President Trump is finally heading to China for his long-awaited series of trade talks with Chinese President Xi Jinping. The White House has made it clear that the automotive sector is mostly off the table at these talks. That doesn’t seem to be placating the automotive industry.
Today’s installment of The Morning Dump is all about what could happen, starting with how China’s vast car industry could interact with America’s car production. The concept of partnerships between the two countries on cars is sensitive, although Ford is soon to open its first plant with Chinese technology in the US very soon, so it’s possible.
The concept of tariffs was that automakers would start opening up more plants in the United States, which is slowly happening. Very slowly. So far only a handful of cars have actually switched as everyone waits to see what happens with the USMCA.
While carmakers worry about the threat of Chinese technology, one automaker in the US can’t even have employees at work due to failing infrastructure. How’s that for dichotomy?
Will The President Go Wildcard?
One of the best, most chaotic characters in all of narrative history is Charlie from It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia. He’s a Don Quixote romantic with a Puckish charm and, likely, some of Gritty’s DNA. Charlie is also a “wildcard” as seen in the clip above. He’s willing to cut the brakes of the van he’s currently in so that he can fulfill a mission that’s usually only comprehensible to him.
It makes for great television, mostly because it creates ceaseless misfortune for everyone in his immediate universe. Whatever your politics, it’s undeniable the current President has a certain wildcard aspect to him, and carmakers seem very concerned that’s going to come into play when he’s in China this week.
Reuters has a good summation under the headline “US industry, lawmakers worried Trump will open US to Chinese autos,” that mentions President Trump is one of the few individuals with any power who seems excited about the prospect of Chinese automakers opening up plants in the US.
The White House has been explicit that cars aren’t going to be discussed, so what’s the concern?
U.S. Trade Representative Jamieson Greer said in Detroit in April that there were no plans to change the connected car rule, and that autos were not on the agenda at the Beijing summit. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick also has ruled out Chinese investments in the U.S. autos sector.
But Scott Paul, president of the Alliance for American Manufacturing, a domestic industries group, said there is a strong concern that Trump, who often talks of attracting more auto assembly plants to the U.S., could act alone.
“He’s left wiggle room in dealing with the auto sector,” Paul said.
Any plant approved would take two-to-three years to launch production, leaving consequences to Trump’s successor.
The US might not be have all the cards as it approaches the talks. Some in China view the US as an empire in decline, as the New York Times reports:
In January, a nationalistic Beijing think tank affiliated with Renmin University published a triumphant report about Mr. Trump’s first year back in office. The report argued that his tariffs, attacks on allies, anti-immigration policies and assaults on the American political establishment had inadvertently strengthened China while weakening the United States. Its title: “Thank Trump.”
That report comes with its own agenda, but it’s true that China has become less reliant on US exports and has used the trade war to expand elsewhere, as Nikkei Asia points out:
In the first four months of this year, the U.S. accounted for just 10% of China’s total exports, according to Chinese customs data. That is down from 18.4% in 2016, before Trump ramped up tariffs against China during his first term.
“The reality is China is no longer exporting to the U.S. directly because it has built up supply chains in other countries,” said Raymond Yeung, chief economist for greater China at ANZ. “For China, the overall U.S. trade policy against the world matters more than direct tariffs. If the U.S. imposes tariffs on Vietnam, Indonesia or India, it may indirectly impact China.”
Of course, the other side of this is that some people want Chinese cars here, and there’s been a concerted effort by Chinese brands to court American buyers. Could a president in search of a win sell out an entire sector? That’s the concern of the week.
Right now, the only Chinese-owned and automotive-adjacent factory is a small facility in California building BYD buses, although another one is almost done…
Ford’s Plant With Chinese Tech Is Ready To Open
The BlueOval Battery Park Michigan in the small town of Marshall is finally ready to start making batteries after years of drama. What was the issue? The plant, though not owned by a Chinese company, will use battery technology sourced from one. Specifically, the plant will use LFP chemistry licensed from CATL, the largest battery company in the world.
Just so you don’t think that President Trump is the only person willing to make an industrial deal with a Chinese firm, this project has its roots in the Biden Era plan to create green jobs and lessen our dependence on oil which, given that gas prices have been so low for so long, seems silly.
I’m kidding. Gas is expensive AF.
As Bloomberg explains, the whole concept of this was both necessary and designed to not freak people out:
Ford’s venture with CATL is structured to allay concerns. The US carmaker owns the plant, land and equipment and hires the workers. CATL, which holds no equity, offers lithium iron phosphate battery chemistry under a licensing agreement, and dispatches Chinese engineers to train Ford employees. It’s an arrangement with echoes of the deal that allowed Chinese social media app TikTok to remain operational in America, after ByteDance Ltd. agreed to license its prized algorithm to a new US-based entity.
