Home » Why May Could End Up Being The Right Time To Buy A New Car

Why May Could End Up Being The Right Time To Buy A New Car

May Car Tmd
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While I’m still fairly bullish on the 2024 car market, the general sense I’m getting is that April might not be a blowout for dealerships. That might be a good thing for consumers come May — at least, I will make an argument and you can tell me if you agree.

The Morning Dump will also contain some arguments from conservative governors in the American South who are against the rise of unionization and seem concerned about a vote at Volkswagen’s plant in Tennessee this week.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

Ford is recalling Bronco Sports, again. In fact, there are two simultaneous Ford Bronco Sport recalls. One is slightly amusing and one is slightly terrifying.

And, finally, Elon Musk is asking for the pay bump he was denied by a judge. This is more of the typical Elon Musk behavior we’re used to and it’s a little off-putting, but Tesla is important and it’s important we aren’t blinded to that because its CEO is a dingus.

April May Not Be The Month Dealers Wanted

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It’s a truism, but one that generally holds, that if you’re getting a refund you tend to file your taxes a little early, which means you get your refund early, which means dealers are often happy to see you walk in the door in March and early April.

There’s evidence to suggest that the April Bump was a bit more subdued than in the past and that higher interest rates are keeping prices higher. Let’s start with interest rates. I covered a lot of it last week, and CarDealershipGuy does a good job of explaining what it means in the tweet above, with the conclusion below:

Historically high interest rates threaten average monthly payments. With rate cuts nowhere in sight and rising inflation, interest rates on car loans are likely to keep increasing.

That’s all pretty much in line with the general vibe and makes sense.

Here’s a super fun graphic from Cox Automotive’s weekly market report:

Tax refund season
Source: Cox Automotive

As you can see, most of the refunds have been given out and, while the average refund is a little higher, those have mostly worked their way through the system (week 14 was the first week of April), meaning the wave has crested.

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Combine that with this:

  • Leads are up y/y so far in April on Autotrader but down on Kelley Blue Book, and leadsare up for the month compared to March on Autotrader

  • Unique leads per dealer are down y/y in April for new and used vehicles, and new andused leads are down for the month compared to March on websites hosted byDealer.com

This is all to say that sales will probably be up year-over-year in April, but with consumer sentiment in decline, gas prices rising a bit, and a likely muted boost from tax refunds it’s likely a big chunk of consumers are sitting on the sidelines (I’m one of them).

Somewhat counterintuitively, this might be a reason why you (or I) should consider buying a car in May. New car supply, according to Cox, is 18 days higher year-over-year, and while it’s stabilized. that’s still a decent number of cars on the lot for this time of year.

If you can wait until the end of the month I think Memorial Day weekend could prove a great time to get a decent deal on a new car, depending on what that car is. The trick to scoring a good deal is to find an automaker (like Volkswagen, Nissan, or Mazda) that is willing to cut you a good financing deal.

Union Vote Is Existential For Southern Governors

Uaw Striking Workers
Photo: UAW

Right now and for the next couple of days, Volkswagen workers at the company’s Chattanooga plant will be deciding if they want to join the United Auto Workers union. This is the third time the UAW has attempted this in the last ten years and, given the union’s recent success, the one most likely to succeed.

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From Reuters:

Kelcey Smith, who joined a union organizing committee after being hired about a year ago, said the union’s deals following a six-week strike against the Detroit automakers inspired him. The UAW won record contracts, including double-digit pay increases and the return of cost-of-living adjustments.

Smith wants some of those perks himself.
“It showed not only me, but the rest of the country and the world, that if you just come together as a collective group, you can bring change for yourself and your families,” he said.
Not everyone agrees with this and, specifically, the conservative governors of the states that are being targeted think it’s a bad idea. The Associated Press has a good roundup of their collective thoughts:
The governors, all Republicans, said in a statement Tuesday that they have worked to bring good-paying jobs to their states.

“We are seeing in the fallout of the Detroit Three strike with those automakers rethinking investments and cutting jobs,” the statement said. “Putting businesses in our states in that position is the last thing we want to do.”

[…]
The governors said they want to continue to grow manufacturing in their states, but a successful union drive will “stop this growth in its tracks, to the detriment of American workers.”
Not to contradict any of these elected officials, but many of the investment changes and job cuts likely have as much to do with the electrification push as the union vote. It’ll take time to see how much the impact of the UAW contracts lands on price increases for consumers and how much lands on job cuts.
I don’t think the governors are entirely wrong, however. Automakers didn’t move plants primarily to states like Georgia or Alabama for access to ports or suppliers or proximity to Branson. The anti-union posture of the states (all of the states mentioned in the article are so-called right-to-work states), almost certainly played a role in the decision-making coupled with big incentives from governments.
While I don’t agree that this growth will be to “the detriment of American workers” it does raise some risk for workers south of the Mason-Dixon Line. Many of these states have gotten nicer and the standard of living has improved, thanks in part to the investment in tax incentives by these state governments that brought these companies. If it turns out that plants in these states can also be easily unionized then, well, maybe it’s better to just go back to the Rust Belt?
It’s too early to know what’ll happen, of course.

Bronco Sports Gets Bronco II Recalls

Bronco Hood Scoop

Here’s a fun one. Ford is having to recall 456,565 Bronco Sports and Ford Mavericks over a battery issue that might cause all sorts of bad things to happen.

