The new Toyota RAV4 is very good, this much is true. Is it so good that you should wait for one over a Honda CR-V Hybrid? That’s a matter of preference, I suppose, but I find it hard to swallow waiting weeks or even months for a mainstream, high volume car. I guess I’m alone, because RAV4s are selling at a wild rate and the waitlists keep growing.
Some of this is caused by the predictable and common switchover between generations, as the plants that make the newly redesigned RAV4 had to retool in order to make the vehicle. A lot of it is just extremely strong demand for the popular, efficient, reasonably affordable crossover. In order to help with the demand RAV4 Hybrids are starting to finally roll out at the company’s Georgetown, Kentucky plant, and that should provide an additional 40,000 units a year.
Will that be enough? Probably not. There’s no breakdown last year between hybrid and non-hybrid sales, but the company sold more than 400,000 of these things last year, and the new car is hybrid only, so I expect it to sell the same or even better. Why do I believe that?
From Selling Days To Selling Hours
I write about the chart above all the time, that is produced by Cox Automotive and shows the amount of inventory for each brand and the nation as a whole, which it measures in Days’ Supply, which is to say the number of days at the current selling rate it would take for all the inventory to be depleted. The national average is about 76 as of May, with Toyota and Lexus way at the left with barely a month’s worth of inventory due to how popular its cars are and how tight its production.
For the RAV4, at least, days is no longer an accurate measure. According to Automotive News there’s a new figure:
On June 16, the nation’s 1,237 Toyota dealers collectively had 967 unsold RAV4 hybrids and 719 RAV4 plug-in hybrids.
At least that’s what they started with that morning — but not where they ended that night.
“It’s so hot, we’re counting inventory in hours’ supply right now, not days,” said Damon Rose, vice president of sales for the Toyota division of Toyota Motor North America. “Our turn rate was 97.6 percent last month — that means 97.6 percent of RAV4s available for sale in May were sold. I never thought I’d live long enough to hear about a statistic like that, but it just speaks to the demand we’re seeing for [our] bestselling vehicle in the United States.”
Selling hours is wild! By comparison, it takes Dodge 148 days to sell out of its inventory, and that number is an average, so cars like the Dodge Hornet are probably even higher.
Is Mr. Rose being hyperbolic? I don’t think so. If a dealer gets an allotment or 40 new RAV4s a month and there’s a waiting list of more than 40 people than it takes less than a day to sell a car. According to Automotive News, that’s happening:
At Longo Toyota in El Monte, Calif., more than 800 customers are waiting for a 2026 Toyota RAV4 — and that waitlist keeps growing despite the dealership delivering over 200 of the redesigned crossovers in May alone.
And Earl Stewart Toyota in Lake Park, Fla., presold each of the 40 new RAV4s offered on its website, weeks or months before delivery.
While markets vary, this is a car that’s popular coast-to-coast, so even if a one-off rural dealer is sitting on the car it makes sense that overall demand has outpaced production. Will this last forever? Probably not. With the addition of Georgetown, the plants will likely catch up at some point. If you don’t want to wait, though, there’s a good alternative.
Why Not A Subaru Forester?
Because Toyota owns part of Subaru, the related companies share a lot of the same technology and the new Forester has similar performance to the RAV4. Thomas drove both of them back-to-back, and had this to say:
It’s safe to say the new Toyota RAV4 going all-hybrid is a big deal, because it means more people than ever will be able to experience awesome fuel economy for the segment. Between efficiency and the sheer range of trims on offer, the 2026 Toyota RAV4 is the best hybrid in its class, and it features a pretty slick new tech suite that’s remarkably user-friendly.
However, if you’re the sort of person to buy a car based on purely physical attributes, the Forester Hybrid feels like a better crossover. It has a bit more passenger space, a bit more comfort, and a bit more soft-road capability. Both are great choices for a daily driver, but if it were my money on the line for a U.S.-spec example and I had to buy one, I’d personally take the Subaru.
Just buy a Forester! Words you’re definitely used to me saying… though I personally bought a CR-V Hybrid, which has been great so far.
Top graphic images: Toyota; DepositPhotos.com
People sure have boring tastes in cars. The new Rav4 looks like a deep freezer.
Like the Doctor Who episode “Blink”. You’ll be walking through the parking lot, blink, and find yourself surrounded by a bunch of gray RAV4’s coming to for you. They don’t send you back in time hundreds of year, though. They suck all automotive curiosity out of you so you’ll join them in your own gray Conformist Utility Vehicle.
I love that episode!
Many moons ago a colleague was trying to get me into Doctor Who and that was the episode he insisted I watch.
It worked.
Blink is an all time great Doctor Who episode. Amusingly, The Doctor and his companion are more peripheral characters in this episode. I was really expecting Sally Sparrow to become a new companion but as far as I know we never see her again.
Dr. Who scared the shit out of me when I was a little kid. I recall it came on at night on our local PBS station. The sort of crude looking costumes made it so much weirder. At least to my 7 year old brain.
It was explained to me as Doctor Lite episode. Apparently a tactic to manage costs.
To me it stands out because it has Martha Jones as the companion and her tenure is short.
Maybe, but it will actually start and take you where you need to go (and back) every single day for years.
Unlike most other Toyotas, where our local dealers pretend to have inventory but they’re really “in production – available in September” they don’t even pretend to have a RAV4 Hybrid to sell you.
Forrester is not an option (well, neither is RAV4) due to the fact that I have eyes.
Yeah, both are terrible looking. I had hopes that the restyled Rav4 was going to look better because Toyota had been putting out some decent looking designs recently, but that was certainly not the case. And Subaru has apparently been hiring blind designers for the past 6 years. I don’t get it.
Folks getting all giddy over a little Toyota SUV-shaped thing that gets maybe 40mph if you’re lucky and in the not-offroad trim.
Meanwhile the rest of the planet gets the Toyota Corolla Hybrid Wagon – and mpg from 40 to 50mpg (80% of UK MPG numbers, which are 50-62mpg)
And are folks ignoring the Prius – which is solidly in the mid-50 mpg range? I rarely see the new ones here in Virginia.
The SUV delusion is palpable.
Oh man, we get the wagon but no AWD. They are everywhere here in nordics. Damn AWD would be nice. Not to mention of Camry or Lexus ES would be available in AWD wagon form. Damn they would carve quite chunk of Germans wagon pie.
The Corolla estates are everywhere here too. Mostly taxis though.
The new Prius is pretty cramped, and obviously not everyone cares about maximal fuel economy. But, especially if you’re going to spend $40,000 to $50,000 of your hard-earned dollars, it’s hard to argue with a do-everything car like the RAV4, especially if it’s actually going to stay in one piece until you pay it off.
Yeah my wife decided against the Prius as it felt too claustrophobic and I agree it’s like that, especially with a dark interior.
If I have to fold myself into a car the height of my belly button, I’ll take a Porsche.
