the stock price and the company’s overall performance. She can’t have the job forever, and GM left a big hint as to who is going to replace her. Don’t worry, it’s not me.
Across town, Ford makes a lot of hybrids, but it can’t make trucks fast enough to keep up with demand. In fact, it can barely make trucks at all.
‘The Second I Mention A Chinese Car, The Videos Skyrocket’
Every automaker is trying to use influencers to convince people to buy their cars. This is nothing new. Six years ago, a typical launch for a car in the United States was 90% journalists and maybe 10% influencers. Many of the launches today have whole days just devoted to influencers, and the split is closer to 50/50.
It’s a good strategy. I find the traditional journalists at launches are the first to the bar, the last to the briefing, and produce nothing more than a mostly replaceable bit of copy published with manufacturer photos. The influencers grind. They produce reels! They post to Instagram stories! It’s far more interactive. I have way more respect for that kind of hustle than I do for sclerotic modern automotive journalism. I also think it often creates more value for the automaker that forked over the money to bring people on a trip.
In that context, this Bloomberg Businessweek feature titled “TikTok Makes Americans Want Chinese EVs They Can’t Have” shouldn’t be that surprising or controversial. Isn’t that what everyone does? Just by virtue of being younger and newer, these companies are embracing social media.
The Beijing Motor Show is going on right now, and there are a bunch of influencers (and journalists) there on various automaker trips. We were invited by a Chinese automaker to go, but couldn’t make it work because of timing [Ed Note: Yes, we were invited by a Chinese automaker to go to China to cover Chinese cars that we cannot buy in the U.S. -DT]. Also, they were suddenly more interested in bringing Canadians because Canada is getting Chinese EVs first.
There’s nothing outrageous in this piece, but it’s interesting to see it laid out this way:
Richard Benoit flew to Alaska a little more than a year ago to test-drive a slate of China’s newest electric vehicles, shipped onto US soil to dazzle online car influencers like him. Sitting in the driver’s seat of a sky-blue Chery iCar 03, Benoit marveled at the SUV’s roomy interior, widescreen digital display with built-in karaoke and jaw-dropping price tag: $24,000. “Now I understand why they don’t want these to come to America,” he said in a video he posted on YouTube. “This is insane.”
Titled “I drove the cheap Chinese cars that are illegal in the USA. Now I know why,” the video has since racked up nearly 2 million views. Benoit says his American subscribers can’t get enough of the sleek, affordable vehicles from Chinese brands including BYD, Xiaomi and Zeekr that flood their social media feeds—yet aren’t for sale in the US. “The second I mention a Chinese car, the videos skyrocket,” he says, when reached by phone from his home in Massachusetts. “Americans want these cars—they just do.”
Obviously, we recently drove a bunch of Chinese cars in America at a press event and the takeaway was that they’re familiar and pretty good. The market is young and Chinese consumers are very tech-forward, so there’s a lot of fun ideas in these cars that look interesting to Americans. Ford’s CEO famously didn’t want to give his borrowed Chinese car back.
Additionally, China has heavily subsidized battery development and has massive overcapacity issues and differing standards that makes Chinese cars appear cheaper than they really are, or ought to be (to say nothing of credible reports of problematic labor practices). A $10,000 Chinese car could easily be a $20,000 Chinese car here. Plus, these companies usually aren’t under the same pressure to be profitable as other automakers.
It feels strange, though. The fact that a lot of this is happening on TikTok, which is a platform created by Chinese company ByteDance, is strange. Even if influencers aren’t being paid directly by carmakers to talk about their products (which, if disclosed, is totally legal and fine), there’s a sort of secondary payment to these influencers as they get compensated by the platforms themselves for engagement. I haven’t seen any evidence that Chinese automakers are forking over cash to boost this content, but I wouldn’t be surprised, either. One of the companies doing this is DCar, which is itself a spinoff of ByteDance, the company that created TikTok.
The oddest bit is that, due to tariffs that go back to the Biden Administration, bringing Chinese-built cars here seems remote, no matter what the appeal might be. Americans don’t so much crave cheap cars as they crave nice cars that happen to be affordable. Some of the interest in Chinese cars is probably due to the fantasy of having their nian gao and eating it, too. It’s possible that Chinese automakers are planning for a future where those rules are relaxed following the planned meeting between President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping.
Either way, I do think that Forrest Jones, who often features Chinese cars, makes a good point in the kicker of that piece:
He knows showcasing them in America is controversial but thinks competition is healthy for the industry. “Even if we don’t get them here,” Jones says, “I would like consumers to know what’s out there and have that ammunition to demand more from the brands we do have access to.”