Both sides have reason to like this setup. Use of CATL batteries by US automakers could help them become the industry standard, and boost market share. TikTok’s technology was seen as carrying security risks, but CATL’s CEO Robin Zeng has joked his battery cells are “dumb as bricks” — i.e. no use for espionage or any other unintended purpose.
Those batteries will be used, at least partially, to supply energy to the new $30,000 electric Ford truck. The rest are planned to be used for the company’s new energy storage business that’s been organized under the name Ford Energy.
While there are other companies with LFP patents, a Ford exec told reporters it would have taken a decade to catch up without the CATL tech.
Everyone Is Concerned About The USMCA
Once automakers have an answer on what’s going to happen with China, they can move back to the more immediate threat of what’s going to happen to the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA), created by President Trump in his first term, that underpins a huge amount of cross-border trade.
For all the pulling of hair and gnashing of teeth about the tariffs, most homegrown American automakers have been able to get by okay because the USMCA is still in place. It’s under review and it’s making people nervous.
It’s fairly clear at this point that President Trump would prefer every car sold in America is built in America, but so far only five models can be said to have been switched because of tariffs, and those changes are still in progress.
More so than just cars, the supply chains are also important, and all this uncertainty is hard for everyone.
Car manufacturers plan production five to seven years in advance, making it extremely difficult or even impossible for them to move quickly, said Jennifer Safavian, CEO of Autos Drive America, which represents foreign automakers in the U.S. And automotive supply chains are extremely complex, further complicating efforts to move production, she said.
“It’s hard for them to upend whatever plans they have,” Safavian said. “That’s why more certainty is important for the auto industry.”
[…]
“There are certain supply chains that have been built up over years and years that may not make sense [to have in the U.S.], which is why we have an agreement like USMCA,” said Collin Shaw, president of MEMA Original Equipment Suppliers, which represents U.S. suppliers.
What happens with the USMCA is anyone’s guess at this point.
Stellantis Employees Have To Work At Home Due To Water Main Break
Not helping with the whole “America is an empire in decline” narrative is the fact that the North American HQ of Stellantis can’t host employees because of a massive water main break in Orion Township that’s screwing with the water supply.
Being able to work at the HQ is an ongoing issue, as the Detroit Free Press reports:
The water main break is the latest hurdle for automaker employees working from the North American home office.
Stellantis ordered white collar employees in January to return to work five days a week after years of work from home policies stemming from the coronavirus pandemic period.
But since that period began at the end of March, employees have complained about parking citations as well as mysterious illnesses stemming from the older building.
Oof.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
I had a dream last night about the upcoming Member’s Only track day at Lime Rock Park. Basically, I forgot to tell catering how many people were showing up and so all of a sudden I had to beg them to make a lot of sandwiches. As we were driving around in some sort of van (VW Transporter?), Nick told me not to worry and put in a tape of Bachman-Turner Overdrive. I don’t remember the song, but let’s assume it “You Ain’t Seen Nothing Yet.”
The Big Question
Would you buy an American-built, Chinese-branded car?
Top photo: BYD
I had a dream last night about the upcoming Member’s Only track day at Lime Rock Park.
I hope this comes with a jacket.
I knew someone would eventually mention that. 🙂 My first serious GF a zillion years ago used to toss her permed curls around while sporting a slightly shiny, burgundy red MO jacket and jeans so tight… While that all sounds aesthetically iffy now, back in the early 1980s it worked so well. 😉
As Picard wistfully replied, “Those were the days.”
You can substitute nearly every country on earth here with that statement.
I just spent two weeks and some change in Northern Europe and it is shocking how behind the US is with regard to cars. I knew it to be the case on paper but seeing it in person was staggering. Probably half or more of the vehicles I saw were EVs and the Chinese companies had dealerships in most of the major cities I was in…and I’ve got to say, the cars don’t exactly look shabby either.
Pretty much every new-ish car was an EV…and before the anti EV crowd gets too revved up I will acknowledge that the infrastructure is very different, the needs of drivers are very different, etc…but there were almost no American cars outside of vans (usually electric) and the small hatchbacks that Ford still sells over there.
I understand that the American manufacturers don’t want to do anything but sell Americans massive trucks on absurd loans and that nothing matters other than the next earnings call…but holy shit. We are going to be irrelevant in most first world markets within the next decade, and Chinese EVs are one of the main reasons.
I don’t know if there’s anything that can be done at this point, either. Really the only way to compete was for the gubment to stack the deck and for the manufacturers to go all in on EVs many years ago. Instead we made EVs culture war red meat and quadrupled down on our own bullshit, as Americans do.