Doesn’t make sense to buy a $50,000 car to save money when you can buy an ICE car similar to the Prius for $30,000 and have $20,000 for gas at less than $4 a gallon buy 5,000 gallons and go 100,000 miles before you break even
My PHEV has used only about 1400 gallons of gas in nine years. That’s 155 gallons per year, or $500 at prevailing prices. That wouldn’t begin to amortize against the EVs of the year I bought it, 2017. You can’t save more gas than you use.
Or you could buy an actual Prius for $28,550 starting and go 250k miles on that 5,000 gallons.
In fuel economy terms, the difference between 40 and 50 mpg is trivial.
25% is no joke, it’s just not enough for people to give up other things. Other things being their Ego, folding themselves into a car at belly button height, etc.
If you drive 15,000 miles a year at $4/gallon, that is a difference of 75 gallons/year, $300/year. Most people buying new cars are probably fine spending that much for what they consider a more comfortable car.
I’m a the upper end of driving, roughly 28k miles a year. I daily a paid off 32mpg highway car. That’s $3800 a year rounding up at $4/gal, which is still significantly cheaper per year than any financed new car, even at 50mpg.
I’m definitely above the miles/yr where MPG matters, but when you’re spending that much time in a vehicle you’ll happily trade a couple mpg for a more comfortable car to be in.
I’ve even done the math, going 75mph instead of 70 drops me to 28mpg, and costs another $200 a year.
I think the Corolla estate is only available in Europe and possibly Japan.
Yes – Europe and Japan.
Which is sad.
Prius isn’t exactly a do everything family car, even though I do like the new one.
No argument against the Corolla Wagon though, wish we had those.
CUVs have taken over everything for few reasons that combined make them the default choice for tons of people.
Good enough fuel economy. Jumping from 20mpg to 30 is a 50% savings, 30 to 40 is only 33%. 40 to 50 is 25%. IMO 30mpg is the tipping point where people tend to care less about the specific number and other features start overruling additional efficiency.Buyers want height/visibility. The 90s/2000s SUV craze permanently altered how tall a vehicle should be. They want to be able to easily see over cars, despite other CUVs doing the exact same thing. They also want to slide/step out of a a vehicle rather than climb out of it. This facet is especially true with older people, of which there’s a ton of baby boomers with new car money.Everything else is good enough. FWD or AWD for bad weather/snow. Enough ground clearance to avoid road debris/roadkill. All the tech crap the neighbors have. Comfortable for a 6hr road trip or hour commute. Maybe even a hitch to show how rugged you are.The only reasons EVs are bringing cars back is because they can’t take the range hit with more frontal cross section.
Families with young kids also really benefit from the higher height of a CUV. Buckling a kid into a car seat is much more comfortable at CUV height.
Right-o. Another factor is that car drivers feel uneasy looking at truck bumpers at eye level.
If you pass on your RAV4 allotment someone else who wants basically the same thing will buy it from under you in 24 hours. This is how my brother in law got his RAV4 hybrid. He left a family function to go sign paperwork because he got a phone call asking if he wanted it at a barbecue.
I am a little confused.
No, it’s not because of a weekend of binge drinking, rather it is because this article is making it seem as if the sales of this new Rav4 are unprecedented.
Except that they aren’t.
Yeah, it is selling well, but calm down a bit because if the 2026 numbers are anything like the 2025 numbers, the Ford F150 will still sell 2X as many full-size pickups as Toyota will sell Rav4s.
Is Autopian just republishing press releases again? Doing the job of various car maker’s marketing departments to boost excitement? Seems like it because as fast as the Rav4 is selling, Ford has been selling an ungodly number of F150s for decades upon decades. But once again the automotive press will always play-down any accomplishment by a domestic carmaker.
To make this article seem slightly less of a paid ad, maybe add that while the Rav4’s sales are measured in hours, the F150 are measured in minutes.
What a goofy argument. In the first place, FoMoCo doesn’t publish the F-150’s sales figures specifically; they are lumped into the broader F-Series sales figures.
Second, Ford also produces many more F-150s than does Toyota the RAV4, and they aren’t necessarily selling at the same rate. I think the stated sell-through rate was a good metric to determine how the RAV4 is doing. Selling ~97% of available inventory in a month is a pretty remarkable feat for any volume model. While the F-150 is immensely popular, I doubt 97% of F-150 inventory gets turned over in a single month, unless production gets *significantly* constrained. (Again, that doesn’t mean the F-150 isn’t a hot-seller; it very obviously is!) I’m sure the RAV4 won’t hold this pace forever. It’s a new model and eventually supply will outstrip demand. But it was worth mention.
Do you always use circular logic? See if you can follow along because it seems like you might easily stumble on facts and figures.
One year. 365 days. That’s the time frame for all these sales.
Since 2026 numbers won’t be known for another few months, in 2025, Toyota produced and sold 480,000 Rav4s.
In 2025, Ford produced and sold 830,000 F-series trucks (I originally stated F150s, but the F-series is the number they publish).
So regardless of how many hit dealer lots and for how long, since we are talking about the same time period, and Ford is selling essentially TWICE as many, then the average sales rate is going to be DOUBLE that of the Rav4. Yet there are no regurgitated press releases pretending to be “news” articles talking up that fact. I’m not even a Ford fan, and that number is staggering and should be celebrated.
Do you always shift your argument around?
As you said, Ford sold 830,000-odd F-series trucks (which is honestly fewer than I’d thought) across a year. That comprises the F-150, F-250, F-350, F-350 and F-450…which come in a dizzying array of body styles, powertrains, bed lengths, axle configurations and layouts, etc. They also make up a major portion of commercial sales that have little to do with the passenger-car market.
Of course they would all outsell the RAV4 considerably. Their use is much more widespread.
And no, that doesn’t meant the sales rate for the F-Series would be double that of the RAV4. That isn’t how math works. For starters, you have no idea how long those units were sitting around before they were sold. It’s possible (probable, even) that a good portion of sold units in 2025 were unpopular or oversaturated MY2024 trims that finally moved when enough cash was thrown upon them.
Again, I highly doubt that Ford is turning over 97% of available F-Series (or even F-150) inventory in a single month. Pretty much no one is, on any sort of volume model…which is why this RAV4 story is remarkable. Whatever biases you think that signifies against domestic automakers are…in your own head, honestly. Really, if Ford or GM or (especially) Stellantis ever did manage to pull off that feat on a volume compact-class crossover, it would probably be an even bigger news event because they are regarded as underdogs in that category.
ETA: I perused Ford Authority and GM Authority (they are run by the same people) for the following figures. Ford sold 801,525 F-Series units (comprising F-150, F-250 Super Duty, F-350 Super Duty and F-450 Super Duty) in 2025. General Motors sold 577,434 Silverados (comprising 1500, 2500 HD and 3500 HD models) on the Chevrolet side. It sold an additional 348,222 Sierra (comprising 1500, Heavy Duty 2500 and Heavy Duty 3500) units on the GMC side…for a total of 1,149,747 units. More than Ford, by some margin. In general, GM outsells Ford on pickup trucks each year; it just doesn’t lump them under a single brand and so can’t claim to be the best selling “series.” But obviously the Chevrolet and GMC models are versions of the same thing. So…should you not be arguing on behalf of GM?