From NHTSA:

An insufficient calibration strategy for detecting sudden battery degradations
during a drive cycle can lead to (a) a vehicle that is unable to restart after an
auto start/stop event or (b) experience a stall while coming to a stop at low
speed. Either may be accompanied by a loss of 12-volt accessories, including
hazard lights.

So not only might your Bronco Sport or Maverick crap out on you, but it might also kill the hazard lights! The good news is that there seems to be a relatively easy fix as only the calibration software in the BCM and the PCM need to get updated.

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Here’s a weirder one, via Ford Authority:

The defect: in affected vehicles, the hood scoop may detach from the hood.

The hazards: a hood scoop that detaches while driving can damage the windshield or become a road hazard, increasing the risk of a crash.

Ford will give you a refund for the hood scoop which, if I’m being honest, is kind of a trash accessory. You don’t need a hood scoop on a Bronco Sport. Sorry to offend!

The Elon Musk Of It All

221026151430 Elon Musk Entering Twitter Hq 1026 Screenshot
Screenshot: CNN

Tesla CEO Elon Musk probably doesn’t care what I think, which is good because I’m one of those people who loved the old Twitter and knows enough about Musk to not be amused by his antics.

For instance, a Delaware court ruled that Musk was granted the biggest paycheck in human history under unfair and uncompetitive circumstances. Musk’s response was to pick up his ball and go home (specifically, to legally establish his company in LLC). Tesla’s board still wants to give Musk this money, so the move and the pay will come up for a vote by shareholders.

All of this is kind of annoying and it’s hard not to be turned off by Musk (though some people seem to like his schtick).

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Journalist Noah Smith challenges that feeling, however, in a post about why China is beating Tesla and what it means for the rest of us:

Elon Musk’s detractors are prone to schadenfreude, viewing Tesla’s decline as karmic punishment for letting the antisemites and Russian propagandists back onto Twitter. But I think this reaction is shortsighted. To see a champion of U.S. industry and innovation go down to fast-following Chinese rivals shouldn’t make any American happy. And the same techniques that China is using to defeat Tesla will be used to defeat any other American competitor.

Ok, fair.

What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

Since my daughter worried about me listening to too much sad dad music, here’s something a little different. I’m a big Mitski fan and, while I wouldn’t call the music happy, there’s a kind of pleasant yearning to it.

The Big Question

Have you become a member yet and supported this fine institution? Just FYI, a Cloth Annual membership normally costs $70, which is $5.83 a month, but we’ve got a discount going, and if you click this link to sign up and use code: mustang2yearanniversary it’s just $56, or 20% off, which is only $4.67 a month. Also, if you really want to see David buy an Aztek, live in it, and write about it, you could also just spend $7 on a Cloth Monthly membership one time. If you love The Morning Dump please consider it, we are really close to our goal. [Ed Note: I want an Aztek, but do I want to live in it? I’m not sure. -DT]

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The Dude
The Dude
5 months ago

With all the memories of insane markups, I think I have an allergic reaction to the thought of buying another new vehicle…

Greensoul
Greensoul
5 months ago

Oh, about that Elon photo carrying a sink. Has he decided to pee in a sink like every other red blooded American guy does when someone’s on the toilet hogging the bathroom, instead of pissing on people directly? He’s so good about just pissing on people directly. Is he changing his ways????

Double Wide Harvey Park
Double Wide Harvey Park
5 months ago
Reply to  Greensoul

It was him making a joke. On the day he took over twitter, he showed up with the fixture to “let this sink in.”

If memory serves he also cut down on janitorial services in the twitter building.

Greensoul
Greensoul
5 months ago

Look on the bright side, the Bronco recalls have nothing to do with rolling over. Consumer reports can sleep soundly tonight

ClutchAbuse
ClutchAbuse
5 months ago

My local Jeep dealer has a ton of inventory on the lot. I’m guessing it has to do with the fact I didn’t see a single Wrangler under 60k.

Maybe they’ll cut you a deal?

88CieraXC
88CieraXC
5 months ago

Until they make a car that does everything as well as my 93 Roadmaster wagon, I’mma just stick with the wagon. Hell, there’s a challenge: new car that does everything, including ride quality, for less a month than it would coat just to feed and maintain a Roadie.

Younork
Younork
5 months ago
Reply to  88CieraXC

Hybrid Corolla starts at $23k and gets 50+ MPG; cutting your gas bill by 2/3 might almost make up for the fact it is an econo-box, and boring in every way.

Shop-Teacher
Shop-Teacher
5 months ago
Reply to  Younork

I miss my Roadmaster wagon. I can confirm, it would not.

Canopysaurus
Canopysaurus
5 months ago

Tesla is laying off 10% of its work force to cut costs and maximize profits. I know how they could save hundreds of millions just by firing one guy.

Southern Republican governors have given away the farm to land manufacturing companies in their states. Free land, power, water and no taxes for decades are the typical incentives. And then the companies bring in all of the management and high value personnel from other places, typically leaving only the line workers and laborers to be sourced locally. The pols are terrified of unions taking hold because they fear the companies will get up and leave for the next free lunch (hello VW In Pennsylvania) when labor costs and union hassles rise. And they will. But there’s literally nothing left to give away and the governors know it, so unions bad.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
5 months ago
Reply to  Canopysaurus

Pretty ignorant thinking firing the guy who funds everything from his pocket. Did you consider he won’t continue to pay for everything if he was fired? If you can fire an owner. Are you getting enough air up there?