The BUT MUHHHHH V8 crowd is enjoying their victory laps right now but boy they’re not going to be celebrating in a few years, and again in proud American tradition everyone is going to be standing around screaming “we couldn’t have possible seen this coming!!!!” and begging for some socialism to get them out of the pickle….
Exactly. Piggies always enjoy rolling around in their own filth, thinking it means something and they can’t be convinced otherwise.
Victory laps around the gas station as the numbers roll in from their 8mpg behemoths with the obligatory raised suspensions and 36 inch off-road tires. (as if they ever leave the tarmac…). LOL, special prize to the coal roller diesel truck twits at $7/gallon. This is going to be fun to watch and I only buy organic popcorn from the Amish in 6 pound bags. I seem to recall it was all about the price of eggs back in the day, or was it straight up racist misogeny?
What’s the running joke? “Under Biden I could only put $75 worth of gas in my truck, under Trump I put a whole $120 worth of gas! Thanks Trump!”
You’ll need a 3/4 ton truck bed to transport 6 lbs of popcorn!
I’m hoping it will fit in the Lexus beast. Now you have me wondering what the actual volume of 6 pounds of popcorn would look like…Hmmm
Spent roughly 12 days each in Italy and Greece in the last 5 years. Tasks done by massive trucks in cities here are handled by 3 wheel box trikes or Transit vans. Food delivery is by a scooter with an insulated container. Transit and high speed trains just work. The populace is accostomed to walking/biking/transit in the urban areas (granted the climate helps).
I realize it is comparing apples and oranges, but our utter resisance to adopting urban/rural solutions that work elsewhere is maddening.
The same is mostly true in more northerly European cities, too.
My local major city (Pittsburgh) has greatly expanded bike/pedestrian lanes in recent years. Lost a lot of on-street parking in the process, but the now meterless system somewhat compensates. I also think it has improved traffic flow TBH. We do have decent mass transist from some areas if not out too late at night. The Subway is cost free inside of Downtown and out to the stadiums/North Shore.
When I worked Downtown regularly (pre-Covid) I drove to one of many Park & Ride lots and rode the bus to town. Schedule flexibility was what was lacking. I can also park at multiple places and bike a few miles into town if feeling froggy – we often do this on July 4 holiday. Have a picnic in the park and bike in on the trail for the fireworks.
It’s awesome to see a midwestern city making these kinds of investments!
We are far from perfect, and the unhoused crisis has hit us hard. Getting around here is better than ever. There is no shame in parking at a lot and riding in on the bus/subway/boat/bike. Just watch the timetable and weather.
Pittsburgh is a Mid-Atlantic city, not a Midwestern city, despite how many people here wish it was.
No, Pittsburgh is just Pittsburgh. Not midwest, not mid-atlantic, not the south, not the Great Lakes. All are within a 2 hour drive, but it is unique. The Paris of Appalacia.
My city of San Jose is widely considered the Paris of the west. Mostly because I made that up but partly because we have our own big tower which Eiffel may or may not have cribbed his from:
https://www.sanjoselighttower.com/
> Mostly because I made that up
I was gonna say… The only commonality between Paris and San Jose is there’s an A and an S in both names.
We do have have better weather and fewer mosquitoes.
Pittsburg is a midwestern city?
*consults wikipedia*
Nope. Looks like the census bureau draws the border at Ohio:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_United_States
Pittsburgh is just Pittsburgh. A former industrial base transformed to healthcare and education. We somehow survived all the economic downturns since the ’70s
I’m sorry. I meant Rust Belt industrial. Midwest just … popped out.
Ah, that makes more sense. Thank you for clarifying.
I live in a semi-rural area. I have 2 supermarkets and other shopping in a 1/2 mile radius. And actually walking there is cheating death. No sidewalks, just a white line on the highway while dodging groundhog holes, trash and weeds. No cross walks over the highways. Even an E-bike is sketch as traffic runs at 50 mph. Better to just use the Hybrid.
Yep. on the positive side, it’s been at least 2 months since I’ve been smogged out by a diesel-fired “Bro-dozer” rolling coal in my direction. I think the near $7/gallon pain is putting the kibosh on that nonsense.
Maybe change is coming sooner than later.
Reaction to Trump’s environmentally hostile policies may actually make this a greener country in the end.
That’s the one potential silver lining. Electrifying everything and powering it with renewable (and nuclear where needed) energy is suddenly looks wonderful. Can’t beat fuel cost of zero.
That said, siting renewable energy properly is critical. We should be putting rooftop solar and small batteries everywhere. And looking at brownfields or marginal farmland first for utility scale solar. We need some open fields for the wildlife that can’t coexist with solar farms.