What an absurd position. So just because Ford makes more configurations, it is somehow less of an accomplishment that they rack up so many sales? Its quite the opposite that they have the systems in place to track all those variations. And there are no foregone conclusions that “of course” it would sell in that high numbers.
But beyond that you act like the Rav4 doesn’t has a ridiculous number of trim levels. 6 trim levels which is fairly unheard of, with 2 distinct powertrains.
But this is all minutia because the core vehicles – stay the same. Its still the F-series selling at x2 the rate of the Rav4. If you are that bad at math that you don’t understand that, blame yourself, not Ford or anyone else. Ford is at 860,000 vehicles sold / 365 days. That’s the sales rate versus 480,000 Rav4 / 365. Here, I’ll do the math for you since clearly that is not your strong suit:
2356 sales / day for Ford
1315 sales / day for Toyota
Why are you bringing up GM in all this? Yeah, combined they do sell more trucks than Ford. You just want to deflect it now onto GM just because your argument is simply wrong? I could have just as easily picked them as I did Ford. Both sell at a far higher rate than the Rav4 does.
This is the dumbest screed I have read all month. Congrats.
Your math ain’t mathing and you’re too clueless or too stubborn to admit it.
Maybe I’m wrong but I imagine a good portion of F-150 sales are fleet and commercial. I would be curious to know the comparison of personal F-150 sales to the RAV4.
Right. The F-150 and RAV4 really are just not comparable models in terms of sales numbers. I’m not sure why this was brought up, other than (in my opinion unfounded) whining about how this site and the industry in general doesn’t regard domestic automakers highly enough.
The automotive press has been anti-American brand for decades. Auto journalists are so easily distracted by the “new shiny ball” so they will always give more attention to foreign makes as well as new brands than anything from the US.
You’ve offered no proof of that.
And he/she has none
And he never will. Did one round with him on this and it went nowhere. If you’re lucky, he eventually just blows a fuse, swears at you, and disappears for awhile.
But he’ll always be back, writing the same damn thing.
Yeah, talk about a totally pointless delusional comment w/ no substance at all
A complete and total MAGA Troll, he is…
Yes, it’s pointless. Like trying to convince a flat-earther than our planet is a sphere.
It was quite easy to be perceived as “anti-American brand” when American manufacturers turned out unmitigated crap while imported cars were better quality and better value.
Nowadays, American manufacturers either choose not to compete in significant segments of the market, or they turn out generally unmitigated crap with the occasional well-crafted model in the lineup.
But yeah – it’s a bit silly to wax poetic about how one vehicle is selling quickly when another vehicle is actually selling a shitload more.
Long gone are the days when Chevrolet sold over 1MM Impalas in a year.
It’s hilarious to hear people who post on car websites, and yet know fuck-all about the car industry. Still stuck in their 1987 mind-set and too ignorant or too pigheaded to realize its 2026.
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2026-us-vehicle-dependability-study-vds
Buick, Cadillac, Chevy are all in the top 10 for Vehicle Dependability. In fact they are all ABOVE Toyota.
Since you’re an absolute fuck-all wizard, why didn’t you cherry pick this one?
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/
8th, 17th, 18th, and 23rd place isn’t too shabby…for GM
Regarding Consumer Reports and their “predicted reliability”… that might be true for the first one or two owners in the first 5 years/100,000miles, but beyond that, I don’t believe that the BMW’s “predicted reliability” will be better than Mazda, Nissan or Acura.
Did you just post a list where BMW is 5th in reliability and think you were posting credible information?! LOL
Stick to whatever you might possibly be good at, but anything related to cars, ain’t it.
Well, seeing as how GM can’t seem to make V8’s that don’t auto-destruct these days I’m not sure I trust those accolades.
Around here I’d say maybe every other construction and contractor Co. are driving F-150’s. So does a lot of the local city staff and services. So yeah, a LOT of those sales numbers are obviously a big part. Besides- who’s cross shopping F-150’s and Rav4’s anyway?
” the Ford F150 will still sell 2X as many full-size pickups as Toyota will sell Rav4s.”
Not globally. Globally, Toyota sold over1.2 million RAV4s last year. How many Ford F150s did Ford sell globally? Probably around a million units globally
The F150 sells great in North America. But in a lot of other big markets, it’s practically unsellable and is only a low-volume niche vehicle.
Curiously enough the only region where RAV4 sales are going down is Europe.
I am sure it is being replaced by the smaller and cheaper Corolla Cross.
WE ONLY COUNT FREEDOM SALES, MANWICH.
They aren’t talking about absolute number of sales per year. Everyone knows that the F-Series is the top selling model in the US. What this article is talking about is how much inventory is available at dealerships. Can you go to a dealership and buy a Rav4 or F-150 today? For a Rav4 hybrid, apparently not. You can go to a dealer and put your name on a waiting list, and then in 3-6 months you might be able to take delivery of your car. Can you go to a dealership and buy an F-150? Well, according to the article below from May, Ford had 55 days worth of inventory sitting on dealer lots, even after the aluminum plant fire has slowed production. So most likely, you can go to a Ford dealer and drive off with a brand new F-150 today.
https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2026/05/26/ford-pickup-production-gm-ram/90164939007/
Exactly what I told that commenter. It’s like talking to a brick wall, but even less satisfying.
My wife went car shopping late 2025. Couldn’t even get a local test drive of a RAV4. Fortunately she liked the seats and overall ergonomics of the CRV. She was in a CX-5 (handed down to one of our kiddos) – we wanted to go hybrid and didn’t quite trust the Mazda at their stage of development at that time.
I’m not surprised. I fell foul of this, to some degree, when I was shopping for a car last year. I was strongly interested in a Prius Prime, one of the last of the previous generation since, having tried one of the new sleek ones, I found it to be just a tad too cramped.
The Prius I wanted to look at arrived on the lot on Friday, I found it online on Saturday, and it was gone on Monday.
So I bought a RAV that had arrived that morning. Yes, a hybrid – Prime, to be precise, and I’m going to tell you right now: EV miles are the best.
Also: oof, it’s got to be tough being a salesman in the Stellantis constellation right now.
If you are in the market for a 2 door electric muscle car there are new 2024 Dodge Charger Daytonas near me still on the lot in the year of our Lord 2026. They are marked down from $70k to about $40k and they aren’t moving.
Is it bad that even at $40K, I still wouldn’t pull the trigger? I just don’t trust Dodge to make a car that will last longer than the loan
That’s the issue with buying a Charger Daytona. Even if you buy it at $40K, it’s still not enough of a discount to mitigate depreciation. It’s such a risk that if you buy it and hate it, you’ll get offered $28K on trade and still take a haircut.