Canopysaurus
Canopysaurus
5 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

He funds nothing for Tesla, not since it became a publicly traded company. Some of his other companies are still private and those he does provide capital. Plenty of owners have been fired from leadership positions. He’d still be a major stockholder, just not the MIFWIC, so no salary.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
5 months ago
Reply to  Canopysaurus

So he funded everything when it was a pipe dream. Didn’t get anything but stock. Directed the company until it became more profitable than it should have been. And despite him being paid only stock and not being able to sell the stock and making the company more valuable on the stock market 100x more profitable than it should have been he didn’t deserve anything? Frankly Tesla stock is garbage without Elon and everyone should sell.

Scotticus
Scotticus
5 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

lololol, yeah, he funded it completely himself. No subsidies or anything!

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
5 months ago
Reply to  Scotticus

Well needing billions probably had help. Name anyone who invested as much

Canopysaurus
Canopysaurus
5 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

He was not there at the beginning. Tesla already existed and was producing cars, though not on the scale he envisioned. He bought a ton of stock to become the majority stockholder and appointed himself CEO, among other titles. His business acumen certainly enhanced the brand and taking the company public made everyone there far richer and financed its development into the leading EV company in the world. He can, in fact, sell his stock and has, most notably when he sold off $44 billion worth to buy Twitter. As a result, he actually surrendered majority shareholder position, though he’s still a major shareholder. In any event, Tesla’s Board likely will figure out a way pay him what he wants. It’s not a universally popular sentiment among Tesla stockholders for lots of reasons, but it’ll carry because the majority shareholders collectively favor it. Will his vision continue to best serve Tesla? There are many in the industry who say not. Other than using the company as a piggy bank, they think he’s bored with Tesla and is in danger of becoming the Bill Belichick of auto CEOs. If this is accurate, the company MIGHT be best served by new leadership and especially so given his most recent compensation demands. Opinions vary. In any case, enjoyed the back and forth.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
5 months ago
Reply to  Canopysaurus

Yes it was crap non existent its stock would be $10.

Drive By Commenter
Drive By Commenter
5 months ago

Definitely on the fence about buying a car this spring. Even considering a, gasp, Tesla. Not going to lie, the MY is a darn nicely engineered vehicle. But paying $47k out the door for one is anathema. Not when the build quality is no better than my 12 year old Chevy. Every man has their price and mine is $40k. If they get there. They’ve got the margin.

Spikersaurusrex
Spikersaurusrex
5 months ago

I hate to encourage anyone to buy a Tesla (I just think they’re ugly, not bad cars), but does that $47K include the potential tax credits? If not, that might get you down to your target.

Drive By Commenter
Drive By Commenter
5 months ago

Yes, that does. I live in a state with 8% sales tax on vehicles so that puts a pinch on.

LionZoo
LionZoo
5 months ago

Your section about Elon conflates Elon’s pay package with the fate of Tesla. As much as it is surprising, Tesla isn’t just Elon. In fact, if you’re cheering for Tesla’s success, you should logically recognize that (1) that pay package is absurd and (2) Elon has become a negative on Tesla’s success. The best thing that could happen to Tesla would be if they jettisoned Elon, but the ownership structure makes that almost impossible.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
5 months ago

Hey Matt due to financial issues I let my membership lapse. I tried to at least support at this cloth membership but the system tried to automatically renew old plan and on an old card.

Mark E. Post
Mark E. Post
5 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

An email might be more effective. Just saying 🙂

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
5 months ago
Reply to  Mark E. Post

Oh I agree. Have you found the contact us page where emails are listed? I haven’t.

Mark E. Post
Mark E. Post
5 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

I assume it’s just Matt@TheAutopian.com . If nothing else you can send something to tips@TheAutopian.com.

Mark E. Post
Mark E. Post
5 months ago
Reply to  Mark E. Post

This is directly from the About Us page, for future reference…

Editor-in-Chief, Co-Founder David Tracy | david@TheAutopian.com
Creative Director, Co-Founder Jason Torchinsky | jason@TheAutopian.com
Publisher Matt Hardigree | matt@TheAutopian.com
Staff Writer Mercedes Streeter | mercedes@TheAutopian.com
Daily Contributor Thomas Hundal | thomas@TheAutopian.com

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
5 months ago
Reply to  Mark E. Post

They don’t have a set format. Tips doesn’t get answered. And I have waited awhile before email DT and JT whose emails I have because they are busy. Just happened today. I don’t go all out on day 1. I do appreciate you attempt to help. It shows how good this site is.

Mark E. Post
Mark E. Post
5 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

I’ve made this help a mess by replying to myself, hahaha

My secondary post got moderated for too many links, even though they are just email addys for the staff, lol.
Anyway, scroll down to the very bottom of this page and click on the About Us link. Bing, Bang,Boom.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
5 months ago
Reply to  Mark E. Post

Thanks buddy if it works. Otherwise you will suffer my wrath. Which is pretty much nothing. But I’m building a brand.

Mark E. Post
Mark E. Post
5 months ago
Reply to  Mark E. Post

My secondary post got moderated for too many links, even though they are just email addys for the staff, lol.

Anyway, scroll down to the very bottom of this page and click on the About Us link. Bing, Bang,Boom.

Mercedes Streeter
Mercedes Streeter
5 months ago
Reply to  Mark E. Post

Fixed! Yeah, the spam filter gets weird.

