Robotaxis like those being operated by companies like Waymo, Zoox, and Tesla are pretty remarkable machines, when you think about it. While they’re far from perfect, these automated vehicles do perform the fundamentals of the task of driving with a competency that was nearly impossible to imagine even a single decade ago. And yet, in many situations, they still suck. Sometimes dramatically. But even leaving the actual process of driving aside, there are still other aspects where automated vehicles are struggling, and these situations and conditions are a reminder that a taxi has never been just about a vehicle that takes you from one place to another. There are more demands on the job that a human taxi driver performs, and they’re not always obvious.
A recent Bloomberg article highlights some of these issues, which include everything from people leaving messes in cars to riders leaving without closing doors (requiring companies to, hilariously, hire DoorDash drivers to come and close the damn doors) to the perhaps not-so-surprising issue of rousing sleeping passengers from cars.
The Bloomberg article notes how common the sleeping passenger situation is by mentioning that Austin police and firefighters have a nickname for it:
So many robotaxi customers have nodded off in the midst of a ride that Austin police and firefighters even have a name for the incidents: “sleepers.” The Texas capital recorded 99 such calls in Waymo’s first nine months of service there, said Roger Patterson, a commander with Austin-Travis County Emergency Medical Services.
I’m not sure calling sleeping people “sleepers” really even qualifies as a clever nickname, though. That just feels like the first thing you’d think to call them?
All of these issues stem, of course, from the fact that the human being who once captained a cab has been replaced by a bunch of printed circuit boards and a lot of software that in no way inhibits a human passenger from behaving in ways that are, perhaps, less than fully socially acceptable.
The truth is that, like a scary narcissistic dad, we all behave quite differently in the presence of other people than we do when we are alone, or when we are in what we consider to be a private space as opposed to a public space. A rideshare car like a Waymo is in a strange, blurry space when it comes to its status as public or private. If you’re alone in a Waymo or Tesla Cybercab or Zoox, it’s not that different than if you are alone in a strange, small room somewhere, only in these cases the room isn’t yours, it’s moving through a city on public roads, and it has windows all over it.
The thing is, of course, you’re not really alone. In all of these robotaxis, you’re being monitored remotely via cameras and microphones. That’s how, if you fall asleep in a Waymo after your ride, remote assistants can attempt to wake your ass up by, I suppose, yelling at you, but if this fails to rouse you, then those remote assistants have to treat every incident of a non-responsive passenger as a medical emergency, because what the hell else can they do?
A human cab driver, of course, would be able to wake you and get you out of the car, and could (likely) determine if you needed actual medical help. Of course, humans are unpredictable, so it’s also possible an unscrupulous cabbie could just drag you out of the car and leave you by a dumpster as you struggle to breathe or whatever, so perhaps there is some advantage to a more regimented system like what automated taxi companies use.
There’s a lot more that a human presence does in a cab, too. Most people are a lot less likely to leave messes in a taxi if there’s a driver present, though wildcard messy events like vomiting can still happen, of course. Though, with a human driver, there’s a better chance you could scream PULL OVER PULL OVER I’M GONNA PUKE OH GOD I’M GONNA PUKE NO NO NO WHY HUNNGHHHULLGHHNGGH and hopefully they’d make it to the side of the road in time so you can open the door and yop, lavishly.
If you do make a mess in a robotaxi, you’ll get charged for it. Here’s Tesla’s Cybercab mess rules/charges, for example:
Why was I charged a cleaning fee?
We prioritize maintaining a clean and comfortable environment for all riders and promoting responsible rider behavior. To address incidents where vehicles require additional cleaning after a trip, we will assess the type and severity of the mess and apply the appropriate fee:
-
$50: Charged for moderate messes, such as food spills, significant dirt and minor stains
-
$150: Charged for severe messes, such as biowaste or smoking in the vehicle
Biowaste. Eww.
Though, I suppose it’s good to know how much it’d cost you to take a healthy, loamy dump in a Cybercab in case you wanted to work that into your budget or save up for an anniversary or birthday gift.
All of these issues stem from, of course, the fact that a taxi is really not just a vehicle. The human in the taxi does more than just drive the cab, even if those other tasks performed aren’t always obvious. Remember the incident where a couple of creepy dudes blocked a Waymo and harassed the women inside?
????Warning to women in SF ????
I love Waymo but this was scary ????
2 men stopped in front of my car and demanded that I give my number.
It left me stuck as the car was stalled in the street.
Thankfully, it only lasted a few minutes…
Ladies please be aware of this pic.twitter.com/6VEqb1WoJb
— Amina (@Amina_io) September 30, 2024
That was pretty messed up, and likely would not have happened if there was a human being driving that taxi.