This is absolutely correct. American brands aren’t going to get better until they acknowledge what makes Chinese cars appealing that isn’t related just to cost.
China Is Excited About Hybrids, Too!
It’s the “Decade of the Hybrid” y’all! Even China, which builds all those fancy EVs all those influencers seem to love, has a strong yearning for hybrid cars. What’s happening here?
Nikkei Asia explains that hybrids got overlooked by Chinese automakers due to the lack of subsidies, which gave an advantage to Japanese carmakers with more hybrid experience:
“The cost of our HEV solution is nearly the same as our plug-in EV solution,” Wu Jian, an executive at GAC, said in a 2021 interview. “But when the price tags are similar, consumers are more willing to buy plug-in cars that are not only eligible for a green license plate but also exempt from purchase taxes,” he added, referring to the registration plate that offers perks such as exemptions from certain traffic restrictions.
All of a sudden, though, Chinese automakers are showing new hybrids. What’s going on?
The shift has been driven by reduced state tax incentives for EVs and plug-in hybrids starting 2026, as well as a regulatory change requiring automakers in China to reach an average fuel economy of 3.3 liters per 100 km in 2030, said Yale Zhang, managing director of Shanghai-based consultancy Automotive Foresight.
“If there are still fuel-powered cars in China in the future, they will largely be HEVs,” Zhang said. “I forecast that carmakers will stop launching traditional internal combustion engine models, starting next year.”
Electric cars for some, hybrids for others, and tiny Chinese flags for everyone else.
Sterling Anderson’s 40 Million Reasons To Stay At GM
It’s been a while since America had a big and tall automotive exec. Was the last one Lutz? It might have been Lutz. Or that one guy, Reid Landman. Either way, the next one might be Sterling Anderson. Why?
The Detroit Free Press noticed something interesting in the company’s executive compensation filings:
GM’s board also approved an elaborate, one-time-only new hire award package for an executive that media reports have said is on a short list to replace Barra ― Sterling Anderson.
Anderson’s hiring package totaled $40 million, a one-time deal that would be paid out through 2027. After the deal’s terms conclude on July 29, 2027, Anderson will receive a regular compensation more in line with other GM executives, according to GM.
Basically, Anderson has to meet certain goals and stick around at GM to keep the money. This could be meaningful or it could just be something normal. Maybe he’s just doing a great job. Or, maybe, they don’t want him to get poached. Last time I suggested this a GM spokesperson, unprompted, emailed to let me know this was all speculation. Let’s see if that happens again!
‘It’s A Heap Of A Mess’ Says Ford Dealer
As a Texan, the first two signs of spring were the arrival of fields of bluebonnets and Truck Month. I think this Truck Month might have been ruined, as a dealer points out to Automotive News:
Chuck Anderson Ford, less than 20 miles from Ford’s F-150 plant in Kansas City, Mo., usually starts Truck Month with about 70 of the pickups. This year, it had only nine.
“It’s a heap of a mess,” Nick Anderson, the dealership’s general manager, told Automotive News. “Outside of COVID, I’ve never seen an F-150 shortage like this.”
Ford dealers around the U.S. are grappling with an undersupply of a vehicle that’s a reliable profit pillar and the leader in an intensely competitive segment. The automaker is scrambling to boost production but has signaled that inventory levels may not stabilize until the second half of the year.
None of this is a secret. Ford has said in filings that the two fires at its aluminum provider in New York is going to slow down supply until later this year. Still, the extent of it seems to be profound.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
Coachella sounds like it was a party this year, and there’s no one I’d have rather seen than the immeasurably great Kacey Musgraves. Watch her as she sings “Uncertain, TX” and sways along to a Tejano accordion. I love Tejano accordion.
The Big Question
Have you been exposed to influencers peddling Chinese cars? Has it worked? [Ed Note: I also want to ask: Are you convinced that Chinese cars are, as a whole, better than U.S. ones? -DT].
Top graphic images: TikTok; YouTube; BYD
I’ve never been attracted to social media. I guess commenting on sites like this is as close as I come.
I was recently in Europe for a bit and had back seat experiences in a number of Chinese and Korean EVs (and hybrids). They were all decent rides. Perfectly fine. When I asked a few drivers what they thought, the answer was “fine”. These of course were livery spec, so they probably lacked the useless gadgets the Chinese might be trying to load them up with. Based on that sample, I would take them over a Tesla, which I find uncomfortable in ride share use. Polstars aren’t bad in the back seat, but ugh, the driver ergonomics are awful. The Cadillacs are too big and expensive for my use case, so there not much else on the market in North America that would be more appealing than what I saw the Chinese offering. The Chevy Bolt might be a contender, but I found the seating position and the seats to be very uncomfortable.