Spikersaurusrex
Spikersaurusrex
5 months ago

In days long past, I was a member of the Teamsters Union, and without getting into the reasons, I left that job with a distaste for unions.

However, I have to admit that I think the UAW has been beneficial for the workers they represent (at least this time around). During every economic crisis, companies balance the books on the back of the employees through pay freezes, benefit cuts, layoffs, etc. When times are good, they treat the cuts as the new baseline and start from there to determine any increases, rather than returning to the previous state and negotiating from there. The result is that workers get functionally poorer while upper management gets ever-increasing compensation. I can see the benefit of the union in preserving a standard of living for the workers, and I think it would be beneficial for the workers in these Southern states.

There are plenty of arguments against unionization, such as jobs shifting to foreign countries and closing plants here, but at some point we have to treat workers as human beings and give them a reasonable standard of living, and I don’t see a better mechanism than the union. Congress certainly isn’t going to do it.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
5 months ago

You make all good points but forget
1. The stockholders take all of the risk including losing everything in a bankruptcy. I see why they cut employees who only lose future income but for time not worked
2. Yes companies when the economy turns around start from the existing market not prior market. But that is because the existing market is really where real life is. Hey can I go back to when I was 20?
Simple solution Unions should invest all money into buying voting stocks of the company. They can vote to keep pension alive or jobs alive. Instead they vote to bankrupt investors who 90% aren’t any richer than they are and keep feeding at the youth of poorly made vehicles. I.e. one recall is bad but Ford doubling up at 2.

Spikersaurusrex
Spikersaurusrex
5 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

To your point #1, yeah, stockholders risk their capital but most wouldn’t lose everything if a company went under. If they do it’s because they’ve made some stupid investment decisions.

To your point #2, yeah, I absolutely failed to consider the economy situation for the company and you make a valid point. I’ll settle for going back to 30. my 20s sucked.

To your solution of employees buying the company, I don’t think it’s realistically feasible in most cases, but it might be worth some thought.

Ford doubling down on 2 recalls… lol. My Ford already has 2 open recalls and it looks like from the article that a third is on the way.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
5 months ago

Your nice so I’ll admit it is just the viewpoint people take.its a natural human reaction. And risking your retirement in the company you work a fiscal mistake. I don’t want workers to get fired or screwed. But is it better 10% get fired or everyone a few months later? Do blue color investors deserve to lose everything so all workers stay employed not making cars? It would be nice if everyone made 6 figures, never lost their jobs, investors always made a decent income but when the economy sours someone gets screwed big time or everyone gets screwed a little. You never see unions agreeing to everyone takes a payout to keep everyone employed. The older members screw over the newer members and blame management decisions which were actually agreeing to paying members more than the economy could afford. If I was a big 3 manufacturer I would insist on any contract that union members take and pass a few economic classes.

Amschroeder5
Amschroeder5
5 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

There are many fundamental issues with your statements there about investors holding all of the risk (fundamentally untrue), and fundamentally once a company has set stock volumes, the value of the company has almost 0 actual value to the company other than appeasing those same stockholders (which is a circular argument of no merit or relevance).

But setting asside all that. One cannot be sooo incredibly shortsighted to claim that simultaneously fighting to give your boss 58B in stock options is leaning the company when it could pay for around 300 years worth of 1500 employees making 100k plus benefits, which could literally twiddle their thumbs and happen to generate extra value for the company purely in opportunity cost to competitors (assuming you didn’t want them to work). Or any combination thereof. And if you want to argue that the stock value is not actually representative of real monetary impact to the company and it’s other shareholders, then we’ll go back to the first paragraph, dont we.

(BTW, I do have a degree in economics, and degree(s) in engineering, so handwaving statements are not going to be sufficient.)

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
5 months ago
Reply to  Amschroeder5

Congratulations on your fine achievements. I have a degree in economics, business, and marketing. And your comments are wrong.

Dogisbadob
Dogisbadob
5 months ago

The UAW has too much baggage and is too greedy/unreasonable. Even other unions don’t like them. Perhaps another union could be more successful in organizing them…

However, I agree that Tesla does need a union. Maybe the IBEW can step in and organize.

Tesla in Fremont and Rivian in Normal, IL were union under their previous owners. In fact, half of Rivian’s Normal staff worked there under Mitsubishi and the UAW, yet they STILL aren’t union under Rivian. That should tell you something.

Even VW can’t get a union! Remember, VW doesn’t do the anti-union shit that Nissan and Tesla do, mostly because VW actually wants a union so they can use their works council. The NLRB ruled this illegal in the US without a union, hence VW’s lack of resistance to them.

Also, VW actually does have experience with the UAW. In fact, VW was the first UAW facility from a foreign company, Westmoreland, PA in the 70s.

The UAW demands the same pay nationwide, but that is not reasonable, since different areas have different cost of living.

Why didn’t the UAW ask for a works council? That would give them actual seats at the table.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
5 months ago
Reply to  Dogisbadob

Real manufacturers genius. Well-made argument and open minded. Too bad neither side takes this course of action.

John E
John E
5 months ago

Mexico eagerly awaits unionization in the American south.

Mark E. Post
Mark E. Post
5 months ago

Well, it was a dick move by Delaware that shouldn’t have been allowed to happen to any company.

Spikersaurusrex
Spikersaurusrex
5 months ago
Reply to  Mark E. Post

Or maybe it was a stacked board that handed out a patently unreasonable compensation package. Tomato tomahto.