None of what is happening here is a technological problem. It’s a human problem, and in that sense is a sort of mirror reflecting the bigger issues of recent technological changes and developments, especially regarding AI. All manner of technological advancements are being made, but there seems to be very little thought given to the human repercussions of these technological changes, which often have cultural impacts not planned or even considered by those pushing these new technologies.
There’s no question these self-driving cars are impressive. But they’re also not the complete solution to this problem, because like anything that involves human beings, there’s a lot of subtleties and gray areas and unpredictable aspects to it. We’re not cargo that can be neatly shipped around in a robot. We’re messy, stupid, emotional, beautiful, drippy beings, full of fluids and feelings and bad ideas and remarkable abilities to sleep anywhere. We can engineer humans out of a system, but if that system is still designed to serve humans (not in the Twilight Zone way, just the normal way), then it’s very likely there will still be a need for actual humans in the loop.
I’m sure there are cultures, ones with a more collective focus, that can likely behave like mature adults in automated taxis and refrain from filling the cars full of trash and soaking the carpets in urine and at least trying to stay awake. But I’m not so sure that’s us.
It’s like my daily transit train ride except worse because you pay much more and it really doesn’t solve anything…but we all knew that already. Mass transit is a much better option. This “taxi” is just being used like a less useful bus.
Utter BS.
No, we didn’t “…all knew that already…”
No bus will drop the passenger in front of the exact location they want to get to, for every passenger riding them.
Been the fundamental difference between mass transit and taxis since the 17th century or so, if looking at modern history. Whether it’s a horse carriage or a self-driving car the difference stands the same.
I disagree in that much of what a Robotaxi experience is being described is exactly like the bus. The delivery to a location of your choosing is the only difference, but compared to a normal Uber/Taxi with driver the experience sounds so much worse. At least with one of those the person driving can kick you out/clean up or something else.
I’ll just list off some very similar things I find between the robotaxi experience and bus.
If that is the basis for comparison – then the robotaxis still beat mass transportation, as they manage to do as badly unmanned as the buses do manned 🙂
My experience with Waymo has been much better than with Uber / Lyft / Taxi.
The problem with mass transit in the US is that we built up our cities around the car.
Let’s look at the UK for an example. Leeds is the biggest UK city that doesn’t have light rail. The population density for the greater Leeds area is about 900 people per sq. km. This isn’t dense enough to support a light rail system for the area.
The most populated Greater city areas in the US are
NYC (1200 per km2)
LA (1450 per km2)
Chicago (340)
Houston (1150)
Phoenix (312)
I can keep going, but there are few cities in the US with a Population density in the greater area that are above Leeds.
Simply put, the combination of cheap cars and cheap land in the 20th century allowed US cities to be built out instead of up. As a result, we don’t have a high enough population density in many if not the majority of cities to support significant mass transit.
There is no easy solution to this. Even if we tore down single family houses and put in apartments, the places of work are scattered to the 4 winds in most cities because of suburban sprawl anyway.
Completely agree. All my friends in urban planning agree, but at least some cities are starting to shift things.
There is a shift going on with younger workers wanting to be in more compact, pedestrian friendly areas. However, we will see what happens when they start raising kids and if the dream of a single family home with a privacy fence becomes too appealing.
True in advertising, I’ve had single family homes nearly all my life. But as a Gen Xer, going downtown was a good place to get mugged or worse when I was a kid, both in entertainment and real life.
Wow, what completely obvious problems that could have been predicted by anyone
Sure they have signed contracts to get priority for checking the DNA in bio-waste…oops, just checked it was with Theranos….
How much for a bean fart left in the car? Not even sure if you can wind the windows down….
The trouble with public transport is always the public part.
I think all of this stems from tech bros being convinced that the “servant” class of people they interact with (everything from cab drivers (or Uber, whatever), baristas, servers, basically anyone who isn’t a tech bro) are performing useless jobs that can be done away with by technology. I believe this is in part because these bros have never done a service job and have no idea what is actually involved and in part because they assume they are so smart they can solve anything with technology that can do no wrong.
100%
I’ve been some flavor of software developer for 30 years, and I credit my first job as a busboy and a dishwasher at the only fancy restaurant in Oldtown, Idaho as a sort of inoculation against becoming this particular type of tech bro.
What a daft notion. The number of jobs in human history that _haven’t_ been automated are a rounding error. People try to automate jobs because that’s the process that has meant we aren’t all peasants, up to our knees in mud in the middle of a field.
I think you took the wrong impression from my comment. I’m not saying we shouldn’t automate things. I’m saying that automating things you think don’t have value without investigating is a really dumb idea.