I also rode in a Cupra that was all of the ergonomic things wrong with an id4 but grotesquely over styled.
TBF, the Chinese have so many products on the market, that some or most are bound to be bad, but I found enough to be winners that other manufacturers had better step up their game.
TBQ: they sure seem pretty sweet but the price certainly influences my opinion. Without a real-world US price and long-term testing here, who knows. I would be very hesitant due to their unfair business practices, labor issues, and I just can’t get my head around buying a giant surveillance for the CCP. Hell, I once bought a cheap Chinese tablet off Amazon for my kid and it came new with two viruses on it. Imagine the data, intel, and Kompromat they could get off of each car to use against us or for blackmail, especially for married people and parents with secrets. They already have an incredibly robust surveillance system for their own people and an incredibly aggressive industrial espionage program targeting us.
IDF figured Chery and other Chinese cars were dangerous enough to ban them shortly after leasing some for officers. I believe before that they claimed they were safe because they had disabled systems and modems. I did find it interesting how they said Israels small size was a big reason and the us being large it would be harder for the Chinese. The remote control aspect is also concerning.
Service members have been banned from tiktok, everyone else informed of the risk. When they banned tiktok a subset rushed out to find the Chinese market apps. Then started calling everyone a Chinese spy in a ironic way. They ate it up. They are the type that put their whole life out there letting the Chinese spy on them would just take up bandwidth with little results. Banning service members from Chinese cars with a warning to all they might not be safe platforms, sure. Banning them from government buildings, sure. The Chinese already layed the framework banning Tesla from their government buildings.
Then there’s the whole OTA Update framework/backdoor. That would allow them to add whatever software they wanted to at any time. In reference to the Remote Control aspect you mentioned, what’s to stop the CCP from take over cars at will or bricking all of them at once- if we had a dispute with them. Hell, look what’s happening in The Straits and imagine that happening on our roads everywhere. It sounds like a SiFi dystopian movie plot event or a conspiracy theory but so did our Government and NatSec systems having AI in them in the Terminator series. We are already there with the capabilities to commandeer cars’ internal systems and controls remotely. Also, car companies are already downloading our data, including AV, and using it. The huge Tesla lawsuit case demonstrated that- particularly the video data. If they can download your data and keep it from you for their own reasons, why wouldn’t a hostile government- especially after remotely driving your car into something or off a cliff. That would sure be easier than throwing you off a balcony like the FSB is apt to do.
The same reasons the cold war never really turned hot. They do it to us we do it them. Thats why we have cybercom. So many PLCs and various other electronics in critical roles are made in China. Nothing from stopping them using a backdoor implanted during manufacturing other then the US has backdoors and zero days too. They know if they do it we do it to them.
This whole foreign router thing is just going to turn into a preferred vendor program Netgear already has a license or exemption however you want to look at it. I had hoped that it would push vendors to open source. Many openwrt or similar forked firmware routers and devices out there. A simple solution might be for Chinese vendors to switch to an open source firmware that is certified by cisa or mitre or whoever the FCC tags to run a program.
A similar approach to that could be taken for vehicle systems. Though when the Chinese launches their LEO constellation that could change things. But teardowns and firmware certifications could work to help ensure compliance.
KGB used to run people off the road quite often. My grandmother was killed in such a fashion and my mom was severely injured as a small child.
US automakers know everyplace you have driven and every call and text you have made or sent from you car. How fast you drive, how aggressively you brake….
How many people had to look up the word sclerotic besides me?
I had to look up journalism. I forgot what that was supposed to be. /s
Well it sounds like sclerosis, which is a disease. Is that right? 😛
I’m not sure I would call all Youtubers or even tiktok people influencers. We are seeing the importance of “new media” for the second time in 2 decades. Any publication that posted only to a website used to be called bloggers. Now it’s rare there are printed publications.
The Chinese media space is different and live stream selling/ influcers as well as new media people took off. So its natural for the Chinese to reach out to similar in different markets. They reach out to people they think will be enjoying their products but I’m not sure that’s all that different then westen pr. What happens when someone comes out with something they don’t like is what changes depending how big the company is and the platform.
There could be correlation between more adverse behavior and how connected to the CCP the individual is. Party officials offspring tend to get better posts in bigger companies. It’s like a nepo baby just more angry and murdery but for the state. We have a similar system at us pacs, beltway bandits, and ngos.