I looked into rooftop solar a few years ago, but really need a new roof first to make it make sense. The savings couldn’t justify the outlay.
Ideally it would get mostly paid for by the government. Call it the “civil defense grid resilience program” or something like that.
I’m kinda hoping for “storm damage”, then knock it all out at once. I love the idea of solar, but at 20k plus a new roof it is a complete non starter.
In principal I agree but the eggheads say commercial solar farms are still a lot more economical and efficient use of panels than rooftop solar. The shade they create is great for animals and even some plants too.
You can go a long way to lowering your energy use by covering your roof with IR reflecting materials though.
There was a noticeable reduction in my attic temps when I installed rooftop solar. It definitely isn’t a primary reason to install it, but it is a nice side benefit.
You are right though, solar farms are generally empirically better and the actual benefit of roof top solar is a case by case answer. The 1100W draw I have for 10 hours a day (swimming pool pump) went a long way toward making the numbers work for me…
If.you don’t already have one your next step should be a variable or two speed pump set to turn the water over once every 24 hrs. Energy consumption goes up CUBICALLY with flow so if you’re turning the water over in 10 hours you may stand to drop your energy consumption by more than 10x if you drop that speed to once every 24 hrs. 24hrs IIRC is the minimum flow needed to keep a pool clean.
I looked into this almost 20 years ago and the payback even then was about a year for the fancy pump. Today there may be even cheaper options and energy has only gotten more expensive.
Sure you’ll have to use nighttime non solar power to keep it running but it should free up some solar capacity for daytime use. Or maybe you can charge a battery for running the pool at night.
Next would be a heat pump water heater. If you heat house and/or pool water with electricity the energy savings these things offer can also pay off very quickly and well within the warranty.
Of course rooftop solar.heating is a solid.option too.
I’d also look into converting the pool to salt water with UV sterilizing and an electrical chlorine generator. Way less maintainence and easier on swimmers than dumping chlorine in every couple.of days. Cheaper too.
You may have already done or at least considered these things. If so how’d they work out in your case?
The running for 10 hrs per day seems to be the point where filtration and circulation lessens the need for additional chemicals (I use bromine, mainly due to temps). As far as heating, I really only need it when I first open to quickly get the temperature to the upper 70’s for bromine absorption. After that, passive solar heating alone (through the light beige cover) is enough to keep it in the 90’s by early June.
Hindsight being 20/20, I should have replaced the heater with a heat pump (for chilling capacity) when I did it a couple years ago. I’ll admit I overestimated the difference going to a light colored cover would make and I changed them at the same time so I was just kind of guessing.
I forgot to mention that my heating is done by a natural gas heater. Annual heating costs might be $100, since it’s so lightly used. Between replacement cost (even diy) and such low operating cost, the math just doesn’t math for non-mechanically necessary replacement.
24 hrs at half the rate of flow should give results comparable to what you have now but with far less energy.
As to the water heater I had originally thought of a heater for house water rather than a pool. They come in both flavors though. If you’re heating your pool with gas I assume the home water heater is gas too.
IMHO it’s still worth looking into the heat pump water heater. About 20% of a typical home’s energy consumption is for heating water. When I ran the numbers with rebates from my utility and state the ROI was about a year vs an electric heater and between 3-4 on a comparable gas heater. The warranty on the heater was 12 years and I would hazard to guess it would probably go much longer if its zincs are maintained. Unfortunately it was an academic exercise since I rent and my landlord had recently put in a new gas unit.
Unfortunately for both I’d have the added cost of running a dedicated 220 line to both to the ROI calculations which skews things pretty dramatically. I’ve looked into changing everything to electric where it’s cost effective since I have roof top solar, but there are still some things where it just doesn’t realistically make sense or makes sense to put them off until theres some other reason to be “in there”.
For the home water heater, the breaker panel is on a different floor at the other end of the house, so it would easily double or triple the cost of a change over by the time all is said and done if I were to only be upgrading the water heater. I do have a project next year which may necessitate opening a good chunk of the drywall in question so I’m not closing the book on this. I’ll likely run the 220 line at the same time to make this a future option…
For the pool, it would involve trenching and subsequent concrete repairs around about half the perimeter of a 1/3 acre lot. This just feels like a lot of cost and hassle to save about $100/year.
I have however been looking into multispeed pumps since you mentioned it. That may be an upgrade for this summer depending on some other projects that are already on the schedule.
Glad to hear it but I gotta ask; Do you actually need to run 220? 110V heat pump water heaters have been around for a while:
https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/the-plug-in-heat-pump-water-heater-is-here/
Saturday was the first coal roller I’ve seen in I honestly can’t remember how long. Ironically it was right by a gas station with $5.50(ish) diesel. It kind of felt like looking at someone as out of touch as a guy with a haggard 200hp late 70’s muscle car showing up to a C&C like it wouldn’t get embarrassed by a hybrid minivan.