And you really might end up hating it, too. Stellantis is having such trouble with its new models in general and its EVs in particular that your new baby could spend weeks in the service department while they try and figure out what the heck’s wrong with it. To me, it’s not worth the hassle for a confused car whose ethos isn’t even that of an EV.
Yes! Well put! I think I enjoy the idea of a land yacht style personal luxury coupe with the benefits of an EV and the Charger doesn’t really do either particularly well
They certainly are big, though. At 206.6 inches long, they’re about as big as a Rolls-Royce Wraith…or my grandma’s old 1997 Buick Riviera Supercharged.
Yep, they got the size right but the interior is waaay too “racecar” and not enough El Dorado or Chrysler Imperial. If they make a Chrysler version, there’s so much potential there
Chrysler Cordoba with rich corinthian leather.
And get someone called Ricardo to advertise it.
I see it.
Stellantis realizing the potential of this and properly executing it would truly be Fantasy Island
Oh, I’d probably be all-in if it was a personal luxury coupe and not a very large, overstuffed car masquerading as a modern muscle car.
For the life of me I can’t understand why anybody would buy anything from the Stellantis North America brand over anything else by almost any other brand. The vehicles are garbage.
As it is, the only recent I’ve ever been tempted to buy from Stellantis was a Ram 1500 Limited, and only because it drives like a large S-Class. With the air suspension, bedside lockers and I6, it’s a seriously nice rig.
Still didn’t do it, but…I was tempted.
There is a thread on Lease Hackr with the people who snagged $100/month Dodge Charger EVs, and now they post about how often it is in the shop and the CDJR service departments wish it would go away.
Oh geez! That’s terrible but not surprising. I think I would have taken the shot for $100 a month but not after hearing about the service issues
“…they aren’t moving” kind of sums up my experience with a lot of Dodge products, frankly.
This has been the case near me since Covid times. Any RAV4 on the lot was already pre-sold.
Toyota knows it, and they’ve now got three plants running 24/7 making them.
But I’ll take the Subaru because the Toyota doesn’t have enough headroom for me.
I would NOT want every comparable car on the market to be a Rav4 hybrid clone of course, but it’s an undeniably decent car if excitement isn’t among your purchase criteria. My neighbor got one last year (about $48K all-in I think) and she’s not a car person, so of course she loves it. It’s fine: comfortable, economical, roomy enough, etc…
What I don’t quite get is how some major manufacturers (looking at you Stellantis) continually try to compete by offering their take on the segment (sportier, and with an Italian accent like ‘it’sa me, Mario!’ in the case of Stellantis) and wind up with almost-half-year inventory backlogs. Or Ford, with the Escape… a perfectly adequate little crossover, but with competition as capable as the Rav4, CR-V, and Forester, adequate isn’t nearly enough anymore if the goal is to capture any meaningful market share.
Nobody asked of course, but for whatever reason (just to be difficult, maybe?) I’d love to see US buyers get to choose smaller/cheaper/more efficient little crossovers though of course Americans generally shun small cars. But the Yaris Cross/Lexus LBX are pretty appealing for what you pay if you don’t need a ton of space inside or routinely drive cross country all the time. And don’t get me started on the small crossover EV SUVs from Renault (Grande Panda, in all forms), Citroen, etc… Generally 150-220 miles of range in base form, more room inside than expected due to EV packaging efficiencies, and price tags that start/convert to roughly US$30K. The small EV hatchback cars on which so many of these little EV cute-utes are based generally start at a few grand less (such as the Twingo/Micra).
I know: Americans supposedly shun small cars, even if they’re cosplaying as rugged off-road SUVs, let alone actual little hatches. At this very moment, a gallon of regular unleaded costs $5.58 in California, the nation’s post populous state/biggest economy/largest car market. Which means of course, that if you live in a CA city like I do, the prices is edging closer to $7.00 per gallon in many places.
How high does it have to go before American buyers at least get the option to chose from cute little hybrid CUVs and hatches that get 60-70 MPG, and baby EV crossovers that MSRP for under $30K?
I’m waiting.
It won’t work. The difference in fuel economy between a Yaris Cross and a Tahoe is massive. But between Yaris Cross and a RAV4 is not so big.
There are two more things that make smaller cars popular in Europe, size of the roads and taxation.
If we didn’t have those, we wouldn’t all be driving Tahoes and Expeditions magically, but probably our cars would be bigger.
The problem is using MPG, which is a ratio. Ratios can be misleading.
A 30 MPG vehicle uses 3.3 gal. to go 100miles
A 40 MPG vehicle uses 2.5 gal. to go 100 miles
A 50 MPG vehicle uses 2.0 gal. to go 100 miles
A 60 MPG vehicle uses 1.7 gal. to go 100 miles.
As the MPG numbers get bigger, the actual savings get smaller!
I did a little search in Spritmonitor, cars from 2024 to 2026.
– Yaris Cross Hybrid: average 4,75L/100KM (49.5mpg)
– RAV4 Hybrid: average 6,1L/100KM (38.6mpg)
Fuel economy is not going to be the decider.
Stickler warning, but any Unit per Unit is a Ratio.
Miles per gallon is the inverse of gallons per mile. Gallons or Liters per 100 miles/km is the same thing.
Tipping point for a US driver is 30mpg, 400mi range, in my experience. That’s good enough mileage that they’re unwilling to downsize/lose capability to further improve it, and 400mi allows most drivers to fill the tank once a week on average.
Yes, I know there are a variety of reasons that Americans no longer seem to want smaller/cheaper/more efficient cars, and why manufacturers don’t offer them here.
Despite this knowledge, the fact remains that smaller cars (mostly, but not exclusively imports) made and sold in the US from the ’80s through the ’00s had easier up-front costs and much lower lifetime running costs. Back then, a 16″ wheel/tire combo was common and even in today’s hyper-inflated world, tires that size aren’t eye-wateringly expensive. Nowadays, plenty of ‘entry level’ cars sport 18″ wheels and larger. Having recently bought a good set of 18″ers for my old Volvo, it’s an over $1,000. expense (about $1,200. in my case for Michelins). And the super-thin oils now specced for new cars give me pause: 0 weight oil vs the 20 weight specced in the same exact car/engine in Europe? How is the American model going to last as long as the Euro one like that?
No need to go into CAFE regulations, chicken taxes, oil company subsudies (military expenditures and otherwise), etc… we’ve been over all of that many times. Lots of reasons things are now the way they are here.
All that said, the only new cars that actually pique my interest enough for me to actually rationalize buying them are the smaller/cheaper/more interesting ones that aren’t sold in America. Grande Panda, Super-One, EV3, Micra/Twingo, YarisCross, etc… a whole bunch of appealing small cars without any real equivalents we can buy here. It just makes me a bit sad, that’s all.