Look at Munro I wouldn’t call him or his people influcers. They are engineers and consultants. He has been in the media space for decades giving his two cents. Now he is giving his opinion in more long form directly as someone who knows what Detroit is capable of. He has his own ideas that butt with a lot of conservative engineers. But he was one of the ones that went to China and thought them. He seems generally impressed by the Chinese cars when he tears them down. Sometimes a lot of questions of why
they did but also impressed. It’s not all that different from where he tears down a western automaker’s. Just different areas of concern and question for him.
So influcers have not effected my opinion. New media people, engineers, consultants, have . Getting in the vehicles and driving them when in markets that have them has. But really in the back of your mind it’s inevitably of it all. China has built up and changed a lot. They have taken over many markets though products that aren’t only cheaper but often better. They aren’t stupid, they know what they are doing. The Vietnamese have a tough road to go but they are ok the same path.
Chinese cars excell in value and tech. They also bring a large feature set. Chinese bev platforms are some of the best right now. So much so the west is licensing their tech. When you go to other platforms not so much. Maybe an erev because they have the platforms. But a series hybrid to ice no that remains Japanese territory.
This sounds like a PR or K Street firm written comment by someone that I’ve never seen on here before. It checks all the boxes of a Shillville psuedo-unbiased take. If I get doxed or hacked in the next day or so(particularly from a Chinese IP address), we will have our confirmation.
BTW, the name of the CCP nepobabies you were describing is “Princelings”.
Haven’t worked on k street for over 25 years and even then I wasn’t involved in typical k street behaviors . Yep , pricelings not in most people’s lexicon. More direct translation Little Prince / ess. Or red prince /ess also popular among China hawks.
I can’t remember who it was right now, but a short while back something popped up on my radar about a columnist who doesn’t write about cars who was loaned a Chinese EV and ended up writing glowingly about it.
Wowing someone who doesn’t cover cars and may not have ever owned a really nice car with a brand new high end EV seems like a pretty dishonest strategy, and it grosses me out.
Not the traditional “influencer” but same idea.
Not really but it seems like the argument for that isn’t outright crazy like it was a few years ago, and EVs are a big part of that argument.
Have you been exposed to influencers peddling Chinese cars? Has it worked? [Ed Note: I also want to ask: Are you convinced that Chinese cars are, as a whole, better than U.S. ones? -DT].
With the exception of trucks, Japanese is my go to.
Japanese cars are the ones I respect the most while desiring the least. And so I don’t buy them as a rule. Three out of 50+ cars in my life, and two of those were gifts. The one remaining was part Italian – a Fiata.
Are Chinese cars better than (U.S.) ones? Tough question since there aren’t any Chinese cars in direct competition yet for the US domestic market. But a related experience with a sample size of one. Last summer we were on a road trip in northern Spain and sw France. Our rental car, an almost new Citroen C4 Aircross, took a total shit and left us stranded in the middle of the countryside. Managed to get back to the nearest Europcar office and it took a day for them to source a replacement – a new Chinese built MG HS SUV. It was damn nice (much nicer than the Citroen), drove well and was very well equipped, at least as nice and well screwed together as the RAV4 Limited back home in my garage. Which is a US car in the sense that it was assembled in North Carolina. Would I buy one if the MG was available in the US? Probably not, I have no idea of long-term reliability and build quality at the very least. But I understand the appeal of Chinese cars like this particularly at the right price.
Who’d of thought that “Customers don’t matter, only our shareholders. Now give us money!” wouldn’t be a successful long term business strategy? Or that America was going to effortlessly dominate the world forever after beating an opponent that was constantly shooting itself in the foot?
‘brainwashed by Chinese intelligence’ – kind of like that Eric Swalwell dude just resigned from congress, sheesh, I just read that the other day!
Only social media I’ve ever had is a Linkedin so I don’t see the influencers, the whole thing is just advertising in modern form like Ricardo Montauban with the Corinthian leather Chrysler.
DT asking if we think Chinese cars as a whole are better than American cars?? Like in totality?! Strange question, not many people would even know much about the Chinese cars to make that decision. The answer is HELL NO
This site is as much social media as LinkedIn is.
Career and jobs? Maybe I’m too old and don’t understand.
Posting and getting responses is what makes Social Media. The topic really doesn’t matter at all.
Why do we say “it’s a disaster to let the chinese cars enter” when the actual disaster is to let US automaker leadership get away with the SHITE they are still doling out to the public?
Because small minority of people with manufacturing jobs are more important than the everyone who buy the cars.