If American manufacturers don’t want to do anything but sell Americans massive America! FUCK YEAH! trucks(TM) on absurd loans and that nothing matters other than the next earnings call what does it matter to them that their products are going to be irrelevant in most first world markets within the next decade, and Chinese EVs are one of the main reasons?
If the rest of the world can’t quality for the absurd loans needed to buy (or lease) our massive America! FUCK YEAH! trucks(TM) and afford the gas they guzzle the rest of the world can just FO in their resentment and secretly envy our greatness.
I loled.
The domestic automakers do have a foothold in the middle east.
Also you’ll need to pry muhhhh (vintage) V8s out of my cold dead hands. :p
Yep, the need to politicize every, single, damn, thing and subsequent change paralysis is why we’ll continue to be left further and further behind…
I’m sure that The Man With A Seat Cushion For A Brain will assiduously follow through on any auto-industry discussion with Xi.
Lemmings being led off the cliff…
I currently drive a chinese-built swedish-branded car, so… I guess.
My hardcore maga mother in law drives a Chinese built, American branded car (Buick Envision) and would be very angry if she found out.
You didn’t put that in her mothers day card?
I made it a point at Christmas to let it slip in front of the MAGA side of my family that I have a Chinese EV now.
… Tell her at Thanksgiving dinner.
I just spent a few weeks in Mexico and Chinese cars were everywhere. BYD, GWM, Geely and several others. The only one I rode in was a Geely and it was pretty nice. I can’t say that I would buy one simply due to service and parts availability, but I see no reason why we shouldn’t allow buyers the choice to purchase one here.
TBQ: Only if it was union made. American car companies had decades to get their head out their ass and be competitive and instead of hiring more engineers, they hired more lawyers to weasel out of actually innovating. As long as workers still have good paying jobs, the billionaire profiting is irrelevant
They’re not “weaseling”, they’re lobbying.
A time honored tradition for companies of a certain size to plead to their government for handouts, tax breaks, and walled gardens.
Yup, and when a competitor shows up with a better product because they invested in engineering, we get sob stories and jingoism instead of fixing the problem.
It’s only socialism when it’s people, and not corporations (or farmers) getting government subsidies.
You spelled “bribe” wrong I think
So, I take it you wouldn’t buy a Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Kia, or Hyundai then? The Japanese and Korean brands make tons of cars here and still pay folks well without the UAW robbing the employees blind.
There’s no discussion to be had if you think labor unions are the bad guys
You seem knowledgeable about labor unions. Can you explain the public benefits of prevailing wage jobs the government pays unions? How does making projects more expensive benefit the public? Something I’ve never understood.
What’s the advantage of paying the very citizens who have chosen to build our bridges, roads, and the rest of our infrastructure less than if it were a private contract?
I don’t know about you but when it comes to public works projects, I don’t want the cheapest, I want it done well and as safe as possible.
Is that how it works? My plumber friends are paid $30 an hour extra on PW jobs compared to private work. How is paying them an additional $30 per hour benefiting the public?
Most trade unions aren’t, the UAW is though. They will happily rob their membership of money and benefits, while also screwing over the many to protect a garbage employee.
You give cheese a bad name, and as I am from Wisconsin I know of what I speak.
Isn’t all this China car nonsense really just Japan car nonsense all over again? Didn’t domestic auto makers just sell “captive imports” for 20 years? Just import and rebadge, or build on license like people have forever. It’s fine. There is nothing special about US automakers. They are the same as any other. If they don’t have good ideas, then pay for some.
Exactly, then never learn from the very technology they put their name on.
The difference is that Japan is effectively a vassal of the US which was used in the Cold War to ‘contain communism’, while China is a geopolitical enemy.
Similar could be said about the South Korean autos; the Chevy Trax & Trailblazer and Buick Envista & Encore are made (and at least partially, if not fully, engineered) by GM Korea, the remnants of Daewoo auto.
Geo political enemy is a bit much. They are just the boogie man that is used to get people to vote against their interests. I have seen several come and go so far and none were such an enemy that there was anything to do about it in the end.
Right? Remember when communists were the enemy, until the facists became our friends enemies, then they became our enemies. Then communists were our best friends. When our good communist comrades defeated the facists the communists became our enemies again. So we hired some of the worst of the facists to fight communists and help destroy democracies to make the world safe for democracy.
And now we’re the fascists chumming with the communists, except when they’re small and have oil.