Couple of ways of looking at it, I suppose. It’s hard to argue that Toyota hasn’t skillfully positioned itself in the absolute dead geographic center of what customers want out of this segment and since it’s a huge sales segment, demand is high.
I’m not sure I’d wait for a regular RAV4, though. If a CR-V is there on the lot and for thousands less I’d just go for that. H/K hybrids are looking decent too. Price matters, if you spend too much up front the Toyota resale doesn’t help you anymore.
I’d need a lot of financial incentive to go for the Subaru, though. It’s well behind on fuel economy and power vs the RAV4. The only reason the Forester hybrid seems impressive is because the non-hybrid isn’t.
Now, the plug-in RAV? That might be worth sitting on a waitlist for. I can go from using no gas on my shorter commute and errand route to blowing GTIs into the weeds at a stoplight and then getting like 35mpg once I’ve settled down in hybrid mode. Who would ever use the 5-second 0-60 run in their RAV4, you ask? Me. Frequently. Because I’ve kinda grown up but kinda not.
FWIW the Subaru has real, mechanical all wheel drive and IIRC it’s the only Japanese hybrid in this class that does. Some would say that’s a fair tradeoff for the less impressive fuel economy. I think the Kia/Hyundai do too but that’s a really complex system with a turbo 4 cylinder and traditional automatic and the general consensus is it’s way, way less refined than the competition/will definitely be less reliable.
I think the CR-V has an actual rear diff and driveshaft as well?
Yes – our 2025 CRV has a driveshaft and rear diff. I believe it’s a Haledex system (like most of them), always on but still very efficient. The early US market CRVs had a hydraulic rear AWD system.
I saw a friend this weekend who had just bought a CRV, he took a test drive of a RAV4 first and didn’t like how it handled.
The key word here is “test drive.” Everybody should take a good long test drive before they choose, even if they have to do it in a rented car. Drive it in both day and night!
It does, but like most other Haldex vehicles the rear axle doesn’t get power until the car’s electronics demand it. Brake torque-vectoring takes the place of limited-slip diffs.
Subaru’s system is always sending power to the back. That’s why it gets a mileage penalty that is more pronounced in city driving.
K/H is really throwing the kitchen sink into their hybrids. Much more parts and tech to go wrong. I’d love to see a deep dive comparing the number of powertrain parts and components in the powertrains of an H/K and a Toyota.
There’s probably not going to *be* a regular (non-hybrid) RAV4.
I meant regular hybrid vs. plug-in
Toyota has essentially mastered what used to be called “the bread and butter vehicle”
The vehicle that the average person bought that was a good all-around vehicle and thus, sold in large volumes and essentially paid the bills.
I sell Subarus, we’re basically order only on Forester Hybrids right now. I have 3 on the lot (lowest Premium trims) and only a Sport Hybrid and Touring Hybrid coming in that isn’t spoken for yet. I expect the Touring to be sold before it arrives.
That being said, the fact that the Rav4 is doing even faster numbers is insanity
Interesting! How much for a low Forester Hybrid team these days?
MSRP is $37,069, the non-hybrid equivalent is $35,486. In average driving, breakeven on gas savings alone is 4.5 years.
However, it’s easier to get bigger discounts on the non-hybrids so ymmv
“MSRP is $37,069, the non-hybrid equivalent is $35,486. In average driving, breakeven on gas savings alone is 4.5 years.”
With recent higher fuel costs, the breakeven is likely shorter than 4.5 years. Also if you have someone who drives more than average, they will have a faster payback as well.
For the amount of driving I do and for what fuel has cost in my area, the breakeven would be more like 3 years.
Agreed. I meet so many people who do 15-20k miles a year. The average “10k miles” comes from people who do 2-3k miles a year like my mom who has a 7 year old car with 8k miles on it.
Much as with the prior RAV4, the gas-only Forester is downright miserable to drive. Thrashy, loud and unrefined. The hybrid powertrain is such a premium experience, compared to that, I wouldn’t even consider the gas-only version if I were shopping one…not even considering the major fuel economy and likely longevity benefits.
It’s amazing how much better the hybrid is to drive vs the non-hybrid. It’s only 14 more hp but it really feels like 40
Torque is real.
Yep. I like powertrains that have effortless low-end torque and that are quiet on the highway. If I want something that I have to listen to as I rev the piss out of it to make any power, I’ll buy an S2000 or an E9x M3. I do not want that experience in a daily-driver, especially not a compact-ish transverse-FWD-based SUV. Give me a smooth-driving hybrid any day.
Modern turbo engines have brought that. The dieselisation of petro engines.
THIS, so much. A small, high-rev 4-cyl ICE is the worst possible option outside of fun little sporty cars.
Peak HP/TQ numbers are always deceptive. Area under the curve is what really matters.
100% but I try to leave that calculus out of my explanation to customers lol
Draw the curve perhaps? People usually intuitively understand calculus until you mention the word calculus.
I do for the ones that show interest. It isn’t as often as I’d like to though lol
This isn’t a new phenomenon by any means. When we bought our RAV4 hybrid two years ago our small town Toyota dealer had exactly two on the lot, one of which was their demo vehicle. They said they could track down one to our exact specs so I gave them a small deposit. They called a couple of days later and said they found the right car 1,800 miles away in the mid-west. It showed up a week later equipped exactly as requested with no add-ons or extra dealer charges.
I know “more macho” is a thing these days, but it’s a pity Toyota beat the new generation RAV4 with an ugly stick.
i think the new rav4 is very good looking.
Compared to the StarWars storm trooper styling of the pervious one, the 2026 is downright restrained and neutral. It just looks like tech.
However, if you’re the sort of person to buy a car based on purely physical attributes, the Forester Hybrid feels like a better crossover. It has a bit more passenger space, a bit more comfort, and a bit more soft-road capability.
It also gets 35 MPG vs 41 for the RAV4 which ain’t nothing. That might be a tire issue though.
The Forester takes about a second-and-a-half longer to 60 and 5mph slower in the quarter as well, which is a full performance tier down. If one absolutely must have a Subaru it’s probably a nice upgrade over the gas-only, but it doesn’t compare as well outside the Subaru constellation.
i bought a 2025 rav4 at the end of 2024. it was hard to find a base model, and when I did, the best deal i could get was at longo toyota, and that best deal was just msrp. however, i told the sales guy i was coming in the afternoon. He had the car ready. I signed a couple of things and gave him a check, and was on my way probably 25 minutes later.
Our local dealer keeps 2 RAV4s in stock. One on the showroom floor, the other a test driver. The window stickers are nearly 10K above the MSRP.
Their website has about 40 RAVS listed as “on the way.”
So does the Subie share the same engine that the RAV has?
I wonder what the Subie dealer mark up runs?
I assume they share the hybrid technology. The Subaru has a boxer four and the Toyota has an inline. Both 2.5L.
Thanks.
This is exactly what my local Toyota dealer does as well. No haggling on price – they have a line of folks waiting for one to arrive. It’s wild.