No, I don’t know why that is true. Seems only true to those who have to listen to the mfr’s complain and threaten to vote them out of office.
Domestic automakers aren’t worried about manufacturing jobs.
GM has eliminated about 20,000 domestic jobs in the 17 years since their bailout
They still directly employ -170K, -100K domestically, and indirectly via suppliers, dealers, etc., another probably half million or more.
And those are pretty universally high-paying, middle class and up jobs. I am OK with not sending any more of my money to China than absolutely necessary. Sending plenty of it to China as it is simply because there no longer are any alternatives.
OK, then union leaders.
They’re not either.
-Fuck China
-Fuck TikTok
-Fuck “Influencers”
(It’s NOT a real job, they are all fake people, they are fucking annoying, and they have no life at all)
They do understand capitalism well enough.
Who, the influencers or China?
Both
Why not both?
This is my social media, for I am a weird nerd.
I will say this, Americans are going to be mighty susceptible to this sort of marketing though. There are an awful lot of people who feel like they’re actively getting fucked by domestic and other traditional foreign manufacturers, with high prices and some pretty shocking reliability crises going on. If we were in an era where most people are enjoying great performing, dead nuts reliable vehicles for fair prices, I think most people would just laugh off Chinese cars and continue to enjoy their trusted brands.
But that’s not what’s really going on. In my office over the past couple of months, two coworkers have had their GM truck grenade, one just had their Powershit Focus give up the ghost, one has a Pilot with transmission issues, and someone the other day was complaining about their RAV4 infotainment shitting the bed. There’s an awful lot of people feeling betrayed by their expensive transportation pods, and given an opportunity (there probably won’t be) people are willing to move on to competitors (even shitty human rights violating competitors) after being abused. Doesn’t help that this country isn’t exactly setting itself apart from China in the human rights violation department these days either.
In short, if you want to protect yourself from cheap Chinese competition, you sure as hell better give people a reason to pay more for your product. And no, you’re not going to beat them on dystopian software guys, the Chinese are the GOATs of that.
In other words, you work with people who own cars. Whatever would make you think Chinese cars are going to be any better? Especially if they are massively cheaper and have even more garbage tinsel ladled onto them?
Oh, I’m not saying Chinese cars might be better. Not at all. But if people perceive that ALL cars suck ass now, they’re far more likely to be willing to go with a cheap Chinese alternative.
This seems to be pervasive in the world of home appliances for instance. In a race to the bottom, no amount of money, unless you’re buying a commercial kitchen for your home, is probably going to get you a reliable appliance. They’re all basically disposable garbage, might as well just buy the cheap one. It’s not like spending 3x as much on a dishwasher means it’ll last 3x as long.
The “they all suck why should I care” mentality is unfortunately become pretty common, and is exactly how Chinese cars will manage to find an opening. Whether that’s fair or not.
I don’t expect *anything* to last forever. That is not realistic. Sure, my grandmother had a Maytag washer that lasted almost 60 years – but it cost the equivalent of like $5K today, it did need fixing a number of times, while using a TON of water and a TON of electricity along the way. No thanks, I will take my modern one that maybe I need to replace 3-4 times, but cost a whole lot less each time. I will be perfectly happy to get 10-15 years out of my LG heatpump combo unit. Worth every penny, and I have no doubt the next one in a decade will be even better than this one. But also different horses for different courses – anyone who buys this LG to do laundry for a large family is a moron. For a single dude who does one load a week it will probably last a really, really long time. While sipping electricity (at 110v, not 220v, and not blowing expensively A/C’d air out of the house) and water.
Chinese cars may be cheap upfront – but are they cheaper or even maintainable in the long run?I wouldn’t bet on it. Cars are a tad bit more complex than appliances. Yugos were really cheap too…
And definitely don’t get me wrong – I have zero fears about the reliability of modern cars (at least not-stupid and not purely electron-motivated ones). For the most part, when it comes to that, the good old days are right now. My qualms are entirely around the user interfaces and driving experience. And there is no chance in hell that the Chinese are going to make anything that meets my desires there. If the Germans can’t do it anymore, the Chinese sure won’t.
There are plenty of clowns online who have fallen for the Chinese propaganda thanks to those influencers. Some are even on this website – they know who they are.
Its funny too because so many of these same people are the type who would complain about companies not paying their workers “living wages”, and yet here they are trying to act like Chinese cars entering Western countries is anything other than a total disaster.
Not only are these Chinese vehicles sold at impossibly low prices, in part, thanks to slave labor, but it is far more than that. The auto industry in Western countries has historically paid their workers quite well. Even today, while so many other factory job wages are being threatened by automation, the complexity of the car assembly, as well as unions, have kept wages in Western auto plants quite high.