Last edited 5 months ago by Spikersaurusrex
Mark E. Post
Mark E. Post
5 months ago

I agree that it’s a wackadoo incentive package, but that part is neither here nor there for a State to make judgement on.

Last edited 5 months ago by Mark E. Post
Spikersaurusrex
Spikersaurusrex
5 months ago
Reply to  Mark E. Post

Don’t forget, the state didn’t get involved until a shareholder asked them to get involved. The state didn’t initiate the suit themselves. Regulators were mute on the issue. The state was there to settle the dispute when requested and they weighed the arguments against law and precedent and made a determination.

Mark E. Post
Mark E. Post
5 months ago

Totally get that and I’m not defending Tesla or Musk specifically. More to the point is that the Court ruled against a compensation package that was no secret at all to shareholders for at least 4 years. A group of shareholders, who presumably had already made a ton of money themselves from the rise in share price, got extra greedy and sued to block it in the hopes of enriching themselves even more. Neither side was acting in anyone’s interest as a collective, but only for their own benefit.

It was a dick move, and that the Court agreed is even more surprising, considering the whole point of the legal framework in Delaware in the first place. But, hey, that’s now Delaware’s problem moving forward.

Last edited 5 months ago by Mark E. Post
Dogisbadob
Dogisbadob
5 months ago
Reply to  Mark E. Post

Check this out:
https://opposite-lock.com/topic/92813/elon-musk-s-pay-at-tesla-was-ruled-so-high/10?_=1713381749407

Elon wants 9% of Tesla’s value and 93% of 4-year profits. That is too much.

Remember: Delaware is business-friendly, designed to protect the company and its shareholders. That is totally consistent with this ruling.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/judge-rules-favor-plaintiffs-challenging-214636522.html

Quotes from the article:

[M]any of the directors on Tesla’s board, including current members Kimbal Musk, Elon Musk’s brother, and James Murdoch, son of media tycoon Rupert Murdoch, lacked independence because of their close personal ties with the CEO. Two of Tesla’s other current directors, Robyn Denholm and Ira Ehrenpreis, showed a lack of independence in the pay decision.

and

“Essentially, the entire corporate structure of Tesla has been deemed, like not appropriate for a public company,”

that’ll do it

Last edited 5 months ago by Dogisbadob
Dogisbadob
Dogisbadob
5 months ago
Reply to  Mark E. Post
My Goat Ate My Homework
My Goat Ate My Homework
5 months ago
Reply to  Mark E. Post

Delaware is very friendly to corporations. The fact that it went this way for Musk and Tesla really tells you something about how bad it was. It would have gone this way with any company that has such a clear lack of independence at the director level.

Interesting part is that they are now asking for shareholder ratification from shareholders that are losing huge amounts of money as the stock price drops and hasn’t seen a dividend ever. Oh, and Musk is also stealing talent for his other companies. Should be an interesting vote.

I wouldn’t vote for it. Musk isn’t going to leave Tesla and he’s already pretty much part-time there anyway. It’s not like he can do a lot less. (at best, maybe less is even a good thing).

Mark E. Post
Mark E. Post
5 months ago

“The fact that it went this way for Musk and Tesla really tells you something about how bad it was.”

You could be 100% correct. Or, it could be something else entirely. It’s not unheard of for courts to render decisions for more “personal” reasons. But, I don’t know enough about those people, or about any speculations on intent, to say one way or the other.

MY LEG!
MY LEG!
5 months ago
Reply to  Mark E. Post

Why exactly are you so invested in equivocating the Chancery Court’s decisions as some sort of vendetta against Musk?

I’m no lawyer but I can see that particular court is appointed by the governor instead of standing for election, to prevent such unnecessary friction such as a popular current of “elon bad” influencing decisions and costing the state money.

If you have proof that such a decision wasn’t made in an unbiased manner consistent with how any other similiar case would have decided, you need to produce it.

My Goat Ate My Homework
My Goat Ate My Homework
5 months ago
Reply to  Mark E. Post

sounds like the beginning of a good conspiracy theory.

Ryanola
Ryanola
5 months ago

You are correct, automakers spent the money to move to right to work states to avoid unions. Joining a union ensures collective bargaining for a stiff fee from paychecks that will be spent conspicuously on fraudulent activity. Oh, it’s cleaned up now, but it will be back. There’s too much of hard working, hard earned money there, like moths to a lightbulb. All for getting fucked later. Auto manufacturing will no longer be generational. All BMW, VW, MBZ, etc. need is a tiny push by unions in GA, SC, and AL to say fuck it, we’re going to Mexico where they already have a good foothold anyhow.

Tim Connors
Tim Connors
5 months ago
Reply to  Ryanola

I’m in a union. The industry I work in pays significantly better through unionized places than non-union–far more I give up by paying my dues.

“_________ have engaged in fraudulent activity.” is a sentence that could be written about any human organization ever. Corporations, churches, nonprofits, unions, sports teams, families, colleges, neighborhood organizations, etc have all had instances of fraud occur. Root out the corruption when it arises. But no one organization is more or less susceptible to fraud than another.

Drive By Commenter
Drive By Commenter
5 months ago
Reply to  Tim Connors

Hello, union brother! I’m in a union too. They’ve had a positive impact on my family’s well-being. What I pay in dues is more than saved in offsets elsewhere. Having folks around to make sure managers treat workers according to the contract is also very handy.