Subaru corporate highly discourages dealerships from doing ADM, often by reducing our allocations. We definitely don’t have as strong of discounts on our hybrids as our non-hybrids
Nice they keep one to test drive. I think I’ve thrown in the towel on a Grand Highlander because I can’t even get a test drive on a hybrid model.
“So does the Subie share the same engine that the RAV has?”
No. Subaru uses some Toyota hybrid tech, but it’s mated to a variant of their flat 4 engine.
I sat in a new RAV4 hybrid this weekend and I absolutely hate the dashboard. All screens, no style, and the most prominent buttons on the dash were for drive mode BS that most drivers will use maybe 3X. I was pretty damn disappointed, and more importantly so was my wife who would actually buy one of these.
Sigh.
I sat in a brand new Camry hybrid this weekend and I’m sad to say I didn’t like it either. It felt way too cramped for a mid/large sized car and WTF is with up the appalling lack of headroom? The steeply raked windshield looks cool from the outside but damn if it doesn’t add to the sense of tiny on the inside. But at least it had physical controls for the HVAC.
I’m starting to see the appeal of SUVs :/
Lack of headroom was an issue for me in the older RAV4s but seemed to be better in the new one, FWIW.
That’s the deal-breaker for me on most cars and even some SUVs. The irony is that I stand less than 5’6″, but with a long back bone, I sit eye-to-eye with basketball players. Nobody designs a car for bodies like that. I’ve been really comfy in my Ford C-Max, my Mercedes GLK, and my old New Beetle.
IIRC that was the stereotypical Italian car seat; short legs, long arms.
Maybe try a Fiat or an Alfa Romeo?
Yeah I’m all torso too.
The Camry has been shrinking in interior space over the last couple generations. Passenger volume of the new one is closer to the Camrys of the ’90s (still classified as an EPA midsize).
This has been true of other Toyota models as well. My theory is it’s a packaging thing related to the hybrid componentry. Ex: Toyota hybrids typically keep a spare tire which is not the case with many hybrid competitors – all the Honda hybrids lose their spare tires – so they’ve packaged and built around the tech differently.
I really like the look of the Camry but I think in part that’s the problem. It kind of reminds me of the Ferrari 308. Beautiful car to look at but driving it you notice the cramped footwell and the limited headroom. As a kid I wouldn’t have cared about those things because RACECAR! As a kid I’d have lusted after the Camry just on the styling alone. Now though styling, while nice, isn’t as critical as comfort, overall safety and low total cost of ownership.
Toyota does this on purpose. Artificial scarcity is capitalism 101 shit. Limit supply, increase demand, profit. Toyota sells every car they make, their dealerships make money hand over fist because of ADMs, everyone is happy except the consumer. Toyota could absolutely build these damn things faster but why would they do that?
On the other hand, it takes two to tango people willingly put up with this…not to mention I’m sure a massive percentage of the folks tripping over themselves for the latest and greatest *checks notes* RAV4 are sitting in prior gen ones or other cars that are in perfectly fine shape. Even though the tactics are unethical as fuck, no one is forcing anyone into a $60,000 crossover. As Matt suggests, a Honda or Subaru dealership will happily sell you their hybrid midsized crossovers with 4 figure discounts.
I put a lot of this squarely on the shoulders of corporate greed…but we need to be smarter consumers as well. I tried to buy a GR Corolla in 2022, dealt with multiple dealerships telling me assorted nonsense, and eventually got my Kona N instead. Is it as good of a car? That’s up for debate (most would say no because Korean car BAD and Toyota GOOD) but I got such a good deal on it it’s already paid off.
Speak with your wallet when you can, folks.
Your second paragraph, spot on.
I buy my cars in the way commented towards the end.
As do I, which is why I am out of the new car game completely. The game is rigged, and the game pieces are uniformly garbage at this point.
I could have gotten a base Mazda 3 with a 140bhp 2.5 litre and manual for 25k €. I think that’s not bad…
(I ended up with a hybrid Clio because the overall economic deal was better, even though the actual car was slightly more expensive than the Mazda)
You still have interesting choices in Europe. We are not so fortunate on this side of the pond.
Well not for another 25 years or so.
I’ve owned somewhat orphaned cars, not really that interested in doing so for other than a pure toy. And even then, I’d still rather have all sorts of things from 15-30 years ago than anything being sold new today. But at least if I wanted a NEW car today, there are several I would happily buy on that side of the pond.
https://cc.skoda-auto.com/gbr/en-GB/trimline-scenic?activePage=trimlines&color=K4K4&configurationId=&extraEquipments=&id=GBR%3Bskoda%3B2026%3BNZ5DDD%3B2%3BGYOZYOZ%3Bmda20260605083656%3Ben-GB%3B%3B64501%3B64501&interior=HS&mbvcode=NZ5DDD&modelcode=NZ&modifiedPages=&pagegroup=Website&replace=true&salesprogram=GBR&snapshotVersion=0d755db6-aa9e-44d2-b0be-c04c4f8b721a&trimline=NZD%7CSE%20Technology6450164501&visitedPages=
I dunno if that long-azz link will work, but the Skoda Superb wagon is, er, superb. Even if autotragic only. And you can still get a regular Golf with a stick over there. But neither is a car I would particularly want to own at age 25.
The first TDi I ever drove was a rented MT 2002 Skoda Octavia. It was a very nice car.
For a long time after that I wanted a TDi. My ideal was a ’97-98 5MT Passat wagon with the tank filler delete for a capacity of 25 gallons and over a thousand miles of range on homemade biodiesel (may as well put my chemistry degree to some use, amiright?) but TDi prices, even used prices were batshit insane till 2015 or so.
Oh well.
My first new car was an ’02 Golf GLS TDI. With the “overful” trick you could get an extra couple gallons in the tank. That thing would go forever on a tank. Loved it, had to sell it when I lost my job. I too lusted after a Passat TDI wagon.
I see them come up once in a while. The good news is they’re no longer batshit insane expensive. The bad news is they usually have well north of 300k miles and look like they’ve gone a million.
The remaining handful of nice ones ARE batshit expensive. I loved that Golf, but I just don’t drive enough to have any use for 50mpg anymore. Back then I did.
I have no interest in any diesel new enough to need DEF or have a catalyst.
I had the exact same experience in 2022 trying to buy the newly released CIvic Si. They wouldn’t let me test drive it and included a ‘market adjustment’ in the price. I went across the street and ordered a Crosstrek instead.
Weird cross-shopping I know.
Appreciate the admission of how weird a cross shop that is.
trek-crossed the street? Trek(ked a)cross? There has to be some sort of play on words there. Either way, good on your for speaking with your wallet.
So you did a “Trek” a”Cross” the street?