These are the factory jobs that we should be protecting and heralding as examples for other industries to mimic. Instead you have short-sighted clowns who want to under-cut those good paying jobs for their fellow countrymen just so they can save a couple of bucks on some Chinesium cars.
We already have no choice where certain products are made. Far too many phones, electronic gadgets, clothes, tools and lots of other things all come from Red China. While I still have a choice, I’ll be damned if the cars I drive are also made there.
Okay Grandpa, let’s get you to bed.
It’s OK, boy. You clearly have nothing of value to add.
I suggest you visit China. It’s quite lovely, has excellent food and beautiful landscapes.
And a lovely government and deep surveillance state. And an interesting take on “intellectual property”.
Nazi Germany had great food and beautiful views too. “Folks, fun, and der Fuerer”
It was a very eye opening experience when I first started travelling internationally for work. I wouldn’t have done it on my own because I was raised to believe the USA was he best place in the world and did everything better than everyone else. Then stepped outside my bubble….
The only thing that has kept me out of China is the obnoxiously long flight times. Nope. Ain’t doing that. And I travel enough as it is. But traveling there has nothing to do with this topic in the slightest bit.
Have I been exposed? Yes. I believe I have watched some of the videos referenced in this article.
Did it work? Kind of.
I wouldn’t say I’m convinced Chinese cars they are better than [North] American cars, (to answer DT’s obtuse rephrasing of the question) however I certainly believe they are good enough to be competitive in any market.
It’s easy to romanticize Japanese cars 50 years later, but the reality is that those early Datsuns, Toyotas and Hondas were rusty (albeit reliable) crap-cans, produced in the country that bombed Pearl Harbour and committed abhorrent war crimes against civilians in Manchuria 30 years prior. That was an uphill marketing battle, but look at those brands now.
I think your average North American consumer is incredibly ambivalent about the idea of purchasing a Chinese vehicle, even if they claim otherwise. We are already used to like 90% of our consumer products coming from that country, and I don’t see why cars would be any different. Hell, I know plenty of people who self-identify as rednecks, and own CF moto ATVs and SxS’.
As an educated person, I am plenty aware of the problems within the Chinese labour market. I am also well aware of the direct actions of the CIA and American imperialism at large against democracy, and citizens of nations worldwide. So yeah. There is no ethical consumption.
Maybe this is generational, but for those of the millennial and younger generations, Chinese tech products are often viewed as the ‘scrappy upstart’,
undercutting western brands while delivering more features at the same quality. Some of these brands are even viewed as the premium option in their tech space. I don’t think anyone would question that DJI leads the consumer and professional drone industry, for instance.
As a Canadian, I am very interested to see what happens once Chinease EVs become available here. I have no direct interest in purchasing one myself at the moment, but I am an Autopian commenter with slightly different automotive tastes than your average car buyer. I would like to buy an EV in the next 5 years, so who knows!
This is something I frequently think about when the subject of Chinese vehicles comes up. My parents were young adults when Japanese cars and motorcycles entered America by the boatload. The response wasn’t positive for a while. They were seen as disposable cars made by people whom Americans sometimes referred to by a slur.
Now look where those brands are. How many shoppers don’t even consider a Chevy on the way to their Honda dealer? I wonder what’s going to happen with Chinese cars in the next 10-20 years. Will China’s car industry do what Japan and South Korea did?
I think they can, and looking beyond the Unites States (and Canada) they already have, and more.
Ignoring some important details like an organized effort to integrate Japan’s economy into the global market post-war, I think the odds were stacked much higher against the Japanese car industry when they made inroads into the North American market. At least in terms of consumer sentiment.
Being closer to your parents age I remember it clearly, including my Grandfather using those slurs (he was a European theater WWII Vet who volunteered the day after Pearl Harbor)
“Goddamn foreign cars” was the late 70s early 80s version of a meme, long before we had that word. “Out of a job yet? Keep buying Foreign” was a prominent bumper sticker back then. I should get one and put it on my Hondas 🙂
So the current crusty generations will resist, but soon be overridden by the new ones who have different values, which is not a flaw, one can’t value something you’ve never been exposed to. To further push the ball towards Chinese manufacturers, if the local competition isn’t better, AND costs more, why wouldn’t they be embraced?
The automotive industry has had 30 years to prepare for this, hell they funded the first JVs in China to build cheaper cars there; rather than ensure they kept tabs on the quality and outpace it, they got complacent and relished in the financial boon they created for themselves, so they, and by extension us, are getting exactly what we deserve.