Given the words shared when Carney opened up the Canadian market to Chinese cars, I assume that trump believes each car with a tie to China also has a small Democrat hanging out in the trunk.
(Side note – the cars have started showing up here! It’s exciting to see the big old middle finger in action)
I’d expect the conversations to be around AI, Data centers, chipsets and chicken balls.
Taking pictures, and writing back home all the state secrets.
It’s a modern rendition of the red scare.
Chicken balls?
They’re made from processing male chickens.
Ah… chicken meatballs. Duly noted. Thanks!
I wouldn’t buy a Chinese car no matter where it is built. Zero interest in what they are putting out. The chances of them making anything I have the slightest interest in is roughly the same as my getting on a flight to Mars. And that is before getting into the geopolitics of it. The upper class screwed the rest of us to make a buck already. I don’t feel a need to help with that. Bad enough that in so many cases I literally have no choice. But I sure do in cars.
The list of American-designed cars I have any interest in is *extremely* short too. Technically, I have bought one “American-owned” car new, but it was a Saab 9-3SC… And of 40+ cars owned, one actually American car, a Jeep.
And that water break will take around 2 weeks if they are lucky. It sucks for people living in the area. I remember when my pipes froze in my previous home (they didnt burst luckily) and not having running water for a day what a pain…
States here before own a Polestar 2 so already own a Chinese built car. So to me it all matters on if it is a deal or not and if they are actually reliable good cars. Nothing they have over there strikes my fancy from their brands. Really wish the new Jimny’s were here but at this point just waiting for the R3X and Scouts (if VW doesn’t cancel them)
I really, really, really hope that R3X gets made and still looks like the concept.
Ditto. I wanted to go the ioniq 5 but size wise it is almost small minivan or CUV vs sedan/hot hatch.
Coming from my old BRZ my P2 still feels like a Tahoe. I don’t want anything bigger.
Hah I had a RF Miata for about 6 months I traded in for the PS2. But before that I (and still have) my FJ and D250 so yeah much nicer daily for the those 2 hah.
My rural conservative family nearly disowned us 26 years ago when we bought a Hyundai. Well modern politics has now had them disown us completely so…
Yes I would if met our needs and was affordable with a good warranty.
I had a friend who lived in rural North Carolina in the mountains who sadly passed away (he’d claim to live in a small ‘town’, which is near a slightly larger ‘town’, nearby another small ‘town’ – eventually you’d hit a city, like Asheville, in that string).
He claimed to be the only person in his whole family, and within a 30min drive of him, to own a Japanese brand car (he also had an old dodge pickup).
Things may have changed over the ensuing years since I’d been there last to see him, but I don’t see that area changing much.
You can play the guessing game if there are more tattoo parlours or churches in any one of those ‘towns’ you drive through to get there and each time it’s both oddly close, and an inordinately high number of them.
My wife’s grandpa fought in the Korean War. From what I’ve heard (he died before I met my wife), he was very racist against basically all Asians, and was probably rolling over in his grave when my wife and I showed up at the family reunion in a Hyundai.
My wife’s grandfather who fought in Korea was OK with our Hyundai. He was also an electrical engineer and had 3, 1/2 Chinese grandsons by that point. My father explained how Marine bootcamp in 1953 brainwashed him against Asians. The war ended before he was sent over.
I just brokered the most greatest deal with Jyna! President Xi was a tough negotiator but I forced their hand and they had no choice. Many said it could not be done, but not me. I always knew I’d bring back a deal like no other, quite frankly. A five-star general came to me after the deal was signed, tears in his eyes – very attactive General actually, big broad shoulders, nice blond hair and blue eyes – and he says to me “Mr. President… I never thought a deal like this could be achieved.” Which is a word, by all accounts; I was told “achieved” is a word; no really, look it up. Maybe it’s a word invented by Democrats, you never know. Like that “affordabilty” hoax, but what they weren’t counting with is that I’m actually the best at affordability. Practically grew up affording things, it runs in my family. That’s why, effective immediate, all chinese automakers are now free to do their business in the USA – President Xi guarantees they’re affordable! Not only that, I just saved our automakers a ton of money, a TON of money! They’ll no longer be selling cars in Jyna, can you imagine how much they’ll save on all the cars they won’t have to make? Costs a pretty penny to make a car, trust me. When you save money like that you get more affordability – not many people know that, but I do. My uncle was an MIT professor, and he always afforded things too, so I learned how to afford with a literal MIT genius who was my uncle. But the Democrats, oh my god. Horrible, horrible people, all of them quite frankly, the true cancer destroying America with votes from illegal aliens. Their affordability hoax is going nowhere, I tell ya.
FANTASTIC!!
You missed “like nobody as ever seen before”
Nailed it. It’s like you are clairvoyant or something.