I’ll see myself out…
This is purely on the consumers. Why should Toyota build more to sell them for less per unit if they’re already running their factories at their most profitable capacity and selling in full? This makes forecasting simpler, looks better on quarterly profit charts (especially in light of losses due to US tariff nonsense), eliminates incentives, makes for happier dealers that might treat customers better, and helps keep up the resale value that’s a major driver of the crazy demand on these new vehicles, making Toyota far too rare in realizing the value of the 2nd+ owner’s experience. If sad people think they’re impressing their peers with these as some kind of weird status symbol because they had to wait and pay more to get their more in-demand eunuchmobile with no choice of options or colors instead of picking up one of the other very similar eunuchmobiles from someone else that they could pick up for less the same day, that’s entirely on them. It’s not even like they’re rare and anyone who wants one will likely get one, they just have to wait a little. As much as I hate modern Ferrari, their similar practice in the interest of retaining a sense of exclusivity is a smart long-term move.
Thank you for the Life of Brian-esqe “You’ve got to think for yourselves” spiel.
For the masses, it will likely go as well for you as it did for Brian, but everyone needs their messiah, I suppose.
For most, Toyota is their messiah.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xSpYSxcvFk
I mean, it seems like a non-issue to me. The people that wish to hurry out to pay MSRP-plus for a car that they don’t even get to order and have to wait for (possibly even settling for a color or trim that they didn’t want)…do so. The people who’d rather not…don’t. Toyota seems to have found a large customer base of people who are in the former camp, and I can’t fault them for that.
People are voting with their wallets. They’ve decided that they like Toyota and/or the RAV4 enough to endure that experience…just like with any other hot-commodity product.
“Toyota does this on purpose. Artificial scarcity is capitalism 101 shit. Limit supply, increase demand, profit. Toyota sells every car they make, their dealerships make money hand over fist because of ADMs, everyone is happy except the consumer. Toyota could absolutely build these damn things faster but why would they do that?”
Ask Ferrari. They know.
Toyota: we now measure inventory turnover in selling hours.
Stellantis: we now measure inventory turnover in selling years!
I pulled up listings for the Charger Sixpack yesterday and some of them are already listed for $10,000 off MSRP. Stellantis gonna Stellantis…
By Grabthar’s Hammer…what a savings.
RAV4 Prime has been kind of a darling and also hard to find since it came out in 2019. 42 miles of Plug in hybrid range, AWD and 300 HP on tap, and it does not sound like a jar of marbles like the base 4 cylinder CVT in the regular Rav4 these days.
I don’t know if it’s the same CVT as the Corolla, but I just had one as a rental and the hesitation around the 1700rpm band while accelerating was ANNOYING. Plus, there was a shocking number of interior rattles. Really made me question Toyota’s reputation.
The E-CVTs in hybrid Toyotas and Fords are completely different, using metal gears and motor-generators. They’re robust and long-lasting, and they’re usually responsive, too. But they do sound like CVTs on heavy acceleration. The trick is to have enough combined ICE and EV power on tap that you don’t hear that noise more than a few seconds.
The Subaru has the same drivetrain too? Are now all japanese crossovers variations of the RAV4?
In the same way that all Italian were (at one point) variations of the Fiat Panda.
The Subaru uses the electrical portion from Toyota, but retains the Subaru flat four ICE engine.
Well crap….
The Subaru also has a mechanical AWD system, where the RAV4 uses a separate motor in the rear and has no mechanical connection to the front.
It makes the AWD more capable, but less efficient and more complex.
Well, Subaru engine still and the planetary power-split CVT is rejiggered to fit going longitudinally so probably as close as a Ford hybrid is.
But also man, no spare in both CR-V and Forester is a bummer especially with the soft-road aspirations of the latter.
So much this. The lack of a spare tire in the Prius PHEV gives me more stress than it should. At least with the regular Prius you can visit the parts department or third party and stick a spare tire under the cargo floor. On the plus side, I haven’t bought gas in three months and I drive ~300 miles a week.
I’ve been thinking about so many hypotheticals lately.
F-150 Lightning has a full-size spare but it’s a big boy. I saw the Kona Electric now has standard V2L and space for a spare plus mounting hardware out back so that very well could be something to tempt me despite my general H/K disdain.
I was thinking about whether I could live with a hitch mount spare on Toyota/Subaru’s EV lineup or fabricate an interior mount like the ol’ XJ but might have to relocate rear camera if I was serious about living with it outside full-time.
At least RAV4 Prime/Plug-in (pretty sure it’s the same for this generation) and Sorento PHEV’s come with a spare.
My C-Max didn’t come with a spare either. I solved that by simply buying a compact spare along with a jack.
They’re roomy enough to carry a compact spare along, just in case.
Why not a CX-50? Isn’t that optionable with the same drivetrain?
It’s optionable with the last generation of this powertrain and comes with some packaging compromises to make it work
I think reviews complain about an overly harsh ride, but I could be mistaken.
On a long enough timeline, every vehicle (that people want) becomes a Rav4, apparently.
I love how Stellantis is like “V8s in everything! It’s what the people want!” with 148 days of inventory, and Toyota goes “Get a hybrid or get fucked” and consumers are stabbing each other to get an allotment.
It seems like a certainty that the Stellantis vehicles rotting on lots are not V8 powered.
Dodge has turned itself from a broadly popular and successful car company into a niche manufacturer. And it sounds right that the 6es and 4s are the ones on the lot, because they don’t fit the niche.
Dodge needs another shot of Vitamin K.
https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/slow_clap_citizen_kane.gif
It’s the EVs more than anything I think.
So one person figures it’s the 4s and 6s on the lots, another suggests it’s the EVs, and another thinks it’s the 8s. Now I wonder.
Yep.
Ram has 144 days of inventory and I’d wager the bulk of those vehicles have V8s in them.
Actually, the majority of Ram vehicles, both 1500s and HDs, are powered by 6 cylinders.
Come hang out where gas prices suck more and tell me how the V8s are selling (not well).
I was just there a month ago!
(Not many Dodge dealers for research between Sault Ste Marie and Blind River though).
I guess that would be understandable in Europe, but in the US?
Ask the US consumers who are literally buying RAV4s as they hit the lot.
When the only thing you’ve got going for you is that you put V8s in things, you’d better put V8s in things.
Trying to cling desperately to a dying market is not a sound business strategy in any line of work.
As Keynes once said “In the long run, we’re all dead”.
The thing Stellantis has in its favour is a broad range of (admittedly failing) brands. They can absolutely get away with Dodge burning itself out in noise and fury if they have Chrysler waiting in the wings with a not-awful EV proposition.
Given their lofty sales goals this year, they better invent a time machine and get selling that new platform 4 months ago.
New platform? I expect someone’s gone to the archives to find the blueprints for the chassis of a 1972 Dodge Monaco.
Don’t you DARE tempt me with Dodge’s Fuselage Era.
Modern consumerism is so morbidly fascinating.
In a world of competitive offerings from all automakers, the herd simply accepts The Gospel of RAV4 and feels it acceptable to overpay and wait for the privilege of owning one.