My favorite Union saying of that era was “You can’t eat your Toyota”. That would be extra funny as a bumper sticker on a Tacoma turned taco.
This is my main thought process too. I remember my grandfather being really unhappy I bought a German car almost 20 years ago…I understood it because he was stationed on a Corvette patrolling for U-Boats in WWII.
China has an advantage because they’re already a big part of our economy (whether people admit it or not), and don’t have the war stigma that Japan and Germany had. They’ve also been smartly paying attention to the inefficiencies that make cars more expensive and have interesting solutions (which might lead to a human atrocities stigma…but there are very few countries and large corps that can avoid that one…sadly).
I fully expect China to hit the ground running…very much like Hyundai in the early 80’s. I don’t expect it to take decades to take significant market share…just like Hyundai, “better” won’t matter in Canada if “value” is there. And they’ll be able to move fast.
Jokes on them given Honda’s EVs are made by GM.
Those early Japanese cars weren’t actually all that reliable, just slightly better and cheaper than the utter crap that Detroit was pumping out at the time.
“Have you been exposed to influencers peddling Chinese cars?”
Yes
“Has it worked?”
Not yet since they’re not actually available for sale yet.
Here’s the thing… a given car may be fantastic when new.
But how does it hold up after 5 years? And how does it hold up between 5 and 10 years?
Take BMW for example… JD Power and even Consumer Reports say their reliability is now “great”
But I don’t buy it.
And that’s because all these studies focus on the first 5 years of ownership.
Since I buy used cars, what I care about is the cost of maintenance and repairs after 5 years.
So that’s where a used car report that tracks reliability of used cars between 5-10 years old comes in:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/which-brands-make-the-best-used-cars-a2811658468/
Oh look at that… Lexus is #1, Toyota is #2, Mazda and Honda are almost tied for #3 and Acura/BMW are tied for #4.
Oh but you just heard me being down on BMW even though in this report, BMW has a good showing. But that’s where this next report comes in… Cost Of Ownership:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-maintenance/the-cost-of-car-ownership-a1854979198/
After 10 years, the Acura will cost you around $7725 in maintenance and repairs. But the BMW on average will cost you $11,000… because after 5 years, BMWs tend to break in some very expensive ways compared to anything Japanese or American.
I’d also like to point out the worst offender… that would be Land Rover… with an average cost of $19,460 after 10 years on average.
And while Tesla was at the bottom of the ‘Reliability’ report, they’re #5 on the maintenance/repair cost report with a cost of just $6125… a bit ahead of Honda and Mazda. And only Hyundai, Toyota, Lincoln and Buick were ahead of Tesla. And I say this as someone who is NOT a fan of Tesla.
So what I’m getting at is with Chinese cars, they might be great when new, but all these road tests give me zero info on how well these cars will hold up over time when exposed to rust belt winters and what the Total Cost of Ownership will be over time.
Now nice/great/fast/feature-filled they are when new is only part of the picture. And to me, it’s far from the most important part.
The reliability, durability, maintenance costs, repair costs, cost/availability of parts, cost/availability of mechanics who know how to work on them and the overall TCO (which includes the cost of insurance, fuel and taxation) is the rest of the picture that is collectively way more important to me.
I have a 15 year old BMW that has needed a new battery since the warranty ran out. <shrug> If it does break, I know how to fix it.
I don’t think this is the right question. Cars built in and for the US are currently built using a template that tries to extract the most amount of money for a premium experience or level of luxury. How often have we heard that a manufacturer is trying to move the brand up-market?
From a lasting product quality standpoint I think there is a lot we don’t know. EVs generally don’t require as much maintenance and are pretty reliable. But I personally don’t know anything about the longevity of Chinese manufacturer batteries used in them. Does anyone know how well the overall fit and finish of these cars holds up after 3-5 years? I haven’t heard.
But, the lower end of the market has been largely ignored here and I think that the approach of the Chinese manufacturers would be a welcome one. We are used to being offered an economy car as a penalty box, begrudgingly sold to us if we can’t afford something else. But BYD, Huwai and others are offering something that looks good and has a lot of good features included for a low price. That is going to be attractive to a lot of buyers used to cheap looking alternatives. Even if they don’t necessarily hold up to our normal standards for what makes a quality vehicle. Trade-offs will be considered I would guess.
I do have questions about the ethics of how these are built, how the Chinese government has subsidized the R&D, manufacturing and sales of these vehicles and how that puts our own country’s manufacturing sector at a competitive disadvantage. Not to mention the usage of slave labor that is known in some regions.