So true, so true.
I’m assuming a couple of pornos have been filmed in these already
Or watched and “participated” with in the cab.
Based on what I’ve, uh, you know, seen out there on the Internet, this has been a thing since:
– “Full Self Driving”
– cruise control
– a relatively keen ability to isolate your right foot from other motion
I’ve seen the thumbnails. They terrify me; it’s like when you’re watching a horror movie and they’re pulled in really tight on someone’s face, showing a lot of the view through the window: you know something horrible is about to happen. Obviously it’s unlikely to have made it online if that were the case but still. No thank you good day.
It’s been a thing since about 1915. So basically ‘cars’.
all of this is just exhaustingly stupid.
Which company uses those gold 2 doors like in the top image? I passed a whole truckload of them heading north on I-81 in PA a couple days ago.
Tesla
Tesla and the redundantly named Robotaxi Cybercab
Also the name of my least favorite Harry Potter fanfic.
lol
So THAT’S why the taxi’s in Total Recall had a disembodied torso and head in the front of the cab! It’s all coming together now!
Is that why Musky wants to get his ass to Mars so bad?
I’d be happy if he was there already like he promised.
You leave Total Recall out of this! That movie was a saint!
A waterproof interior with several high-pressure water nozzles seems like the solution to many of the problems listed here.
Paging Honda Element
Do you mean the legendary Honda Element, with the interior that can be safely and easily hosed out?
So… basically the back seat of a police car?
Might be time to implement a social credit system. You can ride the nice, pleather-appointed robotaxis until you accrue two biowaste incidents in a 24-month period, and then it’s hard plastic and a hundred fifty dollar deposit before every ride for you.
Once I read “loamy” I knew who wrote this.
I was fine with the content until I read “loamy”. ugh, dunno why that description specifically made me sick about it.
I think I know what he is getting for his birthday present this year.
It certainly got a good laugh out of me, and I learned a new terrible description.
One of the best things about this site is that if the author wasn’t listed, you’d still know who wrote every article.
He does describe things rather lavishly, doesn’t he.
It’s especially fun if you’re slowly catching up on Discworld. Ankh-Morpork is built on loam.
So they can’t close their own doors or wake you up, but they can deliver you to the cops if they think you’re being a little naughty? I see where their priorities lie.
Smelly cab, smelly cab, what a-hole peed in you?
Smelly cab, smelly cab, it’s not your fault.
They always hail you from the bar
You’re obviously not their favorite car
You may not be a bed of roses
They have to clean you out with hoses
C-thread-OTD
>Though, I suppose it’s good to know how much it’d cost you to take a healthy, loamy dump in a Cybercab in case you wanted to work that into your budget or save up for an anniversary or birthday gift.
Just in case this article wasn’t Torch enough.
it’s the “loamy” that truly is the pickled herring on top.
I worry about his fiber intake. Or lack thereof?
I’ve definitely realized over the years, going to automotive conferences, that most of the engineering work in the industry is for dealing with people.
Engineering for technical specifications- potentially difficult but doable.
Engineering for people and their unpredictive behaviors- just about impossible.
Impossible to make something foolproof because fools are so ingenius.
People not closing the doors is a solved problem, every sliding-door minivan still on the market offers powered doors as a factory option and it can’t take much code to allow the self-driving system to operate it.
The BMW 7 Series, and some Chinese EVs, have automatic normal doors too now.
How long before someone decides these are cheaper than an ambulance ride and the taxi delivers more than a “sleeper”. Like very asleep.
“Please don’t wake my friend. He’s dead tired”
“I need a ride to the morgue
That’s what 9-1-1 is for
So tag my toe and don’t forget
Ooh, to close the drawer” – Megadeth
Missed opportunity for “Ooh, to close the door”
I was not expecting a Commando reference today, but here we are. Thanks!
Remember when I said I’d kill you last?
I Lied.
You’re a funny guy, helps me let off some steam
Or cheaper than a babysitter and chucks a child in there for a few hours with enough waypoints to give the parent time for a nap… Not that I’ve ever considered this… ever… OK, maybe once… once a week…
DT furiously taking notes for his next big wrenching project.
“Put the baby in a self-driving PowerWheels to ride around the yard!”
DoorDash or door bash, it’s an open and shut case.
Who knew DoorDash would be so appropriately named?
Perfection!
As I recall, JohnnyCab handled sleeping passengers just fine.
I’m not familiar with that address. Would you please repeat the destination? Please state a street and number!