This isn’t some bespoke Ferrari, which prides itself on making the obscenely wealthy compete for its affection (which is its own kind of grotesque appalling thing about humanity), it’s an appliance-level good.
The banality of the upper-middle class knows no bounds. Toyotas are fine, in a greige sort of way, but I don’t see the ‘privilege’ of getting down on my knees for one when I can just wander over to another dealer and get something comparable.
Non car people want to buy an appliance that runs cheap, with minimal mental commitment, for at least the next decade.
Toyota is historically VERY good at that. Topping 40mpg is just the icing on the cake.
If I had to wait 3 months for the Bosch 300 series dishwasher I bought, I would have.
Why?
Cause EVERYONE told me “Buy a 300 series and move on with your life”. I did, and it performs as advertised. 10/10 would buy again and recommend to others.
A lot of people apply this logic to family transportation.
These are fine choices, but I’m not sure why anyone would buy one when the Tiguan exists. Who wants the added weight, complexity and worry of corroded high-voltage cables (a $5,700 repair) that comes with a hybrid Toyota?
Pretty much anyone who doesn’t want to deal with a VW – and then some, it seems.
Better mechanical longevity, a lower frequency of repairs, and cheaper annual maintenance come to mind.
Mine’s about a thousand miles away from 100k miles. Oil changes and standard maintenance is all it’s ever needed.
I have niece with a Tiguan (as does her husband) and theirs have both had multi-day stays at the repair shop for unscheduled repair needs.
So far that high voltage cable has been routinely checked and has had no issues. If/when it does, we’ll probably about pull even with their Tiguans on repair expenses.
A Tiguan is exponentially less efficient, exponentially less reliable, and has exponentially worse residuals….
Edit: and also doesn’t have goddamn buttons for the climate control….
“…why anyone would buy one when the Tiguan exists”
Almost sprayed the screen with coffee when I read that. But it’s noon so I’m not drinking coffee.
Did I Rip VanWinkle myself into a future timeline where the Tiguan was market competitive with the RAV4?
Yeah, that was good for a good laugh!
Because those are generally non-issues.
Weight is negligible, the overall system is actually simpler especially in the transmission and engine accessory department, the connector corrosion issue was specific to certain RAV4 years and not a systemic issue in Toyota three decades of offering a hybrid.
Because a lot of people have friends who have owned Tiguans, and people talk.
My sister and her husband owned a Tiguan! They traded it in for a Toyota after less than two years because the sunroof kept leaking and the VW dealership lied about completing a recall for the busted sunroof and tried to charge them $5,000 for repairs. They shoved a car through their certification without…you know, certifying it.
Eventually once the threat of legal action came along suddenly they were very apologetic about lying about selling the car with a faulty sunroof. But since it spent roughly half its life at the dealership, as VW products tend to.
(I’m quite fond of our pal angrycatmeowmeow, I just couldn’t resist the urge to troll)
My friend’s has had the entire power steering assembly replaced, the turbo, and some other large expense I can’t recall. He hates that car.
That just sounds like German preventative maintenance to me
Buddy, I’m way ahead of you.
Well played!
The Tiguan choice was very nice, a Hornet would have been too obvious
Angrycat Meowmeow used Troll! it was extremely effective!
Poor Tiguan. No one on an enthusiast’s site likes the RAV4 but once the Tiguan is used to troll it, every comment putting down the VW gets a dozen or more upvotes.
That’s the hive mind at work.
I might be a little insane but if I was in the market for a normie crossover I’d buy the Tiguan Turbo.
I have a 14 Rav4 and two Audi’s, and so far the Audi’s have cost me less in unscheduled maintance than the Toyota. I know it sounds nuts but that’s been my experience with both brands, regardless of how unrepresentative it may be of the two brands as a whole.
That’s not the reason I’d buy the Tiggy, though. I just like it more and I’d be willing to sacrifice the fuel economy and resale value to drive a car I genuinely like instead of a dull car I tolerate.
“regardless of how unrepresentative it may be of the two brands as a whole”
So you’ve had an admittedly unrepresentative experience, but pejoratively label those who don’t want to take that chance as “the hive mind”?
This is still a Tiguan we’re talking about, yes? It’s a compact crossover, the entire segment was born from the hive mind.
That said, I get it about going with a brand that’s given you a good experience even if the stats argue against it. I had a VW I loved, it treated me well and it was a clear step up in driving experience, material quality, and form factor over the competition. For me personally, it was worth the risk for a torquey stick shift wagon with a near-Audi interior. A Tiguan doesn’t have the same draw for me; if I’m going appliance, I’m going for the one that’s faster yet uses way less fuel, and looks to be statistically less likely to have problems.
Neither of these brands are the same as they were 20-30 years ago when their reputations were earned. Just ask Cadillac how difficult it is to change perceptions, though.
I dunno, the response to your trolling came up with some very classic VW problems from numerous people in the blink of an eye.
If I were in the market for one of these things, I’d definitely keep an open mind and check the VW out. But if the RAV or CR-V hybrid were comfortable for me and anywhere similar in price, then the VW is facing a powertrain deficit it simply cannot overcome, and that has nothing to do with reputations from 20-30 years ago, it has to do with VW being asleep at the wheel while Toyota and Honda produced the right product for the market.
Sounds like you’d like a new Alfa Romeo as much as the Tiguan (I did thoroughly enjoy the joke- you actually got me since I thought it was real at first!). Seriously though, if it was me I’d go Alfa for even more fun. In reality, I’d never buy new anyway and would be on the hunt for an Alfa 164! (I saw an ad for one today, it was tempting)
I had an 18 Giulia lol. That was the most unreliable car I’ve ever had. Stunning to look at though.
And what a drive…
I still sometimes get intrusive thoughts about the Quadrifoglio.
I looked at it recent. Too expensive, but boy wouldn’t it be a dream?
I’m a VW fan, but my neighbor just traded her ’22 Tiguan SE in for a new Crosstrek, and I can’t say I fault her. She had oil-consumption issues.
So how many hours does a RAV4 stay on the lot on average then?
They seem to be saying that often there is a waitlist long enough that they are literally sold before the day is done.
Yes, a day is too long and so they’re count in hours. If they have a new metric then use it. Otherwise just say < 1 day if they’re not going to actually measure it.
Zero hours in my area.
Back in 2022, Toyota hybrids occupied four out of the eights spots on my next vehicle short list. I got in the habit of watching the new inventory from my local dealerships and continue to do so out of curiosity. The desirable hybrids are still purchased in the “build” or “in-transit” phase four years later. Most have hundreds of dollars of dealer added accessories added to pad the price.
My experience has been that most are sold before they even get to the dealer – esp. the plug-in.
Former Toyota dealer guy here. The time spent on the lot depends on how fast they can slap on the dealer add ons, and run the actual intake paperwork on each RAV, then slap an “adjusted” dealer sticker next to the actual TOYOTA sticker.
It seems most all are pre sold before they leave the factory.