There is someone I would like thrown under a bus while in China, but it’s not the US automakers.
Not even a few of the executives?? Come on …
There is plenty of room under that bus.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Dude, you read minds?
I guess we all expect the same from Trump at this point, and it’s always the worst case scenario for American people.
Problem with being able to read minds is all the blank media out there.
Works wonders for propagandists.
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An upvote isn’t enough for how beautifully and effectively you turned my stomach. The “affordability”/”afforded things” leitmotif is masterful.
Haha thanks! I guess we’ve been so bombarded with Trump’s “weave” for the past decade, anyone could really come up with something similar if they had a couple of minutes to kill like I had 🙂
Now I need some 4L trivia as a palate cleanser after that horrible brilliant comment of yours.
I gotcha! Did you know that when Renault announced the end of the production run, the portuguese government scrambled to order hundreds of white GTLs from the Novo Mesto plant to restock numerous public institutions’ fleets? The total numbers are unclear and very disputed, but conservative estimates put it at around 300. A few of those are still in active duty (very few at this point, but 5-6 years ago they were still in the double digits – I’m not so sure that’s the case today).
The ones still in use aren’t forced on anyone; they’re kept because a few public servants just don’t want to use any other car. This is not without controversy, though; in 2018, one of those more stubborn civil servants had a mechanical failure that caused him to cross lanes and hit a truck head-on, and he died instantly. That was the driving factor for most of the last few dozens to be retired from service in the meantime.
EDIT: FANTASTIC new screen name btw.
“He pronounces ‘China’ like a toddler who just learned the name for her genitals”
-Seth Meyers
“Don’t forget I was the smartest Turd in my class at Wharton.”
This is gold! Shiny, beautiful gold! Nobody’s ever seen anything like it!
The deal kicks in “in two weeks”
I was going to add another like to your comment, but you’re at 69 and as a 38 year old who stopped maturing at 12, I just couldn’t. Know that I appreciate it anyways!
It’s pretty good! Perhaps could use more Randomly capitalized “Words” And quotation “Marks.”
I was thinking more of him speaking rather than a social media post, but I get you. I was just doing “the weave” as he calls it.
Not sure about a Chinese car but I’m currently shopping for a UTV. For the price and features I want I can either get a Chinese built CFmoto that is only a few years old, or I can get a Polaris that is much older. Decisions, decisions…
Have you also looked into Mahindra or Kymco? If there are any dealers local that is. Not sure exactly what you are looking for though.
I just need something to do some work around my property. Dragging fields, plowing my driveway, hauling wood, limbs and other debris. The area is large enough to justify a vehicle for it but small enough that any vehicle would be underutilized, this basically means I can’t justify spending too much on it to get something new or close to new, but something that won’t cause headaches is the goal, and if I’m able to have a little fun on it in addition, all the better.
Im full in Kawasaki mule. Even an old one is better than a new polaris. You can beat them like a rented… mule.
Gigantic LOL at the “THERES ONLY ONE WAGONEER S” banner because you can make your own mad-libs addendum to it. Only one… “model year”, or “Sold this month”, or “We think, nobody knows what Wagoneer is anymore.” Stellantis didn’t understand the concept of home-field advantage and decided to go crazy scoring own-goals.
There can be only one.
It’s the Jeep Royale with Cheese.
And I think one is about how many of them Stellantis has sold.
I would be more likely to buy a Chinese car built here than an American car built there, but not very likely to buy either.
I hope to never have to do to buy a Chinese made car. I also hope that there’s a competitively priced American made option.
One day we’ll wake up to what the Koreans and the Chinese are doing and try and compete on price without government intervention making foreign products higher priced.
We already buy so much Chinese stuff on Amazon and Temu most of the car buying public won’t even blink at it.
“I hope to never have to do to buy a Chinese made car”
You may have already bought a car with Chinese made parts. Or fixed/modified your car with Chinese made parts.
You’re highly likely to be right about the first part, however due to incentives I only lease new cars (EVs) so to my knowledge nothing has been fixed or modified.
The current car came from Ingolstadt, Germany. Audi partner with the Chinese to make the local market version of the car out in China, so there could be bleed over of parts for sure.
We already have Chinese-built American branded cars, so why not an American-made Chinese name car?
BTO, now that brings back memories, thanks Matt
“That’s BTO. They were Canada’s answer to ELP. Their biggest hit was TCB. That was how we talked in the seventies. We didn’t have a moment to spare.”
Today some colleagues were having a meeting with Australia and I took advantage to reference the classic globe, Australia and Rand McNally moment.
“It was the LSD.”
It’s called the Lake Shore Drive.
GTFO with that BS.