The Dude
The Dude
5 months ago
Reply to  Tim Connors

I work in tech so no union for me. I’m not against the idea of unionizing, though I’m not sure I’d want something super restrictive like “you were hired to do X, so you cannot in any way do Y that’s outside of your job scope”. It sounds like the UAW is that way or at least was but I’m not sure about other unions.

Admittedly I don’t know a ton about unions other than the fact that they will give the worker a voice (clearly corporations don’t have the worker’s back and neither do most politicians) to ensure better pay, working conditions, etc. and that America was a much stronger nation when union membership was high.

Last edited 5 months ago by The Dude
Tim Connors
Tim Connors
5 months ago
Reply to  The Dude

you were hired to do X, so you cannot in any way do Y that’s outside of your job scope

In my field–education–the contract just defines what this looks like in terms of pay and time. So, if I’m hired to do X and a situation comes up where I need to do Y, the contract defines what I’ll be paid or how my time will be adjusted. Sometimes that is a stipend–pretty common with a coaching position. Sometimes that is hourly pay–pretty common with curriculum development. Sometimes that is simply time–an extra prep for specific duties or time outside of the classroom for curriculum meetings. Sometimes it is time and money–pretty common for a department chair to have a lower teaching load and a stipend. This does vary district to district as each school has different needs and each local union has different priorities.

Personally, I think literally every job should have a union. Money automatically gets collective action through stockholder meetings, corporate boards. Labor (and we all labor) has to perfectly jump through 19 hoops just to formally ask for a seat at the table.

Nathan
Nathan
5 months ago
Reply to  Ryanola

Just wait until you see the stiff fees required by the Mexican cartels who will definitely spend the money on more killer drones.

Ryanola
Ryanola
5 months ago
Reply to  Nathan

That’s a whole other issue, I personally will not buy cars or other products made in MX if avoidable. Deplorable country and the pipeline for China to kill 3000+ Americans per month with fentanyl. Wasn’t endorsing Mexico, just stating facts, production will go where cheapest. With USMCA, makes it real easy choice.

MY LEG!
MY LEG!
5 months ago
Reply to  Ryanola

Going on 40 years of stagnant wages and two blow-out recessions and you’re still betting on the people who own the country to change tact without any pressure tactics. Just keep feeding those job creators tax dollars… It’ll work sometime!

If your answer is something other than centralizing labor power in unions then you should be shouting it from the rooftops.

Last edited 5 months ago by MY LEG!
The Dude
The Dude
5 months ago
Reply to  MY LEG!

Hate to break it to you, but if the Autopian was correct in a recent article, actual wages when accounting for inflation has been steadily going down the last 40 years…

What’s that saying? Oh yes, a rising tide lifts some boats.

MY LEG!
MY LEG!
5 months ago
Reply to  The Dude

Oh, I’m well aware. I’m just being gracious about the failure of “supply-side economics” instead of going for the jugular. The facts don’t need to be rushed in.

Johnny Anxiety
Johnny Anxiety
5 months ago
Reply to  Ryanola

Find it spurious how you come here with that ancient talking point yet provide no alternative to the dreaded workers organizing for themselves.

Ryanola
Ryanola
5 months ago
Reply to  Johnny Anxiety

Alternative is to find a new job that pays better if they don’t like the working conditions. There’s this magic thing called night school where you can elevate yourself to a better pay scale. Employees telling the employer what they demand to be paid is rather upside down. Market rate would probably be much lower without the unions sucking off their corrupt blood money. Same thing with fast food wokers. Stepping stone, not career.

Johnny Anxiety
Johnny Anxiety
5 months ago
Reply to  Ryanola

Keep licking that boot. You’ll never get to wear it but I hope you enjoy taste.

Ryanola
Ryanola
5 months ago
Reply to  Johnny Anxiety

LOL, is that the best response you could come up with? Guilty as charged, I guess, being a person who used entry level jobs to support myself while educating my way into a professional career and success above someone telling me what to do all day and being beholden to a union or large corporation. You showed me.

VanGuy
VanGuy
5 months ago

but Tesla is important and it’s important we aren’t blinded to that because its CEO is a dingus.

“The best defense against libel is telling the truth.”

Arch Duke Maxyenko
Arch Duke Maxyenko
5 months ago

Mr. Krabs just wants money, in spite of laying off 10% of Tesla’s workforce and refusing to make the affordable smaller EV in favor of lies of Robotaxi’s and overhyped demand of Cybertrucks.

The Dude
The Dude
5 months ago

He needs money to keep the dumpster fire known as Twitter afloat.

Username Loading...
Username Loading...
5 months ago

Re: Musk, I simply can’t believe the audacity to request the biggest paycheck in history given the current situation. Demand for Teslas is stagnating, they are a growth company with no growth as such the stock has been in steady decline. They are laying off over 10% of the work force, delaying what would have been their most compelling product in the pipeline, all while Musk is spread too thin between all of his companies. How with all of this was the most important thing to bring before the board your obscene compensation package?

Brian Ash
Brian Ash
5 months ago

I think his plan to bring growth back is charge all the customers of the non-Tesla EVs that got suckered into his charging standard 2-3x the price for using the super network. This may also drive demand back to Tesla EVs as they are the only ones being charged a reasonable price. If this is not the plan, EM your welcome for the idea.

Also anyone see that they are supposedly changing FSD to $99 monthly sub?