There are a lot of reasons to be concerned about these but I don’t think we start by asking if these are as good, or better, than US built cars.
Hey I’ve been wanting a cheap Chinese EV or hybrid long before any of those influencers got their promo cars. Honestly though I don’t think there’s much influence needed to sell Americans on cheap cars considering the market here.
Interesting demographic question comes to mind.
What’s the median age of the commentariat here?
Given our losing bets on cars, manual transmissions, and fondness for cars of the past, I think this is the equivalent of asking a WWII vet about their opinion about MTV circa 1985.
The comment section of my local newspaper is probably older than this. But otherwise, this comment section probably leans about as old as it gets. I’m 37 and have been called a “whippersnapper” here.
So yeah, this isn’t going to be a group particularly excited about Chinese EVs with 20 square feet of screen for a dashboard. To be fair, I’m not excited about that either.
I feel like the median age of the commentariat is similar to the median age of the contributors. Low-mid-30s. Which from my age of getting scarily close to 60, counts as “kids”. As in, most of y’all are young enough to be my kids, and I find most lack perspective and a sense of history that comes with getting old and having BTDT for 40 years when it comes to cars. There really don’t seem to be THAT many of us old gits here. But we do tend to be opinionated and not afraid to call out what we see as BS. I think that is a fairly defining characteristic of my generation, actually.
Though perhaps auto enthusiasts do tend to lean towards being somewhat conservative and not embracing of the latest nonsense trends. Though amusingly, my friends who have MOST embraced EVs are all to MUCH older than I am.
I have been influenced by Mexico since I am from there and Chinese cars are taking over. The thing that everyone seems to forget until this article, HEV and PHEV are the majority of their products lineup in Mexico. Their prices are cheaper than Toyota and Honda HEV, but with PHEV capability.
GM is selling a bunch of chinese cars under the Chevy brand but they are not as good as BYD, Geely or MG.
America is not ready for chinese EVs (GM, Tesla and Hyundai/KIA are very good at it in this country) but is more than ready for their HEV and PHEV.
considering paper publications are nearly dead, it makes sense that Youtuber and tic tok are the go to platforms for vehicel reviews and since it is very simple and inexpensive to see reviews from all over, it kind of is not surprising.
I suppose Chinese cars are really not unlike JDM stuff and Kei Cars, not available Stateside so they cause some stir and desire when seen on a platform recorded in a country not the one of the viewer. the number of Youtubers getting one way or another a new tesla a decade back and then flaunting that was certainly a thing then too.
No, or at least not yet. Every time I’ve seen someone try to “prove” that Chinese cars are lightyears ahead of US ones, they handwave away real problems and only focus on the parts that are good. And there absolutely are areas where they’re better, but as a whole? I’m not convinced.
I wasn’t alive to experience it but this sounds similar to the sentiments when Japanese cars started showing up here: an existential threat to domestic industry. I’m sure at the time folks argued the Japanese had a leg up due to government support or exchange rates or whatever and I’m sure at least some of those arguments had merit. But, at the end of the day, how’d that work out?
The difference is that Japanese and Chinese cultures are starkly different and that translates a lot to car manufacturing.
Japan prioritized quality and reliability above all, making cars designed to last forever. Japan didn’t want to sell you a cheap car, they wanted to sell you a “buy it for life” one.
The Chinese approach car manufacturing as they do most other things. Their issues with lax copyright, quality control and “disposable-ness” of things result in cars that are more like appliances. They want to flood the market with cheap, tech-ridden cars that you want to replace often, like cell phones. Reliability is not much of a concern when things like software will make your car obsolete early.
I do think China will dominate the market eventually but the results won’t be as pretty as when Japan taught the world about dependability.
Well said. And yeah, love it or hate it but in 20 yrs there will for sure be BYD dealerships all over town. Probably sooner.
The Japanese and the Koreans that followed didn’t start out selling quality reliable cars. They started selling cheap cars and then got steadily better.
I haven’t encountered influencers hawking cars since that cringe-worthy trend a few years ago where a pretty lady would tap on some part of the car with her nails and say the manufacturer’s name. I have noticed a fair number of BYD ads in my Instagram feed lately, but like most sponsored things I just scroll on by.
Who needs influencers when Ford’s CEO publicly remarks repeatedly how great Chinese vehicles are and how much he enjoyed driving one for six months?
And we (the U.S. as an overall entity, not every individual) certainly don’t have much of a leg to stand on when it comes to criticizing human rights abuses anymore.