Would you buy an American-built, Chinese-branded car?
Absolutely, liking that it’s local labor getting the work, preferably unionized. We live in a global economy, so it makes sense to source materials and design where practical.
China already has a variety of proper E-REVs that the US market is lacking. Build fully electric E–REV sedans, small hatches, a minivan and CUVs. Give the skateboard a large enough battery to go ~80 miles (or more) on an overnight (120v) charge, and drop in an efficient purpose-built range extender/generator happy meal with enough of a gas tank to go another 400 miles and you’ve got a winner. Go with 48v wiring, all the safety nannies, and real physical controls and buttons. Build it with 1-motor and 2-motor (AWD) options then just watch the orders roll in. If US manufacturers won’t do it, China is welcome to come in (see Mazda 6e and CX6e as examples, and drool over the Mazda Vision and Mazda Ionic concept cars)
We DON’T need another big-ass 3-row SUV or pickup E-REV. The upcoming F-150 E-REV, RAM E-REV and SCOUT E-REV are all targeting the AWD large vehicle / adventure market. We need practical, efficient, small, fast, fun EREVS for the rest of us.
I for one, welcome our Chinese E-REV overlords.
We drive two American-built, Japanese-branded cars now, and I just verified that our American-branded truck was built in Kentucky. Bring on the E-REV 1/4T pickups plz.
“We DON’T need another big-ass 3-row SUV or pickup E-REV”
The funny part about this is that basically all the Chinese automakers are currently introducing new flagship 3-row EREVs like their lives depend on it in the past 18 months. To be fair, most of them already have the other segments covered already.
TBQ: no, mainly because I live in Europe. But I wouldn’t mind buying a Chinese car in general. If they are good, it doesn’t matter where they are coming from.
Also the article title: “ The Auto Industry Is Hoping The President Doesn’t Throw Them Under The Bus In China”. Or crushed their dreams?
Would you buy an American-built, Chinese-branded car?
No. I’m not going to come up with a rationale. I just don’t want to buy a Chinese-branded car, even if I don’t care that damn near everything else I own was made in China.
Would you buy a Chinese-built, American-branded car?
Maybe? I would prefer one not built in China, but I suspect at least some parts of my American-branded vehicles ostensibly built here were made in China, so I’m less bothered by this.
To me, driving a Chinese-branded vehicle feels like I would be outwardly supporting China. I don’t have a problem with China in general, but they are the biggest rival of the US and they appear to play with a looser set of rules than on international trade than the West.
Driving a Chinese-branded vehicle in 2026 America to me seems like driving a Soviet-branded vehicle in America during the Cold War. I wouldn’t have driven a Lada Niva in the ’70s or ’80s, although I would love to own a Lada Niva today.
China plays by an extremely strict set of rules. It’s just that those rules were set by the PRC for the exclusive benefit of China.
Fair point.
I can’t say I am even upset that China acts in the best interest of China, but that doesn’t mean I will support their efforts.
Also fair point! I was kind of joking, but just wanted to point out that they basically have a totalitarian government (which probably supports your decision not to buy!).
I think sometimes the totalitarian nature of China’s government is lost on people. While we have some issues of our own here, we are still free to express our opinions (which I do quite vocally, if not on this website) and can vote for whoever we want to.
I acknowledge I am biased by being an American, but I think we are doing some things better than the rest of the world. We can always improve, though.
> We can always improve, though.
Stopping the decline of all those freedoms would be a good start.
I have been flamed in the comments here for suggesting that Americans have more freedoms than China. Obviously the current administration is trying to change that, but it’s naive to think things are as bad here as they are there (in that aspect).
“I wouldn’t have driven a Lada Niva in the ’70s or ’80s”
Not a Niva nor in the US but I did drive my grandmother’s Lada 2101 in the 80’s. I’ve driven a LOT worse.
Just slap a “I bought this after Elon went crazy” bumper sticker on it.
With the worry about the catering in your dream, I would have thought the song would be Takin’ Care of Business with the misheard lyrics “Bakin’ carrot biscuits”.
Reminds me of how I felt when I was told Eddie Money’s 1986 hit about a plea to end the evening at someone else’s home wasn’t actually titled “Bake Me Scones Tonight.” Guess nothing feeds the earworm monster like crumbly pastry.
Why is everybody concerned about the the United States Marine Corp? What’s with it? Are they being mistreated? Better not be. What? the USMCA, not the USMC? Oh, that’s different then, never mind.
From the Halls of Hermosillo to the shores of Ontario…
Maybe it’s like the YMCA…
Think I’m showing my age here. Google Emily Litella.
Classic SNL!
To the Canadians, it’s CUSMA. What is it to the Mexicans?
Delicious muscat.