Livinglavidadidas
Livinglavidadidas
5 months ago
Reply to  Brian Ash

Why suckered? Is it not a good standard in terms of engineering? Does everyone going to that standard prevent other parties from getting involved in the charging game? Genuine questions no snark intended

Brian Ash
Brian Ash
5 months ago

Suckered cause they trusted him. In all seriousness when everyone months ago started cutting deals, my curiosity was the deal/contract details if protections were there so he couldn’t screw them over. Aligning to another companies standard regardless of superiority rarely goes without some sort of future spat.

Highly doubt the deals stipulate non-Tesla customers being charged a higher price, without that it’s very likely to happen.

Mark E. Post
Mark E. Post
5 months ago
Reply to  Brian Ash

Except it is superior, hence everyone switching to it. Other automakers see the Betamax writing on the wall.

Brian Ash
Brian Ash
5 months ago
Reply to  Mark E. Post

That’s fine but with Tesla stock and future not looking so great, super charger revenue could help and with all Tesla’s constant pricing games, they could perhaps charge non-Tesla’s higher rates just cause he can.

Over half of his shares are collateral for personal loans, at higher share prices than today, which can prompt him to do crazy things to maintain his wealth. Which was the point, risk of aligning to HIS standard.

Mark E. Post
Mark E. Post
5 months ago
Reply to  Brian Ash

Doesn’t change the fact that it’s their proprietary standard and they can charge what they want to license it out. Not all that different from any other company in any other industry.

The fact that Musk may or may not be over-leveraged isn’t the point.

Col Lingus
Col Lingus
5 months ago

Get off my ass man. I have another space ship to build, and it’s not like I can get spare parts at Home Depot. Screw off…/s your friend, Elon

Chronometric
Chronometric
5 months ago

Mitski applying for the job as Republican Speaker of the House is definitely depressing. Your daughter should be concerned.

Ottomottopean
Ottomottopean
5 months ago

…it does raise some risk for workers south of the Mason-Dixon Line.

I prefer the name, “Manson–Nixon Line.” Credit to the genius, Robin Williams for giving us that.

Last edited 5 months ago by Ottomottopean
Mike B
Mike B
5 months ago

Meanwhile, as quoted from a Wa Po article on this subject, ‘Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear (D), whose state faces a UAW organizing effort at a Toyota factory in Georgetown, said on social media last week that unions have raised workers’ standard of living and that he was “proud to stand shoulder-to-shoulder” with the UAW.’

Republicans once again demonstrate how they’re the “party of the working class” /s/ by continuing to do the bidding of the corporate donors.

Last edited 5 months ago by Mike B
OFFLINE
OFFLINE
5 months ago

Tesla CEO Elon Musk probably doesn’t care what I think, which is good because I’m one of those people who loved the old Twitter and knows enough about Musk to not be amused by his antics.

You preferred the Twitter that was actively censoring information that didn’t conform to the current administration’s narrative? Interesting hill to die on.

OFFLINE
OFFLINE
5 months ago
Reply to  Matt Hardigree

Okay, I see the cats thing. But I’m not seeing anywhere near the amount of antisemitism as say… Harvard.

Mechjaz
Mechjaz
5 months ago
Reply to  Matt Hardigree

Meowmers!

(I imagine this would have been the “jinkies!” equivalent had Scooby Doo been a cat. If nothing else, I use it like that.)

Drew
Drew
5 months ago
Reply to  OFFLINE

That’s…not really what was happening, and the current policies aren’t really the free speech paradise claimed.

Really, though, we’re seeing dead internet theory come to pass on all the social media, so it’s a matter of picking your poison. None of them are good. Facebook is particularly bad right now, since they pay pages for engagement, so bots making content for bots is worth money.

OFFLINE
OFFLINE
5 months ago
Reply to  Drew

No, that”s exactly what happened. Really. I don’t care what “side” you’re on, this ain’t good. See: https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1598822959866683394?lang=en

OFFLINE
OFFLINE
5 months ago
Reply to  Matt Hardigree

Okay. I don’t have your cat.

Ben
Ben
5 months ago
Reply to  OFFLINE

I feel like this post is the best possible outcome of this thread. 🙂

Crank Shaft
Crank Shaft
5 months ago
Reply to  Matt Hardigree

Oops, I fucked up. Sorry.

Crank Shaft
Crank Shaft
5 months ago
Reply to  OFFLINE

Change the channel. Otherwise you might start to believe Joe Biden is a super-genius who controls everything with elaborate networks of deep state operatives carrying out decades long plans to destroy the very country in which they live so that it can be taken over by brown people who eat white babies, all while presenting himself as an earnest old man not bent on revenge for every single perceived slight and who doesn’t seem to despise every single soul who doesn’t worship the very ground upon which he dodders. Or not.

Mark E. Post
Mark E. Post
5 months ago
Reply to  Crank Shaft

That channel sounds awesome!

Mark Jacob
Mark Jacob
5 months ago
Reply to  OFFLINE

As opposed to the current censoring of information that doesn’t confirm to Ol’ Musky’s brand of hatred and bigotry? GTFO

OFFLINE
OFFLINE
5 months ago
Reply to  Mark Jacob

I don’t have your cat either. Really.

Jack Trade
Jack Trade
5 months ago

That hood scoop cracks me up, as a I own a prime SN95 (New Edge) Mustang which is as gingerbreaded out by the factory as possible with fake scoops. Even has the same fake honeycomb insert as here.

But mine has never faced a detachment problem. The one on the hood is, I believe, bolted on.