You know those massage chairs they have in the mall where you pay $2 for like 5 mins of rollers and vibrators making your back and neck feel worse rather than better? Have you ever just sat in one of those without slipping any dollars in? You can sit there for about 2 or 3 minutes but then it extends all of its rollers and literally pushes you out of the damn chair. Robotaxis could do this same thing, we have the technology!
I didn’t know those have a “kick people out” feature. Whenever I see them, there’s always people just sitting in them playing on their phone, it’s never turned on, and I wondered how those things possibly make any money.
I actually saw the “solution” at the airport not too long ago. It was a glass box that had one of those massage chairs, as well as a little desk, outlets, ect, but you had to pay to unlock the door and you could choose how much time you wanted. But what if you overstay your time? Does it deploy tear gas or a cattle prod from the chair to motivate you to leave?
Neurotoxin. Courtesy of GLaDOS.
And then they call a DoorDash driver to deal with the body.
They charge the credit card before termination, of course. Added $150 fee.
I know what I’m doing on the next long layover I have at the airport. How many people can say they’ve been kicked out of every massage chair in the entire terminal?
“You can sit there for about 2 or 3 minutes but then it extends all of its rollers and literally pushes you out of the damn chair”
I’ve never tried doing that. But I’ll have to at some point.
I’m almost certain the captains of the tech industry and business consider ‘People’ inconveniences to distract from the ‘Line Go Up’ thing.
Which makes one wonder if these captains are even human themselves.
It’s all about greed and making the most money.
Greed plus ambition minus ethics minus empathy.
I genuinely believe that these people have a hard time seeing anyone not in their peer group as actual human beings.
I don’t think they see their peers as human beings either tbh
Only their fellow creeps at their island parties.
I think they believe they are beings that have moved beyond being human.
This is why I believe nepotism is toxic to society. So many billionaires got where they are today not through hard work or smart investing, but through generational wealth.
It’s easy to win the rat race when you are allowed to start 2/3 laps ahead of the rest of the group.
So you’re saying that Tech-Bros have no idea how the real world works?
No kiddin’?
Need to find a way for the taxi company to display an AI-powered video screen with the rider’s mother watching and commenting disapprovingly when shenanigans start to take place.
This is an appropriate use of AI I can get behind! Also could add an escalation matrix that calls your actual mother should things escalate too far.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen poop described as ‘loamy’ before. Bravo!
Are you new here?
I guess I’m just inattentive?
I detailed cars for over 15 years and knew messes would be a problem the minute these taxis hit the roads. So many people treat their own car, that they paid for with their hard earned money, like a dumpster on wheels. If that’s how they are in their own car, imagine how gross they’re gonna leave driverless taxis.
People at work think it’s “sad” that I often drive by myself when there’s a group lunch event off-site. I’ve been here over 19 years, and I still don’t have the heart (or the nerve) to tell them that their cars are NASTY. No, I don’t think it’s cute or funny that the backside of my pants located that piece of string cheese your grandkid misplaced two weeks ago.
I’ll add that I trust approximately 3 of my coworkers to get from point A to point B safely, and approximately 0 to do so smoothly.
Probably 50% of people I’ve ridden in a car with seem to think the gas and brake pedals are binary, on/off items. To the point even driving on the highway, it’s this rythmic cycle of accelerate, let off, accelerate, let off, endlessly. Like you know you could just hold your foot steady at 10% throttle? Or set the cruise?
Then when it comes to braking it’s a series of hard jabs at the brake, as if they’re not sure what’s going to happen when they push the pedal. I actually said something once about this and the “reason” was they believed this would save on brake pads vs smoothly/continuously braking, since they were “using” the brakes for less overall time.
Yes! It’s both maddening and infuriating.
The last time I rode somewhere with a coworker, I’m not sure which scared me more…their car or their driving. You don’t typically hear sounds like that from a Lexus.
Haha, full disclosure, I am one of those gross people. Except I’m not subjecting others to it. I will drive one person in my front passenger seat, but I refuse to ask another adult to sit in my backseat. No one but my feral kids need to be subjected to the cheeto dust, Z-bar wrappers, and SAND (omg so much sand even in winter) back there.
My husband keeps his trucks immaculate and sometimes I throw trash on the floor of my brand new Volvo just to annoy him.
I hate removing car seats for any reason because of this. The last time I pulled one out, it kicked off 30 minutes of OCD cleaning because of the filth. At least my front seats are clean!
When I was in my teens and 20s, my best friend’s car was always a dumpster. I mean, trash and possessions piled to the height of the front passenger seat and back seats. But we always took her car it seemed. Probably because we both smoke, but I never allowed smoking in my car. I was immune to the mess, but was always amused at the expressions of new passengers as we dug out the back seat for them and took armfuls of stuff to cram in the trunk.