Jdoubledub
Jdoubledub
5 months ago

Many of these states have gotten nicer and the standard of living has improved, thanks in part to the investment in tax incentives by these state governments that brought these companies.”

I need a citation on that.

Ottomottopean
Ottomottopean
5 months ago
Reply to  Jdoubledub

In my state of GA you would really need to understand the area where the KIA plant is in central/south GA. There is absolutely nothing else out there. Or at least there wasn’t. Now Newnan, GA is considered a suburb of Atlanta and really is quite large and growing.

Bringing these companies in has definitely had an enormous, positive impact that far outweighs the costs of the tax incentives. In many of these areas there was zero or near zero tax dollars coming in. Now there are thousands of high(er) paying jobs in an area of the state that was mostly rural farming and some light industrial work. All those new jobs and higher salaries are paying taxes on those incomes. This is definitely a NET positive for the state and those living in that area.

Ottomottopean
Ottomottopean
5 months ago
Reply to  Matt Hardigree

Yeah, I’m hoping it still happens. For everyone involved…

Ranwhenparked
Ranwhenparked
5 months ago
Reply to  Ottomottopean

A tax break for something that just wouldn’t exist at all without a tax break isn’t really a cost, it’s possibly forgoing revenue, but isn’t adding an expense, and it’s forgoing revenue only on the assumption that there would still be a project to tax, but there likely wouldn’t be if the next state over chose to offer an incentive package instead

EmotionalSupportBMW
EmotionalSupportBMW
5 months ago
Reply to  Ranwhenparked

There is a cost though. Some sort of municipal government be it city, town, county, and sometimes state is usually on the hook for developing the infrastructure to support the factory (i.e water, power and big one being roads). Plus you have to increase all the services for a increased population without a major source of municipal income (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-29/the-real-cost-of-luring-big-companies-to-town). Overall, luring companies tends to offer a sort term high, however long term its difficult to make sustainable.

Ranwhenparked
Ranwhenparked
5 months ago

Yeah, but you have to do a cost/benefit, if the alternative is just nothing happens at all, and there’s more economic activity going on than just corporate income tax and property tax on the factory that all has to be added up. At any rate, it pretty well always makes better financial sense than using public money for sports stadiums, at the very least

Luxobarge
Luxobarge
5 months ago
Reply to  Jdoubledub

Yeah, I am very skeptical about the cause-effect of this. It’s certainly too complex an economic issue to settle in the comments section of a car website, though.

Last edited 5 months ago by Luxobarge
Drew
Drew
5 months ago

You don’t need a hood scoop on a Bronco Sport.

Or on a Tacoma or anything else that isn’t actually pulling air through it. Admittedly, the stick on is worse than the fake one built into the Tacoma hood, but there’s no need for either.

OverlandingSprinter
OverlandingSprinter
5 months ago
Reply to  Drew

Fake hood scoops on off-road vehicles are so disappointing. How else is the water supposed to get in to the engine when fording streams?

Mike B
Mike B
5 months ago
Reply to  Drew

My 4Runner has the fake scoop. It looks cool, but the glare off that thing is blinding at certain times of the day. I keep thinking I need to get around to wrapping the center of the hood with a matte vinyl.

Ben
Ben
5 months ago
Reply to  Mike B

That sounds infuriating. How do automakers keep shipping vehicles with reflective surfaces in view of the driver? That should be one of the 10 commandments of car design.

Man With A Reliable Jeep
Man With A Reliable Jeep
5 months ago
Reply to  Ben

The NHTSA is too busy mandating things that increase the cost of vehicles, not their actual safety and functionality.

Alexk98
Alexk98
5 months ago

That Bronco Sport Hood Scoop might be the single tackiest thing I’ve seen from an OEM in a while. Then again, if it’s flying off at speed, maybe the adhesive isn’t all that tacky after all

Alexk98
Alexk98
5 months ago
Reply to  Alexk98

Seriously though, We often joke here about Ford Quality issues, but how in the world does a company with the resources and size of Ford fail at damn near every single product they put out? I mean seriously, the recharging system for the 12V system, and this many model years in? Fake hood scoops detaching? It’s not like for has never installed a stick on vent on a car before. Is this the company cost cutting the ever loving hell out of every product to make performance as marginal as possible, or is this just such sloppy process control that every single design is no more than half baked?

Rad Barchetta
Rad Barchetta
5 months ago
Reply to  Alexk98

They tried to save money and use the 2M tape.

Matt Sexton
Matt Sexton
5 months ago
Reply to  Rad Barchetta

It’s the third M that turns out to be the expensive one.

V10omous
V10omous
5 months ago
Reply to  Matt Sexton

Manufacturing?

Paul E
Paul E
5 months ago
Reply to  V10omous

Naan, Minnesota.

V10omous
V10omous
5 months ago
Reply to  Paul E

That’s the first one

Sensual Bugling Elk
Sensual Bugling Elk
5 months ago
Reply to  V10omous

Dare I ask what the second M is?

Rob Schneider
Rob Schneider
5 months ago

Mining, actually.

Double Wide Harvey Park
Double Wide Harvey Park
5 months ago
Reply to  V10omous

Muality

Spikersaurusrex
Spikersaurusrex
5 months ago
Reply to  Alexk98

As a proud Ford owner, I would say quality is job 11 on an assembly line with 10 stations. I.E. they forgot to put it in.

Spikersaurusrex
Spikersaurusrex
5 months ago
Reply to  Alexk98

How would you know it’s a “Sport” without a hood scoup?

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